Need some advice on a warranty claim (cracking photos)

stubs

Today I bust my bikes swinging arm



Do you think it will polish out :?

I am on my 4th frame in 2 and a bit years the others suffered the Commencal (Commonfail) cracking seat tube. Now the swinging arm has gone completely but I am well out of warranty do I have a claim for a new swinging arm after this time. If not how do I get hold of a new one Commencal used to be imported by Madison but dont seem to have an importer now. Do I have to deal with Commencal directly and what are my rights dealing with an overseas firm.[/img]

Andy B

You'd need to talk to who you bought the bike from as to either warranty or replace the swingarm

2+ years may be pushing it for a warranty claim, but you never know (How long was the warranty on the bike?).

stubs

Bought it from Merlin in april 2009. They sorted out the 1st cracked frame but I dealt direct with Madison for all the other replacements. They did have a direct email and phone line for commonfail problems, probably had an entire office dealing with Commencal problems. As far as warranty goes I cant remember probably 1 year.

Been on Commencal site and cant find a UK contact. Will call Madison on monday with fingers crossed that they can help me they were great before very quick service.

andrewyzfr6

Google "sale of goods act" and if they sold you a mountain bike it should be fit for purpose. If frames cracking on this model is commonplace(and not just your riding style) then possibly the bike is not fit for purpose, and as such they should offer a replacement or refund. As youve had previous problems, maybe a refund is the only way forward, or a completly diffrent bike?

hucking_fell

stubs wrote:

I am on my 4th frame in 2 and a bit years

How long have you had this frame ?

I'd have thought that the warranty would restart each time you recieved a replacement frame.

I may be wrong.

Is the warranty for 1 year ?

Some companies have lifetime warranties on their frames. Specialized for example.

Maybe you're a more gnarly rider than you give yourself credit for and need a stronger frame ?

blablablacksheep

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

Google "sale of goods act" and if they sold you a mountain bike it should be fit for purpose. If frames cracking on this model is commonplace(and not just your riding style) then possibly the bike is not fit for purpose, and as such they should offer a replacement or refund. As youve had previous problems, maybe a refund is the only way forward, or a completly diffrent bike?

doesnt cover you sadly. the good act doesnt really cover something like a MTB bike given that in the manuals of most bikes they say "not to be used for jumping or stunts ect ect.

this pretty much will waver any damage that is caused if it out of warrenty.

best bet is try getting it replaced as a accident damage rather than a whole new frame, this way hopefully they can just replace the section affected not the whole frame needing replacement.

gl though

stubs

Hucking Fell wrote:

How long have you had this frame ?

I'd have thought that the warranty would restart each time you recieved a replacement frame.

13 months

Hucking Fell wrote:

Maybe you're a more gnarly rider than you give yourself credit for

God I love you

cooldad

4th frame in 2 and a bit years?
A suggestion, either lay off the pies or you need a chunkier bike for whatever you are doing.

getonyourbike

It's a commie, of course it cracks If it was me, I'd first of all try to get a replacement frame and if i succeeded I'd sell the new frame and get somethnig which doesn't crack more than once a year on average. If I didn't succeed i'd get another frame, not a commie.

jonnyashworth

cooldad wrote:

4th frame in 2 and a bit years?
A suggestion, either lay off the pies or you need a chunkier bike for whatever you are doing.

cool dad are you totally obsessed with pies????? lol

my advise is dont get done get dom!

weeksy59

Well there's bad news and bad news.

1. Your warranty isn't 'rolling' it begins the day you buy it and ends 2 years later, irresepctive of how many frames you're on.
2. I've got a Commencal... i broke 2 Super4's and then got a Meta instead from Madison.
3. Commencals are the people to deal with driectly now.
4. Speak to Steve at Real Cycles, he may have a rear end for you.
5. http://www.commencalownersclub.com/inde ... tion=forum one of the lads with a broken front end may sell you a rear triangle

stubs

cooldad wrote:

4th frame in 2 and a bit years?
A suggestion, either lay off the pies or you need a chunkier bike for whatever you are doing.

It is a chunky bike well the frame is certainly heavy its just Commencal use welding filler wire made from peanut brittle. They arent known as Commonfails for nothing.

cooldad

jonnyashworth wrote:

cooldad wrote:

4th frame in 2 and a bit years?
A suggestion, either lay off the pies or you need a chunkier bike for whatever you are doing.

cool dad are you totally obsessed with pies????? lol

my advise is dont get done get dom!

I do quite like pies, but for pies read fat bastard.

weeksy59

stubs wrote:

cooldad wrote:

4th frame in 2 and a bit years?
A suggestion, either lay off the pies or you need a chunkier bike for whatever you are doing.

