What should I expect from my new carbon bike?

richard36

I decided to get a Focus Cayo 105 from Wiggle. It was to replace my only road bike which is one sold by SJS Cycles, a number of years ago I believe. It has a steel frame, sora groupset and rigida nova rims. It's the only road bike I've had.

I'm reasonably happy with my old bike but thought a carbon bike with a better groupset, wheels etc would offer so much more. To be honest I'm quite disappointed. The 105 shifting is very smooth and quiet and feels better than the sora shifting but I've not really noticed anything different with the ride/handling.

I did 65 miles on the Focus yesterday and wasn't really blown away by the bike. I can't say it was better ride than my old bike and didn't notice any real improvement when climbing.

I can return the bike to Wiggle but wonder whether I should perservere. As I have little experience with road bikes it would help if someone could tell me what I can expect from the Focus. What is a £1000 Focus Cayo going to give me that my old bike won't?

Thanks

loveaduck

It sounds like you don't like your bike if your asking these questions. A bike should give you the WOW factor and yours clearly isn't.

Send it back and look around for something that makes your heart skip or stick with it and grow to love it (or hate it). Only you can decide as your the one that is going to have to live with it.

Sorry not much help :oops:

turnerjohn

sounds like your old bike werent to bad to start with....unless it was totally worn out ?!
The Focus is a good bike and very good value for money.
105 should last longer and shift better then your old sora.
As for the ride its a hard one to quantify. Steel frames (well good steel frames) ride similar to carbon in bump removal. However riden hard (sprinting especially) the carbon will be stiffer and more 'direct'....depends what your riding style is like ? If your more a taking it easy kind of rider your probably not notice a huge difference.
Maybe the Focus needs tweeking for setup ?

richard36

Thanks loveaduck

I do like the bike. It's very shiny and new with very nice components but can I justify spending £1000 on a bike that doesn't seem to offer me that much more than my existing bike in terms of how it rides?

My question I suppose is whether I'm being unrealistic or whether I should be noticing a big difference between an old steel framed bike and a new carbon framed bike?

Cheers

father_jack

Give you fifty quid for it )

loveaduck

Richard36 If you can afford it, then there is no problem with how much the bike costs. If you like the look, then that is great.

If your not happy with how it feels you can always send it back and try other bikes and see how they compare, then you can either repurchase the bike or get something different.

The main thing is, what makes you happy. It took me a while to get used to my Dawes. It looked gorgeous but felt like i was riding a camel falling down stairs, after a few trips to the shops for parts i really love my little Giro.

Do what makes you happy

(i'm a woman so you have to do what i say )

meanredspider

I think if you gave it a few months and then went back to your old bike, you'd notice the difference. Sometimes you need to learn to appreciate the difference.

That said, a friend of mine had an issue with his Trek Madone 5.whatever and has borrowed a relatively cheap CUBE. He did a club time trial and was only a tiny bit slower. I'm sure, though, that he wouldn't swap.

I love my Cayo - better than my Variado

gaddster

I have the same bike as you and the bike I went to it from wasn't bad, have to say that I love the new one. I find it really motors and I can certainly notice the benefit going uphill. Is it setup correctly for you?

Anonymous

It could just be you've hyped your new bike up in your own head too much.

Have you still got your old bike?

Would be interesting to see what you thought after a riding the two back to back.

richard36

As meanredspider has said I may not really notice any difference until I've ridden the Focus for longer and then go back to my old bike.

I'm not going to use the bike for 'racing' but mainly for long sportive type rides.

I was going to go for the Ribble New Sportive but thought I had better go for the Focus just in case I wanted to return it.

Is it possible for different makes of bike with similar geometry to give different rides? If so then whilst I've not been blown away by the Focus I could be happier with something like the Ribble New Sportive.

Thanks

chrishd883

Sorry to disagree with any other posts here,
but in my experience steel frames respond very well to rider input
and any carbon road bike at the grand price mark will still have a low end to average carbon frame.

I'm a big Cannondale fan - own a couple!?!?!? Alu CAAD8 (USA) & Synapse.
Despite being in the same price bracket / spec the older aluminium CAAD 8 is a much more responsive and enjoyable ride. The carbon synapse is a good bike, absorbs bumps better, etc.But for the hilly rides, long rides, or just for pure fun, I take the Caad 8.

My only experience of steel road bikes is a £500 S/s bike and that was a good ride.

By all accounts the top end carbon frames are very good.
Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to ride a top end Cannondale, Cervelo, etc!

