dog's off leads

tobermory

Morning all.
I was knocked off my bike on Thursday by a dog that just ran into the road forcing me to swerve which in turn i went down and whacking my elbow on the edge of the curb.
i now have a broken elbow in three places which will be pinned and plated this week,and have been warned i might not get full flection in the elbow again.
The dog was with its owner,my question is is it against the law to have a dog not on a lead on the street.
The lady in question was very good as was the car that pulled up.
I do not know what happened after that the law came and they are coming to see me today.
I guess my only way to keep any fitness will be a turbo trainer.

JST

Nightmare, hope you have a speedy recovery. We have a dog and is always on the lead anywhere near a road. No matter how well trained they are you can never be sure they won't rush out into the road for some reason.

I see a few poeple locally who walk their dogs off the lead on pavements and feel sorry for the dog incase it gets run over, goes after a bike or bites someone and has to be put down

optimisticbiker

I've come close to this situation myself, fortunately never been clobbered. Hope you mend OK.

The owner hopefully will have public liability insurance through their house insurance. Walking a dog by a road unrestrained is arguably negligence. While it is not illegal as such, there is precedence in court rulings that suggest you should be entitled to compensation.

The Rookie

The law is clear on this, you can only seek compensation for negligeance, if this is the first time the dog has 'run off' the owner will not be found to be negligeant for it, if the dog makes a habit of running off then they are negligeant as it running off was foreseeable.

I'll probably get flamed for the above but there is well extablished case law for dogs in this scenario and the situation was very very similar to yours, dog off lead causing the cyclist an accident and personal injury plus damage to bike, owner not held to be liable as they 'proved (balance of probabilities) in court that it was not reasonable for them, to expect the dog to run off as it had not done it before.

The law may be an ass, but that is the legal position I'm afraid.

Simon

tobermory

Fully understand thanks for clearing that up.
Maybe the law should be changed dog's on leads while on the streets i know people love dogs but surely the sensible thing would be to keep on leads.
the bike is smashed and a write off me thinks its insured so ok on that.

d87heaven

Road traffic act 1988 states that a dog on the road should be on a lead. It is an offence otherwise (caveats apply) So to have it on the path without a lead is fine. The minute it steps into the road its an offence.

I don't believe it is law to have a dog on a lead in a public place only that it must be under control. Some authoritys have byelaws.

Lifted from a solicitors web page

If you do not have insurance cover available and you face a claim for damages caused by your dog, then (as a general rule) you will be liable if:-

The incident was due to your negligence (ie, you did something you should not have done or you failed to do something that you should have done), or
Your dog has behaved in a similar manner on a previous occasion and you were aware of it

Twostage

The Beginner wrote:

The law is clear on this, you can only seek compensation for negligeance, if this is the first time the dog has 'run off' the owner will not be found to be negligeant for it, if the dog makes a habit of running off then they are negligeant as it running off was foreseeable.

I'll probably get flamed for the above but there is well extablished case law for dogs in this scenario and the situation was very very similar to yours, dog off lead causing the cyclist an accident and personal injury plus damage to bike, owner not held to be liable as they 'proved (balance of probabilities) in court that it was not reasonable for them, to expect the dog to run off as it had not done it before.

The law may be an ass, but that is the legal position I'm afraid.

Simon

What would be the situation if the dog was still allowed to be off lead now ? How do we know this was the first time ? I would not discount any action at this point unless you don't want to. I was bitten by a dog that ran out of the owners gate into the road. I didn't pursue it (beyond knocking on the door and venting my anger) as I didn't want anything to happen to the dog as a result.

Like JST I think dogs near traffic should be on leads for the sake of the dog if nothing else.

shouldbeinbed

I own 3 and would never have them off the lead near any public highway and I make sure that they are gathered in and under my immediate control/clipped on if I see a cyclist coming on the scrubland and paths they can stretch their legs on.

Theres no excuse for free running dogs without owner control, they are either pretty readily trainable to come when called or aren't safe to be walked off lead unless in an enclosed or private area.

Theres times I will have one or more on the lead all walk if they've been jumpy or skittish at home.

hope you recover quickly tobermory.

Clank

d87heaven wrote:

Road traffic act 1988 states that a dog on the road should be on a lead. It is an offence otherwise (caveats apply) So to have it on the path without a lead is fine. The minute it steps into the road its an offence.

'ello, there's an interesting bit of phrasing.

