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The beginners guide to chinese carbon wheels

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  • maxh5100maxh5100 Posts: 38
    Dan - That's gutting. I had a horrible sinking feeling when I saw the neighbour had signed for mine, but thankfully they were OK.
    One overly stupid question I hope, do all of your wheels have a few spokes where the round bit before it enters the spoke is bent slightly at a few degrees form the main flat part of the spoke?

    It might be my own stupidity but I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.

    And I'm using velox road rim tape as it's what they had in my LBS.
  • willy bwilly b Posts: 4,125
    Dan. That's not cool!
    One overly stupid question I hope, do all of your wheels have a few spokes where the round bit before it enters the spoke is bent slightly at a few degrees form the main flat part of the spoke?
    Yes.
    Also, are your rear wheels cross spoked on one side, and straight spoked on the other side? Sorry if that is not the technical term, but hopefully you will understand.
    Yes
    Oh and finally, what width of rim tape did you use - the one thing I forgot to order.

    17mm I think. These: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fast-forward-rim-tape/ They are great.

    Think to me mate it sounds like you have had a lucky escape! Get them on a wheel truing stand and see how they are.

    Quick shot of mine on the bike. First impressions seem like they once they are upto speed they just fly!! They look amazing and are really really stiff compared to my old Mavic Aksium wheels.

    One thing I will say is that the value extenders are a bit censored . They do work, but i;d rather just get a longer tube, so those are on order.

    Also was amazed how much white powder came off the brake pads on way home assume this will disappear once the pads are worn in.

    6002913948_7213a64231_z.jpg
    02.08.2011 by Will - B, on Flickr
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    Thanks for your replies gents,

    much appreciated,

    Max - it's not your stupidity, it's my poor description - I was just talking about the bit where the spoke enters the nipple on the rim, on mine a few have a little bend in them - but it seems that Willy has the same on his, so that part seems fine.

    Thanks for the rim tape suggestions and the velo plugs option - will look that up.
    Willy, does your rim tape seem ok with out any adhesive?
    I've used the Velos stuff before, which does have adhesive, but the Fast forward ones are half the price - although baring in mid the relative cost of the wheels this has debatable merits!

    I do not have a wheel truing stand, so I guess my options are to either slap them on the bike, and see how they spin, or take them to my lbs and ask them to check them over for me - guess they might charge a tenner, but it might be money well spent, as the idea of a failure down the line is the biggest worry at the mo - not that their check would necessarily suggest that, but it might help put my mind at rest.

    Willy - your bike looks lovely, I can see why you would not want any decals, it's a bit of a subtle stealth bike you have there, so the wheels stock suit it perfectly.
    Thanks for the tip on those valve extenders too, censored they have not worked out very well for you.

    I see what you mean about the white powder, quite apparent in the pics, saw someone else mention that (GMB possibly) - do you think it is literally just coming off the brake pads?

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • willy bwilly b Posts: 4,125
    Rim tape is fine with no adhesive. It's really stretchy so will stay in place fine.

    Thanks for the comments. Think the powder is coming off the pads. It's quite apparent on the pads! I'll get a pic up tomorrow after my ride into work.
  • gmbgmb Posts: 456
    Dan,

    Hope your wheels run okay. Nice that the courier is respectful of people's property! Mine were absolutely fine when delivered and I was quite impressed with the way the wheels were packed.

    The things you have described are all normal.

    In relation to rim tape I went for http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-rim-tape-black/

    They are one piece and you just pull them over the wheel - dead easy. You get the two for £1.99.
    Trying Is The First Step Towards Failure

    De Rosa Milanino :-
    http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78 ... -00148.jpg
  • mrolimroli Posts: 3,622
    WillyB - I had the white powder thing - it is certainly worse when you first start riding and I think GMB reassured me that he had it and it was normal for him too... For rim tape, i went for the 1cm wide cloth Jantex stuff that I always use - never seems to let me down and I always use it.

    Daniel B - put your wheels on your bike and check them against the brakes. If they spin true you're more than likely gonna be fine.
  • willy bwilly b Posts: 4,125
    Mroli - did the White powder go away as they were ridden more?
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    Thanks for the comments gents,

    I had a positive reply from Carbonzone at least, basically Echo wants pictures of the box and the wheels, so I will send them off tonight.

    I've explained the full situation to him, and that visually the wheels appear to be fine - desperately want to get them on the bike, but other sodding evening commitments mean I will not be able to tackle this until Friday when I have the day off work.

