Cat 4 racing - how do you know when you're good enough?

KnightOfTheLongTights

2 Qs

1. How fast do you need to be to consider cat 4 racing? Like, if I can ride 40 undulating miles in 135 mins, is that good enough?

2. Have you got to show evidence of a level of fitness when applying for your licence, and / or entering a cat 4 race?

I understand also that experience and ability to ride in groups is necessary, but leaving that aside for the moment ...

nochekmate

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

2 Qs

1. How fast do you need to be to consider cat 4 racing? Like, if I can ride 40 undulating miles in 135 mins, is that good enough? You will only find out if you enter a Cat 4 race! My friends are racing at the moment and races tend to average somewhere in the region of 24mph, but as others have said before, it's the change in pace that some people cannot cope with.

2. Have you got to show evidence of a level of fitness when applying for your licence, and / or entering a cat 4 race? No - that's part of the problem of racing in Cat 4sI

understand also that experience and ability to ride in groups is necessary, but leaving that aside for the moment ...

Chip \'oyler

Also - it's 4th Cat racing not Cat 4. Cat 4 is an Americanism. Sorry to be a pedant

Monty Dog

Unless you are riding with a club and taking part in 'chain gangs' and faster club rides, it's unlikely that you'll have experienced nor the pace and posses the bike-handling skills to be comfortable in a race situation. Even in club rides, people are generally more considerate and won't chop you off by coming up the inside on corners.
Average speed has no bearing on the intensity of a race - you need to be used to doing repeated intervals at 80-90% for about an hour and have enough left for an all-out gallop to the finish.
FWIW most people don't manage to finish with the bunch in their first race, so until you try it, it's all a bit hypothetical.

danowat

Try and novice no cat crit and see how you get on, will give you some idea of what to expect.

jgsi

fast isnt in the equation, but the ability NOT to ride in a race like a complete tool is,
I hope that you do have the nouse of bike handling and race well.

dulldave

Monty Dog wrote:

Unless you are riding with a club and taking part in 'chain gangs' and faster club rides, it's unlikely that you'll have experienced nor the pace and posses the bike-handling skills to be comfortable in a race situation. Even in club rides, people are generally more considerate and won't chop you off by coming up the inside on corners.
Average speed has no bearing on the intensity of a race - you need to be used to doing repeated intervals at 80-90% for about an hour and have enough left for an all-out gallop to the finish.
FWIW most people don't manage to finish with the bunch in their first race, so until you try it, it's all a bit hypothetical.

+1

I'm guessing you haven't done this because you'd be asking this question to the guys in the chaingang and you're quoting distance and average speed which is all you can do when you ride alone.

As far as speed goes, you're best to go in to your first race expecting to take a quick and severe kicking. Anything extra is then just a bonus. A lot of people go into a few races, do badly and then give up. Most of the guys who are giving you a kicking will have been in your position when they started. They were just the ones who stuck it out.

amaferanga

Try TLI - gentleman's racing. A good introduction to racing IMO.

Anonymous

JGSI wrote:

fast isnt in the equation, but the ability NOT to ride in a race like a complete tool is,
I hope that you do have the nouse of bike handling and race well.

^^ this. Very much so.

Garz

nochekmate wrote:

My friends are racing at the moment and races tend to average somewhere in the region of 24mph, but as others have said before, it's the change in pace that some people cannot cope with.

Pretty fast average for new licence holders! :shock:

KnightOfTheLongTights

thanks for all the replies folks - advice taken on board

Anonymous

Garz wrote:

nochekmate wrote:

My friends are racing at the moment and races tend to average somewhere in the region of 24mph, but as others have said before, it's the change in pace that some people cannot cope with.

Pretty fast average for new licence holders! :shock:

My 4th cat race yesty was 25.8 average... yet it was easier than ones Ive done a couple of mph slower, due to number of riders and changes in pace.

Benjamin Hall

I was thinking about this myself as as I was dropped for the final time by some of the racers on a club ride on saturday. I know i have the fitness for it but it was those accelerations on the flats that ruined my legs..... I'm going to do my first race on sunday (Go-Race at the Welsh champs.) so its too late for any specific training now, but still..

Any tips for getting used to the changes in pace?

Intervals? Sprinting for signs?

Cheers

Anonymous

Ironically, I find that working on my threshold has helped me the most with the changes in pace.

This is, I think, because as my threshold power gets higher, the lower the percentage of my threshold I'm sat at in the bunch. This means I have more 'in reserve' when the pace picks up.

I know what I mean, I don't think I've explained it very well... :oops:

amaferanga

I've been doing intervals mostly ranging from 1min up to 14min and it has helped my racing no end. My threshold is only 10W or so higher than last year, but my power for shorter durations is way up and my ability to recover from big efforts is much improved.

impaler_diz

For what it's worth, I foolishly joined a Cat 3/4 race as a newbie 4th Cat and got dropped 3 laps into the race. Up to the point I got dropped, the peleton was averaging about 23mph which doesn't sound all that bad, except that they kept pushing > 500W up a hill every 2.5 minutes. Way outside my abilities.

http://connect.garmin.com/splits/84819836

So intervals, intervals, intervals. Oh, and join a 4th Cat race rather than a mixed one ;-)

jibberjim

impaler_diz wrote:

For what it's worth, I foolishly joined a Cat 3/4 race as a newbie 4th Cat and got dropped 3 laps into the race. Up to the point I got dropped, the peloton was averaging about 23mph which doesn't sound all that bad, except that they kept pushing > 500W up a hill every 2.5 minutes. Way outside my abilities.

http://connect.garmin.com/splits/84819836

So intervals, intervals, intervals. Oh, and join a 4th Cat race rather than a mixed one ;-)

You'd probably be better on a 3/4 race elsewhere too - Palace is likely the toughest circuit in the south east, it's very technical so being experienced in the bunch makes even more of a difference.

racingcondor

I'm with Jim, near London -

Goodwood and Hillingdon (fast, flat, not technical) will give you bunch experience and let you know how you keep up to the effort.

Hog Hill is great once you know you can keep up. It's not technical but is a very different race.

Once you're confortable enough there try Palace and be prepared to work harder than you ever have before.

Op - In answer to your questions -
1) You're probably fast enough and the best way to get faster is to get racing.
2) No, if you're racing and getting dropped every time it's your money.

As has been said the average speed is likely to be 24mph+ but that's irrelevant unless you're on the front.

jibberjim

racingcondor wrote:

Goodwood and Hillingdon (fast, flat, not technical) will give you bunch experience and let you know how you keep up to the effort.

Dunsfold on a friday night is another option.

markos1963

how do you know when you're good enough?
When they give you your 3rd cat licence

KnightOfTheLongTights

ta v much - am looking maybe at next year, after one final summer / autumn travelling up and down the country to fellraces.

Looking fwd to it. Though I think time-trialling might really be my thing ...