For many public roads, the pavement along side of the road (the 'footway') is legally part of the road, just not dedicated for use by vehicles. It's very distinct from a 'a path' which is a public footpath (different class of right of way altogether). Legally, they are completely different entities. :?

So, is being on the footway without a lead, an offence?

Not that this is likely to help the OP. Hope it mends quickly for you.

optimisticbiker

Found this on a case law site:

"A 65 year old man was awarded compensation after a dog ran under the wheel of his bike. He was cycling through a park when a dog that was not on its lead run in front of his bike, throwing him over the handlebars. The cyclist sustained a fractured pelvis and was unable to walk unaided for three months and could not return to work for a further six months. The owner of the dog was liable for the dog’s actions as it should have been on a lead and was sued for bike accident compensation. The man was awarded £14,000 for his injuries.."

Ok, so its in a park not on a road, but it was in an area where the dog was required to be on a lead...


and another...

"£9,700 for cyclist who collided with a dog

Mr H was riding his bicycle when he collided with a dog. The Insurers for the dog owner repeatedly denied liability. The Insurers then offered to settle liability on a 50% contributory fault basis. The compensation was ultimately settled on a 25% liability basis.

Mr H received £9,700, an increase of £3,750 on the first offer."


I'd certainly want to seek compensation, even if its just the bike. It may be insured, but who then picks up the higher premium next year - you do!

chilling

My dog was hit by a cyclist the other day.

Yes, she was off the lead but we were in the park and at that point she was walking beside me rather than rummaging through the undergrowth as is her want. We were on a shared cycle / footpath.

This bloke came down the path and unfortunately the dog jumped out of his way in the same direction he swerved.

Gave me a right mouthful, he did. Threatened me with lawyers etc, etc.


I just pointed out that riding a bike with no functioning brakes would most likely make him the guilty party, that he was lucky that the dog was ok as he'd be looking at some tasty vets bills and that it could have been a child he ran over rather than a dog.

Stupid arse, V brakes front and rear, neither lead pipe in it's proper place, which is why he couldn't stop, or slow down.

dilemna

The Beginner wrote:

The law is clear on this, you can only seek compensation for negligeance, if this is the first time the dog has 'run off' the owner will not be found to be negligeant for it, if the dog makes a habit of running off then they are negligeant as it running off was foreseeable.

I'll probably get flamed for the above but there is well extablished case law for dogs in this scenario and the situation was very very similar to yours, dog off lead causing the cyclist an accident and personal injury plus damage to bike, owner not held to be liable as they 'proved (balance of probabilities) in court that it was not reasonable for them, to expect the dog to run off as it had not done it before.

The law may be an ass, but that is the legal position I'm afraid.

Simon

This is rubbish. The dog owner owes others a duty of care. The fact that they were walking their dog next to a road with out it being on a lead, the dog then runs into to the road causing a cyclist to swerve and in the process suffer injury and damage to their bike is clearly negligent. The case you quote must have had it's own exceptional facts or the judge was a fervent dog lover and cyclist hater.

There is a duty of care. The duty of care was breached. The dog running into the road was the main and only cause of the cyclist's injuries and damage to bike. It was forseeable as dogs are known to chase cyclists or act unpredicably around cyclists or next to roads so the reasonable dog walker would have had their dog on a lead.

Sue, sue, sue, sue. Contact any of the cycling clubs solicitors. I hope she is insured.

GWS.

HTH.


Ps Your title should be "Dogs off leads" not "Dog's off leads". No apostrophe. Your title doesn't make sense.

jeremyrundle

I continue to say it again and again

headcam, headcam, headcam

£9 on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-DV-Hidden-Sp ... 19c501011b

NO excuse for not having one.

I have 6

http://sirpatrickmooresales.co.uk/Ourpage.aspx

I have also had a video camera (Panasonic" mounted on my dashboard for eight years, in that time I have reported many a taxi driver for carving me up, and one van driver was sacked for threats and road rage), but as more and more crash for claims insurance scams are taking place I am am amazed no one else covers themselves.

The use of a headcam would have secured you a case of negligence on the part of the owner and recorded any admissions on their part and statements of withesses, all for £9 who does not have a head cam, why :!:

tobermory

Having spoken to the police yesterday they have informed me that they are bringing a charge of negligence against the owner of the dog,as a witness to the accident informed them that the dog had in fact already run out into the road causing a car to brake just up the road.So it looks like i might have a claim i will be ok but my bike is totalled and i do not see why i should have higher premiums next year,i guess i am lucky the car driver behind was so quick to stop otherwise he might have run over me.

dilemna

tobermory wrote:

Having spoken to the police yesterday they have informed me that they are bringing a charge of negligence against the owner of the dog,as a witness to the accident informed them that the dog had in fact already run out into the road causing a car to brake just up the road.So it looks like i might have a claim i will be ok but my bike is totalled and i do not see why i should have higher premiums next year,i guess i am lucky the car driver behind was so quick to stop otherwise he might have run over me.