    It appears there are many rim tape options :D

    Is the general concensus that the white powder comes from the pads?
    Maybe some different pads from day one would prevent this?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • willy bwilly b Posts: 4,125
    Good to hear Dan!

    I'm sure the powder is coming from the pads. Agreed maybe new pads may help. I'm going to run these for a little longer, see what they are like after 100 or so miles. As a side note I think the braking is actually quite good...
  • mrolimroli Posts: 3,622
    Willy B - powder has got less as I've used them - the braking surface does not seem affected either.
  • I have been using swissstop yellows, no powder and the braking is good. Although I think I will keep the free ones for when the yellows wear out.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    I have been using swissstop yellows, no powder and the braking is good. Although I think I will keep the free ones for when the yellows wear out.

    Those are the £40 a pair ones?

    Does anyone know what the difference between Mavic Carbon HG pads, and Carbon ED pads are?

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=33388
    And:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=36251

    On the face of it the ED's according to CRC are for Campagnolo, but they also say 'Swisstop' on them, and HG's are for Shimano/SRAM.
    Hargrove cycles are doing a set of 4 HG's fr £29.99, but state they are compatible with Shimano, SRAM AND Campagnolo :?
    http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/products.asp?category=Brakes&product=Carbon%20HG%20Brake%20Pads

    Have dropped them a mail to see what they have to say.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    So what are peopel saying for the best place to buy from?

    Carbonzone?

    Best combo for all round riding? Do you think its better to have a larger and deeper rear wheel?

    And lastly what kind of costs are you guys seeing with these?

    I am tempted but whenever I try to start an email correspondance with one of the suppliers they always go cold after a few questions :(
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Evil LaughEvil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    Guys maybe try the Reynolds blue pads, about £20 a set.

    In researching pads for my carbon wheels a lot of people rated them better than the yellows. I found them as good as say dura ace pads on alu rims in the dry.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    Ok gents,

    popped the wheels on my bike this evening, sod the list of things to do, this is more pressing.

    I was a little surprised I had to force the front wheel into my forks, the little black bits that stick out from the hubs were too fat to fit straight in, so I had to push, all be it not with massive force, to get them to seat in the dropout - anything to concern me?

    I have got both wheels in and spun them, and neither are perfectly true, both have a little bit of a wobble in them, not massive by any means, but then I put my second hand Shimano WHR550 (I think) wheel in, and spun it, that was straight as a die.
    These carbon ones have a little bit of a wobble in a couple of places.

    So my question to you Carbonezone wheel owners, is just how true do your wheels spin?

    I put my bike upside down and gauged in that way - seemed easiest.

    It might be that they all have a bit of a wobble, in which case I will accept it, but if this is caused by the package damage then I think they will need to go back.

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • willy bwilly b Posts: 4,125
    Sorry to say Dan but mine are true. I'd take them to a shop and get them trued up whilst also get their opinion.

    Seem a lot of effort to send them back! However I can see why you would want to...

    OKGO
    I got mine from Carbonzone. email direct though Ebay. From payment to delivery was 6 days. Came with carbon pads and skewers also. I went for 50mm carnbon clinchers and they are spot on. Maintain speed very very well and are stiff as you like! They also look amazing!

    I found Echo very very helpful indeed, any questions I had were answered. Although reading this thread covers everything really!

    I'd go for 50mm all around as general riding. 38mm would be lighter but not as Aero.[/b]
  • kev77kev77 Posts: 433
    What are peoples opinions on 60mm?

    cheers
  • epo-aholicepo-aholic Posts: 1,414
    mmmmm, interesting.....
  • nevmannevman Posts: 1,611
    Just for info,ordered a pair of 50mm carbon tubs from Dengfu.com-came well boxed up within 8 days complete with carbon pads and skewers.Fitted up with Tufo hi carbon tyres and rim tape,running true and taken 1 min off PB over 12.5 miles TT.Happy as Larry.
    Whats the solution? Just pedal faster you baby.

    Summer B,man Team Carbon LE#222
    Winter Alan Top Cross
    All rounder Spec. Allez.
  • gmbgmb Posts: 456
    Dan,

    Any updates about the wheels?

    Hope they are okay...
    Trying Is The First Step Towards Failure

    De Rosa Milanino :-
    http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78 ... -00148.jpg
  • CrimmeyCrimmey Posts: 207
    Here are my 60mm carbon clinchers. I didn't purchase them direct from China but from Fuerte Bici who obviously got all the bits and bobs from there. The hubs look like the Planet x Pro ones and are sooo sweet. I have dura ace cl24's, bontrager xxx lites, prolite vicenza, soul s2.0's, chinese 88mm tubs and I love these the most so far.
    Have ordered some Aeolus decals to match the white spokes.