Return the bike to Wiggle? Think long and hard.
Do some back to back rides on the different bikes?
The differences can be subtle.
But ultimately you don't want to spend £1,000 and feel disappointed!

mattward1979

As said above, a new bike should put an embarrassing bulge in your bibs when you take it out... and you seem entirely underwhelmed!

I remember upgrading from a LBS MTB to a spesh allez... It was like Jesus himself had crafted me a machine with which to cycle the world on!! After said thing of beauty was stolen, the insurance paid for a Raleigh Avanti U6.. and again this was a huge revelation to me in terms of speed, comfort and handling.

If I were you, I would do a 30 mile loop on the Cayo, then the same loop the next day on your old bike. If you REALLY cannot justify the upgrade, send it back.

Nothing worse than a bike going to waste!

richard36

Thanks for your posts. They are really appreciated.

I will ride the Focus a few more times then go out on the old bike and see if there is a significant difference.

Thanks especially chrishd883 for your post. What you say about the 'low end' carbon frame is interesting.

The Focus certainly got some approving looks from the guys I ride with but if I'm going to spend a £1000 I want something that is going to be a real joy to ride day after day.

chrishd883

Different frames will handle differently - some of that would be down to geometry.

Nobody can say what bike you would be happiest with - that's personal and subjective.

It's been said many times that there are no bad bikes at the grand price mark.
And I agree up to a point - if you limit that to road bikes.
Bought a Tricross X-cross a couple of years ago - never really taken to it & wouldn't buy another Specialized bike because of it!!

Focus and Ribble have been selling bikes for a while now - usually get good reviews - FWIW
Cube seem to be gaining in popularity and - despite the Halfords connection - so do Boardman's.

So much choice! Bit of a nightmare really - unless you have access to test rides.

gaddster

haha low end carbon frame. I'm loving mine to pieces.

rolf_f

Even my heavy old tourer doesn't get me to work more than a few minutes behind my carbon Ribble. Ultimately, performance is mostly about the rider. Changing to another bike of the same price point might make a difference but probably not. And the likes of Ribble won't let you return it just because you don't like it.

Give it a bit more time. Personally, I like carbon and steel bikes (I have two of each!) - I avoid alloy (no soul in an alloy bike ).

chrishd883

gaddster quote " haha low end carbon frame. I'm loving mine to pieces"

Don't misunderstand - a grand is a lot of money for a bicycle.
It took me 2 years - from my first test ride - to actually spend that on a bike!
Everybody I ride with have bikes at that price point and we all enjoy our bikes.
But if you buy a £400 bike you might get carbon forks!
Shortly after buying my R800 in 2004 I emailed a local cycle club.
This CAAD8 was a frame used in the TdF only 4 /5 years previously.
I was told not too worry about it, my bike "would be OK"!?!?!?!?

Just Google Dogma, or one of the Cervelo's!
These framesets can be anything from 2x to 5x the price of the complete Focus bike!!
I don't mean to be disparaging, but many still consider a grand to be in the beginners bracket!

On the other hand, any benefits of spending more are very much on a reducing scale!
IMHO you're better off putting the extra money into upgrading the wheels!

gaddster

doesn't make then 2x or 5x better though does it and I'd wager it wouldn't make you 2x or 5x faster either. Money cannot buy you fitness and power, it may assist you marginally but the bang for buck is non existent. Anyway, to the OP, send it back for a refund if it hasn't impressed you so far as after 30 days you'll be stuck with it.

richard36

chrishd883. I was thinking of upgrading my exising bike and even posted on here a few weeks ago (at the time I wasn't going to splash out on a new bike). I didn't get any replies and assumed that no-one thought there were any worthwhile upgrades ie. wheels tyres etc.

Again, forgive my ignorance but what would more expensive wheels and tyres give me over my existing wheels - rigida nova - and tyres - continental gatorskins.

If there are any recommendations for wheels/tyres what are they?

I bought the bike partly because I had been influenced by so many posts which say something like "get a cheapish road bike then when you get into it you can buy a more expensive bike" I appreciate £1000 is at the lower end of the price spectrum for carbon framed/105 groupset bikes but still thought there would be a big difference between the Focus and a bike that is probably 8-9 years old (but is in excellent condition)

Will more than likely return the Focus but will give it more time.

martincashman

If you are a pedal plodder just happy to do the distance you're probably not going to notice much difference. It's when you push yourself that you'll see the biggest difference.

