Grammar Nazis - public service or public enemy?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Someone else recently wrote:

Hence we get people like you, who, through either good timing or fortunate schooling, feel that they are superior to those who can't correctly place a comma.

My name is Greg66 and I am a Grammar Nazi.

I have nothing to say about the grammar on display in this text. My issue is with the substance.

Why should someone be derided for having a good command of grammar? Why should making grammatical errors become a source of modest pride, and something to be defended defiantly, as if akin to a basic human right?

There is nothing impressive about poor grammar. But far worse, there is something deeply depressing about a mindset that rejoices in grammatical incoherence. How has that (depressing) mindset been elevated to a semi-heroic status?

Would it be so hard to take the hint, and do some research-cum-homework by way of self-improvement? Or would that leave insufficient time in the day for expressing inanity on www.myfacetwatterspacebook.com?

Same goes for spelling. Typos I can live with.

clarkey cat

you have issue's

rick_chasey

Chip.

On.

Shoulder.

dhope

clarkey cat wrote:

you have issue's

:?

I can't tell if that was on purpose or not.

DonDaddyD

Greg66 wrote:

Someone else recently wrote:

Hence we get people like you, who, through either good timing or fortunate schooling, feel that they are superior to those who can't correctly place a comma.

My name is Greg66 and I am a Grammar Nazi.

You must hate me then.

Same goes for spelling. Typos I can live with.

I've always had an issue with this. How do you know its a typo or spelling mistake when keyboard layout could easily make it either.

I hate it when people type 'then' and mean 'than'. :oops:

tailwindhome

Pointing out how someone else is not as clever as you displays a distinct lack of class.

sketchley

I have no problem with people having good grammar. Equally I do not condone those who don't. I do however have a problem with people pointing out that others have not and particularly on an internet forum; because in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter and there maybe other stuff going on that you don't know, learning difficulties etc.

Would you rather I did not participate because I will make grammar mistake no matter how hard I try?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/scie ... 809031225/

rick_chasey

*shrugs* you can correct without being a d!ck about it.

How else do people learn?

I do find it interesting that, face-to-face, Brits are happy to correct a foreigner's spelling or pronunciation, but not to another Brit....

dhope

TailWindHome wrote:

Pointing out how someone else is not as clever as you displays a distinct lack of class.

Crucially, does it leave you displaying more or less class than the person that made the grammar snafu though?

DonDaddyD

I don't think a person with good grammar is automatically more intelligent than a person with poor grammar. Not overall intelligence, certainly not.

dhope

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs* you can correct without being a d!ck about it.

How else do people learn?

I do find it interesting that, face-to-face, Brits are happy to correct a foreigner's spelling or pronunciation, but not to another Brit....

Can see why that's the case. If someone's able to learn a second language then I wouldn't feel a dick helping them out with a few bits they've missed. If they're struggling with the first then I'd probably hide behind the internet and just make snide remarks. If I told them to their face they'd probably hit me as they're clearly thick and therefor likely to resort to physical violence. Is it too early to just troll? I'm a grammar nazi too, just a cowardly one most the time.

clarkey cat

in my profession, poor grammar is applauded and encouraged - I work at the Guardian.

rick_chasey

dhope wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

*shrugs* you can correct without being a d!ck about it.

How else do people learn?

I do find it interesting that, face-to-face, Brits are happy to correct a foreigner's spelling or pronunciation, but not to another Brit....

Can see why that's the case. If someone's able to learn a second language then I wouldn't feel a dick helping them out with a few bits they've missed. If they're struggling with the first then I'd probably hide behind the internet and just make snide remarks. If I told them to their face they'd probably hit me as they're clearly thick and therefor likely to resort to physical violence. Is it too early to just troll? I'm a grammar nazi too, just a cowardly one most the time.

That'll explain why, when I, the foreigner, return the favour, they get very uptight and even agressive about it....

ballspondroad

If you think of written electronic communications as equivalent to informal speech then you can stop worrying about spelling or grammar and have a happier, less stressful existence.

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think a person with good grammar is automatically more intelligent than a person with poor grammar. Not overall intelligence, certainly not.

Nail on the head.