    P1000465.jpg
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    GMB wrote:
    Dan,

    Any updates about the wheels?

    Hope they are okay...

    Hi Gmb,

    I ended up taking them to my lbs, popped in to see him on Friday with them, and he said he would have go at both.

    The front one he has managed to true very nicely, and the rear was pretty much okay left to right, but has a smidge of up and down if that makes sense, although I am hoping that the up and down visible to the naked eye might just be a slightly uneven rim, and that the actual rim surface where the tape goes is uniform.....

    He did say that this was not uncommon on carbon rims.

    Anyway, he only charged me for one wheel, so they are as true as they could be for the grand total of £7.

    I have not managed to take them out for a ride yet, have decided to get some new tyres first, but am desperately hoping I do not feel the slight 'up and down' through the saddle, I guess that would be game over if that were thec case!

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • tri-sexualtri-sexual Posts: 672
    dan, the left-right you describe is lateral true
    the up-down is radial true, a good wheel builder can correct this, it happens when a wheel is incorrectly tensioned so that spokes at a certain point is pushing the rim out of roundness at a certain spot so that although the wheel is laterally true it may be out of radial trueness
    was this up and down noticeable before you took it to your LBS?
    radial trueness (roundness) is actually much more important than lateral trueness, a wheel which is not round will have a much shorter life and than round wheel (damaged rim, bearings wear and spokes break faster
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    Hi TS,

    thanks for your reply.

    yes the wheel exhibited that radial issue prior to the visit to the LBS, he said he has tweaked it a bit which has reduced it, but I have not had a chance to spin it on the bike and see how far out it is.

    He said he was a little loathe to try and true the radial part of the wheel beyond that he had tried, as he is aware that on these deep section rims it can easily throw it out somewhere else.

    I guess that might just be because he is not totally au fait with carbon wheels of course.

    I will check the radial wobble tonight, and hope they are tolerable - after the initial 'are they trashed' worries then they first arrived, I thought I might be nearly getting there!

    In your opinion do you think they should not be ridden then if they are out of true radially?

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • tri-sexualtri-sexual Posts: 672
    wheel building is a labour of love, getting your wheel radially true should be relatively easy and should not get it out of roundness somewhere else.
    it is very likely that in order to get it round you will get the wheel out of lateral true (left and right) and you will have to retrue the wheel again to correct it laterally, the spokes will have to be tensioned correctly and the process have to be repeated until it is true, round, tensioned properly and the dishing is correct.
    to understand the reason why a wheel may be radially out of true is several spokes in a localized area of a rim is over (or under) tensioned and therefore pushing the rim at a localized spot creating the up and down you describe.
    uniformity is the key to a good wheel and any deviation from this (radially, laterally, spoke tension, smoothness) will greatly reduce the life of the wheel and can affect your comfort due to vibration.
    however the wheel should still be safe to ride as it is but i'd recommend to get them corrected to get the most from them
  • hi i just stumbled upon this thread and am quite interested in getting a wheelset from china

    how much does a set of 50/50s cost? about 350?

    wouldnt it make more sense to pay an extra 50 quid and go for one of this instead?

    http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPPX2010CAR5082/planet-x-pro-carbon-2010-50-82-wheelset


    or am i missing something here?
  • EyonEyon Posts: 623
    justintga wrote:
    hi i just stumbled upon this thread and am quite interested in getting a wheelset from china

    how much does a set of 50/50s cost? about 350?

    wouldnt it make more sense to pay an extra 50 quid and go for one of this instead?

    http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPPX2010CAR5082/planet-x-pro-carbon-2010-50-82-wheelset


    or am i missing something here?

    Yes because the china wheels are roughly £280 to the door £120 is a good saving for anyone I think
  • 280 from?

    from what ive seen carbonzone ones cost something like 340 plus delivery charges?
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,726
    I'll wager that the Planet X wheels are tubs and not clinchers?

    50mm or 60mm clinchers from Carbonzone are around £340/£350 to your door.

    Tubs are cheaper, not sure how much cheaper as I never looked, but the prices are on ebay.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • EyonEyon Posts: 623
    Ah, I'm talking tubs as that is what I've investigated and I'm going to buy.

    Yishun 50/50 tubs, $389 + $75 delivery. And going with a mid market rate off 0.61 USD-GBP, you are looking at ~£283.

    The PX wheels are discounted too, not all that fair to compare, especially if we talk about their £600 RRP
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