+1 for the give it more time, when I switched back to my light Carbon bike from the winter gate with wheels, first few times out I was disappointed to be going around the same speed, but in a week or two my average over 100km had gone up from 27kph to 31kph. In a recent sportive I managed almost 33kph over 165km, which means I would have finished an hour later on the winter bike.

To get the most out of a better bike, you need to be training and trying hard and even then it's not going to give you a magic boost.

chrishd883

"better" wheels should generally have more efficient bearings and / or less weight.
Unless you are going for more aero deep rim options.
I eventually opted for the American Class 350 sprints when they were on offer at £333.
At 1410gms these were almost 1lb lighter than the standard wheelset on my R800.
Can't call it a siginficant difference - but they do spin up to speed easier and roll better.
Makes climbing that little bit easier! Not for everybody - have a weight limit.
Overall I am very pleased with them. Lots of bad reviews - but these seem to apply to older versions.

But lot's of good wheels out there at different price points. Planet X model B's? Campag Zonda's? Etc. Mavic's have a strong following but always seem heavy for the price to me. Plus spokes can be hard to source. Apparently strong though. A friend has just purchased some Soul wheels (imported from the builder in Singapore) and first impressions seem very good.

Tyres can make as much difference.
I was a big fan of the Michelin Pro Race 2's, but the newer Pro Race 3's are great if a little fragile. Not for all year round use! About to try the Ultremo R1's and considering the Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp's as well.

Other upgrades tend to be more or less weight reduction or aero related.
Want to go faster? Get fitter, reduce weight or get more aero.

Cannondales can be critiscised on spec. I bought my R800 on the basis that the frame was great, the other parts could be changed over time. Shortly after ? I bought an old M800 'dale from circa 1997. Yes it was 8 speed and nearly 10 years old. it went well, spent too much money over the years on repairing the old wheels on this bike. But then I used it in all of the worst weather. It wasn't slower than the R800 though!

I changed from a cheap MTB to a road bike. Not knowing anything I was lucky, in that the manager of the LBS at the time, lent me the demo Cannondale R600 for a week. I was hooked. Just needed to get over the mental thing of spending that much money on two wheels without an engine!

Can't decide between carbon and alu? Ha, try both!?! Just in the process off building up a Cannondale Six13 - frame bought new from Parker's on ebay. Bit of both!?!

I think you are buying at the right price point - but you still need to enjoy it!!

P_Tucker

Richard36 wrote:

chrishd883. I was thinking of upgrading my exising bike and even posted on here a few weeks ago (at the time I wasn't going to splash out on a new bike). I didn't get any replies and assumed that no-one thought there were any worthwhile upgrades ie. wheels tyres etc.

Again, forgive my ignorance but what would more expensive wheels and tyres give me over my existing wheels - rigida nova - and tyres - continental gatorskins.

If there are any recommendations for wheels/tyres what are they?

I bought the bike partly because I had been influenced by so many posts which say something like "get a cheapish road bike then when you get into it you can buy a more expensive bike" I appreciate £1000 is at the lower end of the price spectrum for carbon framed/105 groupset bikes but still thought there would be a big difference between the Focus and a bike that is probably 8-9 years old (but is in excellent condition)

Will more than likely return the Focus but will give it more time.

There really isn't that much difference. Contador would win the Giro on a 10 year old bike. The rest is just marketing which it looks like you've bought into.

Spending money on expensive wheels will most likely be equally underwhelming.

vorsprung

When my old custom Ti bike bit the dust I got a new Specialized Roubaix

The reason I got it is that the Roubaix has a good rep for long distance comfort and I was looking for a bike to do this years Paris-Brest-Paris 1200km on.

The comfort factor with the bike is pretty good. It is amazing at dealing with rough surfaces

The unexpected difference with the Ti bike is with the stiffness of the bottom bracket and power transmission from the pedals. The Ti bike was perfectly ok but the Roubaix seems to add something to each pedal stroke that I didn't get before with the Ti bike or any other bike I've had

My Roubaix is just a normal low end "Comp" version. Shown here on the left, the black one, in full audax kit. The one on the left is an S Works, with the same mods as mine, Brooks B17, Crud Roadrace and hand made wheels



sorry the picture is so big, but the forum here is broken and won't show the smaller version

Chris James

You don’t say what the spec is on your original bike. A steel frame can feel sprightly if you have a quality tube set (i.e. any butted tubes from the likes of Reynolds or Columbus), even if it weighs more than a carbon frame.