What I find difficult is that often as not, when a error is picked up by a grammar Nazi, the maker of the error revels in their error, like a pig rolling in sh!t. What's wrong with acknowledging the error, understanding it, and trying not to make it in the future?

WTF ARE PEOPLE PHOBIC ABOUT IMPROVING THEIR WRITTEN ENGLISH?

I'm afraid it is that attitude: "I'm bad at grammar and spelling, proud of it, and you're the tw@t for pointing it out, not me for being too lazy to do anything about it" that I find startling.


In related news, this thread is quite effective at drawing out the clots, and the clot-apologists...

clarkey cat

where does it stop though BPR - I read in the Daily Mail that yoofs were answering exam questions in txtspk - this isn't acceptable.






something has to be done.

clarkey cat

the maker of the error revels in their error, like a pig rolling in sh!t

this made me LOL

sketchley

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think a person with good grammar is automatically more intelligent than a person with poor grammar. Not overall intelligence, certainly not.

Nail on the head.

What I find difficult is that often as not, when a error is picked up by a grammar Nazi, the maker of the error revels in their error, like a pig rolling in sh!t. What's wrong with acknowledging the error, understanding it, and trying not to make it in the future?

WTF ARE PEOPLE PHOBIC ABOUT IMPROVING THEIR WRITTEN ENGLISH?

I'm afraid it is that attitude: "I'm bad at grammar and spelling, proud of it, and you're the tw@t for pointing it out, not me for being too lazy to do anything about it" that I find startling.


In related news, this thread is quite effective at drawing out the clots, and the clot-apologists...

No. Actually my errors piss me off in the extreme. I hate making them, I do my best not too. I do not need someone else pointing out that which I already know and have struggled with for years.

On a side note, it very interesting how the level of correct grammar and spelling (as far as I can judge) has gone up since we started talking about it.

sketchley

ballspondroad wrote:

If you think of written electronic communications as equivalent to informal speech then you can stop worrying about spelling or grammar and have a happier, less stressful existence.

+1

clarkey cat

maybe people's usernames should be followed by (D) if they suffer from dyslexia so that grammar nazis know to pass them over as they scour the net searching for victims. And grammar nazis should have a (G) so that people know to be on their best behavior when speaking to them...?

davmaggs

Greg66 wrote:

Nail on the head.

What I find difficult is that often as not, when a error is picked up by a grammar Nazi, the maker of the error revels in their error, like a pig rolling in sh!t. What's wrong with acknowledging the error, understanding it, and trying not to make it in the future?

WTF ARE PEOPLE PHOBIC ABOUT IMPROVING THEIR WRITTEN ENGLISH?

I'm afraid it is that attitude: "I'm bad at grammar and spelling, proud of it, and you're the tw@t for pointing it out, not me for being too lazy to do anything about it" that I find startling.


In related news, this thread is quite effective at drawing out the clots, and the clot-apologists...

I think it might well be more about a serious issue being discussed and going full flow only for some bore to stand up (virtually that is), ask the room to be quiet, hush some people talking at the back, and then annouce that they found a comma out of place.

It is attention seeking, adds nothing to the debate and is usually part of an ad hominem attack.

Stick to the topic being discussed and silently know you are ace.

Underscore

Greg66 wrote:

There is nothing impressive about poor grammar

Indeed but is it expressive? I am a recovering grammar nazi - while it is my natural inclination to point out grammatical shortcomings, I try only to do so when the meaning is not clear (or where the recipient is also a grammar nazi, which makes them fair game!) Take "eats, shoots and leaves", for instance; apart from being the basis of a pedant's joke, is it really likely to cause confusion?

However, I don't see why there is this inverted snobbery about grammar. I was not taught much grammar at school - I left happy to indiscriminately and frequently split infinitives. I have since tried to teach myself a little more about the subject to allow me to express myself (hopefully) more clearly. So to imply that one is not able correctly to position a comma solely because one didn't go to the "right" school sounds like the words of someone who will never fully realise their potential: They sound happy to blame their shortcomings on aspects of their past over which they have no control rather than taking control of their life and rectifying those shortcomings.

However, it does seem like a trait not limited to grammar. I've heard people upbraided for for having to wide a vocabulary or a grasp of more than just the most basic mathematics. It is a disappointing trend, but there it is.