It is a chunky bike well the frame is certainly heavy its just Commencal use welding filler wire made from peanut brittle. They arent known as Commonfails for nothing.

USED... none of the later frames have been reported as cracking. The welding issue from 08-09 seems to have been put to bed.

His triangle isn't broken on the weld.. it's snapped mid-section.

stubs

It has broken on the weld on the inside of the swinging arm, if you look closely the weld is not straight across the stay it is diagonal. It has started to crack on the inside of the left hand stay on the weld in exactly the same place.


Its impossible to photograph but with a magnifying glass you can see that the stay has been cracking for a while the crack on the weld has dirt in the edge, on the outside the crack is clean. The stay could have been cracked for quite a while the crack growing each time I used the bike till it reached a point where the metal had become brittle.

Luckily for me the stay went pop when I was pedalling up a track to get to the Healey Nab downhill tracks near Rivington. I didnt realise what the problem was at first just thought my gears had gone out the chain was skipping because the whole back end had twisted. I couldnt see what the problem was because the crack was under the chain stay protector luckily a lad who stopped and asked what the problem was spotted it or I would probably have gone down the run and come a cropper.

paul20v

Thats nasty if not typical
at least you had replacements
i bought a 12 month old 5.5 and it cracked 2 months later and i had no help from anyone they were not intrested as i was not the original owner
it didnt alter the fact the bike was just over a year old no matter who owned it
it wasnt a basket case it was a clean bike but nothing i did or sayed altered anything :x
so i symphathise with the issue commencal need stringing up by the nuts and i would never buy anything from them again i would rather give up MTBing

stubs

Ouch thats nasty at least I have had 23 months use out of the 27 months I have owned a Commencal. If I get no joy on a replacement swinging arm then the main triangle will go on ebay with a 99p start and hopefully get some cash back.

Next bike is not going to be a Commencal dont care if they offer me a new bike complete with a sponsorship package to ride round the worlds best trails.

I am a bit short of cash at the moment so I might have to wait a while to get a replacement. Maybe pick something up in the autumn cheap. Luckily I still have my On One Scandal hardtail to play around on.

weeksy59

I think you're far from the only one who feels like this Stubs. Even though on my 3rd Commie frame now, and this one is OK up to now, i can also safely say, if it breaks when out of warranty, i wouldn't be replacing it with another Commencal.

andrewjoseph

I'd look at marin for new frames. I had my 5 year MV frame replaced with an 09 model last year when the seat tube cracked. The MV frame was a warranty replacement for a whyte JW4.

stubs

Do Marin sell seperate framesets. A lot of the big firms only seem to sell complete bikes.

The Northern Monkey

Absolutely cracking photos!


Hope you get it sorted fella!

stubs

Cheers Monkey pinning my hopes on Madison they were excellent sorting me out last year.

stubs

Stripped it down and took more photos, heres one that shows where it unzipped at the weld. Crap stuck in bottom of crack leads me to believe its been going for a while.

andrewjoseph

stubs wrote:

Do Marin sell seperate framesets. A lot of the big firms only seem to sell complete bikes.

Hmm, not sure, perhaps not. Try ATB bikes website. http://www.atb-sales.co.uk

andrewyzfr6

blablablacksheep wrote:

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

Google "sale of goods act" and if they sold you a mountain bike it should be fit for purpose. If frames cracking on this model is commonplace(and not just your riding style) then possibly the bike is not fit for purpose, and as such they should offer a replacement or refund. As youve had previous problems, maybe a refund is the only way forward, or a completly diffrent bike?

doesnt cover you sadly. the good act doesnt really cover something like a MTB bike given that in the manuals of most bikes they say "not to be used for jumping or stunts ect ect.

this pretty much will waver any damage that is caused if it out of warrenty.

best bet is try getting it replaced as a accident damage rather than a whole new frame, this way hopefully they can just replace the section affected not the whole frame needing replacement.
gl though

I think if you take it to the small claims court (cost you £80, which you get back in a successful case) showing the history of the problem they would find in your favour as the intended use for the bike is to be used off road and it isnt fit for the purpose.Especially as others have had problems too. If it was mine I would persue it this way. The company who sold you the bike would have to prove it was your fault, not you to prove it is the bikes fault. Ive never seen a case involving a push bike though!
But it may be diffrent in England.

Anonymous

stubs wrote:

Do Marin sell seperate framesets. A lot of the big firms only seem to sell complete bikes.