Nova rims, although cheap, are reasonably light weight mid section rims. If paired with decent hubs and then they can build into a good general purpose wheel although they don’t seem to take much spoke tension so aren’t very stiff. I have these rims on Tiagra hubs as winter wheels, with a slight flat spot from hitting a pothole. They are okay, probably no worse than the wheels on the Focus.

Generally speaking steering and stability are affected by frame angles, fork offset, and wheelbase. Maybe the geometries of the steel and carbon frames were similar for the ride to feel much the same?

In terms of performance difference, bear in mind that even a lowly Reynolds 520 framed bike with Sora costs the best part of almost £900 new anyway,

Eg

http://www.dawescycles.com/p-395-clubman.aspx

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/rid ... reflective

so you are probably comparing two bikes of similar quality. It’s just that the Focus will be lighter.

richard36

Chris James - thanks for your post (and thanks to the others too). I'm not sure about the quality of my bike. I suspect it's a fairly cheap one. I bought it from a friend of a friend for £70. He had bought it new from SJS Cycles. It has nothing on the frame except their name and it looks more like a training/winter bike as it came with mudguards. I think SJS Cycles had a load shipped in years ago and stuck their name on it.

You may be right in that the geometry may be similar but the Focus is lighter and has better components.

Chris James

Fair dos. In which case the obvious thing to do is run the old bike during winter on the salted roads and in the wet and keep the Focus for dry weather.

You then have the fortunate 'problem' of having a summer and winter bike you like equally!

richard36

Well I sent the Focus Cayo back to Wiggle and tonight went out on my old road bike and thoroughly enjoyed it. I can honestly say I didn't notice any improvement with the Focus over the bike I've got now apart from the gear change on the Focus was much smoother.

So I've just saved myself £1000!

Thanks to all those who responded to my post.

chrishd883

Change the gear cables - inner and outer? Alternatively change the inner cables and spray something like GT85 into the outer cable housing.

Last year I changed the gear cables on an old 8 speed Cannondale - putting on a new set of Shimano cables (Dura Ace I think) - the difference was amazing, felt like new shifters.

buder

gaddster wrote:

doesn't make then 2x or 5x better though does it and I'd wager it wouldn't make you 2x or 5x faster either. Money cannot buy you fitness and power, it may assist you marginally but the bang for buck is non existent. Anyway, to the OP, send it back for a refund if it hasn't impressed you so far as after 30 days you'll be stuck with it.

+1

Very well put spot on !!

16mm

Richard36 wrote:

Well I sent the Focus Cayo back to Wiggle and tonight went out on my old road bike and thoroughly enjoyed it. I can honestly say I didn't notice any improvement with the Focus over the bike I've got now apart from the gear change on the Focus was much smoother.

So I've just saved myself £1000!

Thanks to all those who responded to my post.

Must feel good, go and buy yourself something nice with the cash!
Like P_Tucker said it makes no difference to the pros, probably won't make any difference to anyone else either.

While there is nothing wrong with riding or racing on the best gear, its in your head, and the marketing.

oldwelshman

P_Tucker wrote:

Richard36 wrote:

chrishd883. I was thinking of upgrading my exising bike and even posted on here a few weeks ago (at the time I wasn't going to splash out on a new bike). I didn't get any replies and assumed that no-one thought there were any worthwhile upgrades ie. wheels tyres etc.

Again, forgive my ignorance but what would more expensive wheels and tyres give me over my existing wheels - rigida nova - and tyres - continental gatorskins.

If there are any recommendations for wheels/tyres what are they?

I bought the bike partly because I had been influenced by so many posts which say something like "get a cheapish road bike then when you get into it you can buy a more expensive bike" I appreciate £1000 is at the lower end of the price spectrum for carbon framed/105 groupset bikes but still thought there would be a big difference between the Focus and a bike that is probably 8-9 years old (but is in excellent condition)

Will more than likely return the Focus but will give it more time.

There really isn't that much difference. Contador would win the Giro on a 10 year old bike. The rest is just marketing which it looks like you've bought into.

Spending money on expensive wheels will most likely be equally underwhelming.

Talking rubbish here.
Of course there is marketting involved but to claim Contador would win on an o steel frame is rubbish.
Of course if everyone was on a 10 yeaolrd steel bike he would.
With the carbon frame you should ecpect more power tranferred directly through the frame due to less flex, this will feel like you climb easierespecially when acceleratingor getting out of the saddle. Also the same will apply to accelerating for a sprint, the response is instant unlike steel which seems more like a couplke of pedalstrokes.
Good weheels will roll better due to better and more reliable bearings and flex less, especially on climbs.