Greg66 wrote:

Same goes for spelling. Typos I can live with.

Whereas as I abhor dangling prepositions...
Perhaps you agree with Churchill that "This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put"?

_

DonDaddyD

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think a person with good grammar is automatically more intelligent than a person with poor grammar. Not overall intelligence, certainly not.

Nail on the head.

What I find difficult is that often as not, when a error is picked up by a grammar Nazi, the maker of the error revels in their error, like a pig rolling in sh!t. What's wrong with acknowledging the error, understanding it, and trying not to make it in the future?

WTF ARE PEOPLE PHOBIC ABOUT IMPROVING THEIR WRITTEN ENGLISH?

I'm afraid it is that attitude: "I'm bad at grammar and spelling, proud of it, and you're the tw@t for pointing it out, not me for being too lazy to do anything about it" that I find startling.


In related news, this thread is quite effective at drawing out the clots, and the clot-apologists...

I've said it at the pub, I've said it on here and I'll say it freely. My grammar is shite. There are reasons for that and professionally I've had to man up admit it and take steps to improve and cover myself from monumental cock-ups. Doing so has never held me back professionally; in fact the honest admission has helped me move on with my career as I have improved. (Maybe not in this post).

Thing is this is an Internet Forum and some should exert some tollerance or just chill the phluck out a bit.

I'm not saying grammar nazi's need to hold the persons hand and sing kumbaya when correcting a persons spelling. But the way grammar nazi's attack the 'great unwashed', why should people have to put up with the condescending way they are corrected.

Come now Gregory, you know that most Nazi's on here correct people in the most belittling way they can find and/or attack poor grammar as a way to win a debate. They are not called grammar nazi's for nothing.

If we were in the pub talking, despite all the regional dialects, slang and bad English (I've heard you say c*nt I was taken aback) I guarantee you half the grammar nazi's here would show better restraint. Its that 'hiding behind a PCso its ok to be a monumental dick' attitude that get's them attacked.

clarkey cat

My Dad always told me 'there was no such word as cant' - so like you DDD, I'd have been shocked too if I heard someone say it.

walkingbootweather

I'm a dyslexic agnostic – I lie awake at night wondering if there is a DOG.

Fortunately my Grammar isn’t too bad, and neither is my Grandad.

sketchley

I can do dyslexic jokes all day.

What does DNA stand for?

National Dyslexia Association.

Did you hear about the dyslexic pimp?

Paid one million pounds for a Warehouse.

etc etc etc

walkingbootweather

I used to be dyslexic but I'm KO now.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Underscore wrote:

Whereas as I abhor dangling prepositions...
Perhaps you agree with Churchill that "This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put"?

_

I do, as it happens.

I'll see your dangling preposition (!) and raise you a "to/too" and throw in a misplaced capital after a colon. But I won't quote, so you can edit, because secretly I'm a Really Nice Guy.

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

Come now Gregory, you know that most Nazi's on here correct people in the most belittling way they can find and/or attack poor grammar as a way to win a debate. They are not called grammar nazi's for nothing.

Now I disagree that the grammar attack goes in to win a debate. It goes in to kick a man who is down; who has already lost the debate, but hasn't realised it yet.

In any event, even if that were true, why would it make a difference? If you're trying to persuade someone that you are right about something, it should be of especial importance to get your message across accurately.

I don't understand why someone should be permitted a few "free hits" just because they are in an internet argument. I'd tend to be more forgiving (as forgiving as GN can be, obviously) of errors in idle banter than when trying to convey a serious point.

rolf_f

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think a person with good grammar is automatically more intelligent than a person with poor grammar. Not overall intelligence, certainly not.

But why would you? Two unrelated characteristics will never be automatically connected. However it is safe to say that, statistically, there will be a correlation between intelligence and good grammar; albeit one with a fairly high variance.

As for the grammar Nazis; there are constructive ways of making a point and less constructive ways which we should all remember. Personally, I get more upset by text speak (the use of which should be a capital offence - even if texting).

tailwindhome

Greg66 wrote:

I'd tend to be more forgiving (as forgiving as GN can be, obviously) of errors in idle banter than when trying to convey a serious point.

Awfully kind of you Sir.

That apostrophe in Nazi's must be eating away at you though.