Get thee to a solicitor that specialises in cycling claims.

I have found 99.9% of women to be totally incapable of controlling their dog(s). From what you have writ it sounds like you had very nasty experience and were lucky not to be run over and ........... killed. Do you know if the mutt has been put down? And the woman? She is highly irresponsible not having her dog on a lead if it has done this before.

I expect your next update to tell us that you have contacted so and so solicitors. LCC - Levenes, CTC - Russell Jones Walker, BC - I don't know. There is also Bikeline - Alyson France Solicitors and CycleAid - Simon Holt and Co Solicitors.


Oh and unless you have the name, address, contact details of this woman and any insurance policy she might have be prepared for the cops to be as obstructive as possible in providing you this information if you don't currently have it. When I was knocked down 4 months ago the cops REFUSED to give me the other driver's insurance details citing the Data Protection Act telling me I would have to make a formal written request which I did, but the bastards still refused. But then the solicitor wrote to them and the pigs wanted £80!!!!

In the mean time do everything to make sure you heal properly and don't go doing anything energetic that will jeopardise this. Your bike can wait. It is recovery from your injuries that is the important thing to concentrate on at the moment and contacting a solicitor. BC, LCC and CTC have ones they use. Also there are a few in the back of Cycling Weekly. DO NOT USE A CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANY.

Good luck.

The Rookie

dilemna wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

The law is clear on this, you can only seek compensation for negligeance, if this is the first time the dog has 'run off' the owner will not be found to be negligeant for it, if the dog makes a habit of running off then they are negligeant as it running off was foreseeable.

I'll probably get flamed for the above but there is well extablished case law for dogs in this scenario and the situation was very very similar to yours, dog off lead causing the cyclist an accident and personal injury plus damage to bike, owner not held to be liable as they 'proved (balance of probabilities) in court that it was not reasonable for them, to expect the dog to run off as it had not done it before.

The law may be an ass, but that is the legal position I'm afraid.

Simon

This is rubbish.

No its not, look at your case law, there will be examples were owners are held to be negligeant, and compensation awarded, equally there have been cases where owners have been held to not be negligeant and the cyclist has had to pay costs.

Stop spouting rubbish.

Simon

Twostage

tobermory wrote:

Having spoken to the police yesterday they have informed me that they are bringing a charge of negligence against the owner of the dog,as a witness to the accident informed them that the dog had in fact already run out into the road causing a car to brake just up the road.

So the dog had already almost got itself killed and the owner chose not to put it on a lead :? I think this makes a quote from dilemna relevant :-

Dilemna wrote:
Do you know if the mutt has been put down? And the woman?

Although I don't think he meant it that way.

tobermory

No it has not,to be fair to the lady she has been to see me to see how i am what is done is done,i am not prosecuting her it is the police,they think it's right to do so,plus they brought my smashed bike back looking at it i wonder how lucky i am with only a busted elbow plus cuts and bruises

mark1964

I hope you make a speedy recovery. This is one of the problems on my commute along the Bristol to Bath Railway Path. I've had several near misses myself. The worst time was when I was cycling along the path and out of the blue a large black dog jumped out of the bushes about 10ft in front of me. All I can say is thank god for hydraulic disc brakes!!. The owner had decided to let the animal off the lead while he climbed up the embankment rather than use the nearby access ramp. Last year, I came across a cyclist who broke his arm going over the handlebars braking for a dog that just wandered out in front of him.

Just as bad as dogs off the lead, I find those telescopic dog leads annoying. Owner on one side of path, dog yards away, nice almost invisible lead in twighlight for you to decapitate yourself on!.

Initialised

I snapped off my funnybone going over a speed bump in a shopping trolley sideways (I was fourteen at the time). I can't fully bend or straighten (maybe 1-2cm out compared to the other) it but I don't find it a hinderance. Not having the use of your right arm at fourteen years is really frustrating.

Last month I hit a dog, we both dodged each other the same way. It broke my fall but bruised my ribs.

chilling

@Initialised

Did you run my dog over? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;~)