I am led to believe that they will sell framesets to a bike shop, but not directly to individuals. So, get friendly with your LBS, and get them to have a word in their ear.
Expect to pay BIg Money though, their frames don't come cheap :shock:

supersonic

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

blablablacksheep wrote:

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

Google "sale of goods act" and if they sold you a mountain bike it should be fit for purpose. If frames cracking on this model is commonplace(and not just your riding style) then possibly the bike is not fit for purpose, and as such they should offer a replacement or refund. As youve had previous problems, maybe a refund is the only way forward, or a completly diffrent bike?

doesnt cover you sadly. the good act doesnt really cover something like a MTB bike given that in the manuals of most bikes they say "not to be used for jumping or stunts ect ect.

this pretty much will waver any damage that is caused if it out of warrenty.

best bet is try getting it replaced as a accident damage rather than a whole new frame, this way hopefully they can just replace the section affected not the whole frame needing replacement.
gl though

I think if you take it to the small claims court (cost you £80, which you get back in a successful case) showing the history of the problem they would find in your favour as the intended use for the bike is to be used off road and it isnt fit for the purpose.Especially as others have had problems too. If it was mine I would persue it this way. The company who sold you the bike would have to prove it was your fault, not you to prove it is the bikes fault. Ive never seen a case involving a push bike though!
But it may be diffrent in England.

Isn't this what the warranty covers though? That the product be free from defects for a time period of not less than 12 months (unless otherwise stated), and it found faulty can be replaced? I think you can claim not fit for purpose or lost faith in product during the warranty period, but not after.

jeremyrundle

1. Guarantees are NOT 12 months, there is no such thing as something being guaranteed for a year. Read the consumer rights act Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 and you will see that an item has to be "fit for purpose" for a reasonable period of time, in other words a £1.99 pair of slippers could reasonably be expected to last three months, a ££1000 television three to five years, a £50 bike frame a year a £1000 bike frame three years.

also

2. If your computer packs up at eight months and is replaced, then the NEW computer starts a complete and NEW period of "reasonable" time, in theory if you had a faulty item such as a computer replaced every eight months, or even eighteen months then you could have a replacement forever.

If again your good £50 electric razor went at thirteen months you could reasonably expect a replacement and that would start a NEW reasonable period from the day you received it.

Don't believe me :twisted: :idea: , than contact consumer direct, ignore the 12 months guarantees and extended guarantees they are not worth the paper they are written on and yet people still believe them :!:

weeksy59

jeremyrundle wrote:

1. Guarantees are NOT 12 months, thewre is no such thing as something being guaranteed for a year. Read the consumer rights act and you will see that an item has to be "fit for purpose" for a reasonable period of time, in other words a £1.99 pair of slippers could reasonably be expected to last three months, a ££1000 television three to five years, a£ 50 bike frame a year a £1000 bike frame three years.

also

2. If your computer packs up at eight months and is replaced, then the NEW computer starts a complet6e and NEW period of "reasonable" time, in theory if you had a faulty item such as a computer replaced every eight months, or even eighteen months then you could have a replacement forever.

Contact consumer direct, ignore the 12 months guarantees and extended guarantees they are not worth the paper they are written on and yet people still believe them :!:

All lovely 'in theory' but how much of this has been seen in the real world ?

jeremyrundle

I do it all the time, I have had THREE replacement telephoto lenses for my Nikon over FIVE years because of this, delete the in theory and replace with in practice, and for information I was a trading standards officer for three years.

Also

My DVD recorder was repaired free at three years
My JVC 32" tv at four years
My 06 Renault purchased new by me has had the cambelt pully just last month replaced FREE
My cross trainers flywheel replaced at eighteen months

People back down too easily and finally remember

The onus is on the supplier you purchased the item from NOT the manufacturer, don't be told that you need to return to the manufacturer at any time.

One final piece of advice, if you are on low income, benefits etc, you can go to the small claim court for £30ish a letter from them works wonders, put your complaint IN WRITING to the shop and post SIGNED FOR even if you have been in to complain, you may need proof one day and if you have not done so how can you prove you have ever been in, I use a covert vidcam myself.

stubs

yeehaamcgee wrote:

stubs wrote:

Do Marin sell seperate framesets. A lot of the big firms only seem to sell complete bikes.

I am led to believe that they will sell framesets to a bike shop, but not directly to individuals. So, get friendly with your LBS, and get them to have a word in their ear.
Expect to pay BIg Money though, their frames don't come cheap :shock:

The few firms that sell seperate framesets it wouldnt make sense to buy a frame because of cost. Think the best way would be to buy a bike from the mid range that hopefully has the same frame as the top end bikes. Then do some intensive ebaying with the spare unused parts after I have bolted on my upgrade parts I have accumulated over the last few years.