converting QR ABP to a bolt through rear axle

jonnyashworth

is it possible to convert a QR style system on the rear of the 09 remedy frame into a bolt through?

if so how does one do it?

nicklouse

is this a frame with ABP?

jonnyashworth

yep

jonnyashworth

I have been doing a fair amount of research into this and cant come up with anything solid.

New trek Fuel EX's and Remedys seem to use whats called an "ABP Convert" this seems to be a replacement of the droupout and mech hanger with a 12mm thru axle probably need a few more bits.

I'm dying to know if the good people at treck have made it possible for everyone using QR to upgrage our bikes to accomodate the latest technology or have deliberately made it so it is not possible in an attempt to make us want to buy their newest product.

I for one will be disgusted if it is the latter case.

ricardo_smooth

Afaik it can't be done at present

Anonymous

jonnyashworth wrote:

have deliberately made it so it is not possible in an attempt to make us want to buy their newest product.

I for one will be disgusted if it is the latter case.

Boohoo for you. Most, in fact the vast vast majority of QR equipped bikes, cannot be changed to thru-axle.

I thought the ABP system was kind of like a maxle anyway?

dan shard

yeehaamcgee wrote:

jonnyashworth wrote:

have deliberately made it so it is not possible in an attempt to make us want to buy their newest product.

I for one will be disgusted if it is the latter case.

Boohoo for you. Most, in fact the vast vast majority of QR equipped bikes, cannot be changed to thru-axle.

I thought the ABP system was kind of like a maxle anyway?

err....ish I suppose...

Its the standard QR but the the nut stays in place in the frame so you do need to take the skewer out similar to a maxle.

jonnyashworth

ricardo_smooth wrote:

Afaik it can't be done at present

So sure?????
SO WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right I have the final word on this subject so if you own TREK with ABP listen up!
I have contacted treks tech guys with their UK based distributors to see if a kit was available to change the ABP QR style system to a bolt thru 12mm they told me
"iIt is possible but at present a kit is not available but all the necessary parts to make the change can be sourced by your local Trek dealer" So I contacted a few local Trek dealers around me and most hadnt a clue what I was on about. However Phil at Big Peaks in Ashburton came through having performed the upgrade procedure once before. Apparantly it takes a week or so to source all the parts but is a 10 minuite upgrade anyone can do (hub upgrading excluded).

RevellRider

Doesn't the 09 ABP system differ slightly from the current version?

And ease up on Ricardo_Smooth, he said as far as he knows.

ricardo_smooth

Well he wants to shout about finding out something new when it clearly says AFAIK! And not many know about it full stop........obviously this info serves a your kind of penis extension. (thanks for the words of sense revell)

RevellRider

It's ok, no one likes a keyboard warrior.

Now, after a little research. It has become clear that the 2009 Remedy can't be converted.

The 2009 Trek Remedy used the ABP suspension design. This version with the full floating rear end placed the chainstays on the outside of the seatstay. For 2010 Trek revised this design. They swapped the chainstays to the inside and slimmed the system down. The 2010 range had a shorter axle stub on the rear mech hanger/pivot bolt because of this. Both of these designs use a bearing in the ABP with has an internal diameter of 12mm and the hole the the ABP Race Pivot bolt sits in is 12mm too.

Now to move over to the 142x12mm rear end that ABP Convert uses, they had to increase the size of the bearing and the hole the pivot bolt sits in. They did this by using a larger bearing in both internal and external diameter. The ID of this bearing is now 17mm and the ABP Convert pivot bolt has also increased to 17mm. So, as you can see the 17mm pivot bolt won't go through the 12mm hole in the chainstay. And even if it did, the ABP Convert pivot bolt would be too short.

Deputy Dawg

That just means a new rear end is needed for the conversion assuming it'll fit on the frame

dan shard

Sounds like it lines up with the drop in suspension travel from 160mm to 150mm as the Trek scratch took over as the AM bike.

Not really sure why you'd want to change to a thru axle though. Can you really notice a difference?? Surely if it was an upgrade, then the remedy 9.9 at a cost of £6500 would have it as standard

RevellRider

Dan, the current Remedy 9.9 does run ABP Convert. They also supply the bits in the kit bag to convert back to 135mm rear axle witha q/r.

Deputy Dawg. The rear end conversion would probably fit. You would need a whole new rear end including the Evo link. The shock would need to be replaced as the 09 model runs an 8" eye to eye shock, where as the 11 model runs a 7.75" eye to eye shock and now a DRCV shock. Not a cheap conversion when you consider the shock alone, retails at £430

jonnyashworth

apparantly thats not the case.
You onlt need new bearings in the axle area, a new dropout + mech hanger, a 20mm maxel and the replacements for the 2 outer bits of the QR system.
I will know for sure on thursday when all the parts are sourced for me so I will put cost + full list of part numbers up on here.
The honest truth is I dont know if I will feel the difference?? but I fancy giving it a go.

RevellRider

Jonny, I work at Trek dealer. I have access to the suspension diagrams that Trek produce with every frameset. The slight differences in the ABP (i.e the fact the earlier bikes ran on a bearing with a 12mm ID) means it is a very big job to convert. If you really want, I can provide you with a parts list and a rough estimate on the price.

jonnyashworth

that would be great. would it be possible to get sme copys of the tech diagrams too?

BlueAdvocate

Johnny, keep up the good work; I'm interested in that parts + cost list as assuming from the above you can convert the 2010 Trek.

jonnyashworth

Will do I would be interested to read Revils parts list to compare it to the one I am nhow sourcing direct from TREK's tech guys

RevellRider

That's odd, Trek don't sell to the public. They just go through their dealers.

Right, after comparing both tech diagrams it appears that between the 09 and 11 models a few things stay the same. Lower shock mount, main pivot, rocker link pivot and the seatstay/rocker link pivot. Upper shock mount changed in 2010 to a DCRV shock and the travel was reduced to 150mm so there is a different Evo link. Trek don't currently list the 2011 in their dealer manual so I can't be sure if it carried over this year (same fixings so I guess so).

So as a bare minimum for upgrading the rear end to 142x12mm is as follows
Seatstay assembly - there is no parts listed right now, but past experience you'd be looking at about £100
Chainstays - As above and same about the price
Bearings - MR1728 28X17X6, 2 of, £12 each
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Non-drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread - £15
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread, M12x1.75 internal thread, M10x1.0 der hanger thread -£15
Skewer - Maxle Light, 192mm long, 12mm Dia - £60
Pivot Nuts - ABP Convert Pivot Nut, M17x1.0, 23mm Flats, 2 of, £8.10 each

So, providing the Evo link doesn't need changing (£110 for the 2010 version) and you can use your orginal shock (DRCV RP23 is £430) you should be able to get the parts excluding labour and a new rear hub for around £330.

BlueAdvocate

RevellRider wrote:

That's odd, Trek don't sell to the public. They just go through their dealers.

Right, after comparing both tech diagrams it appears that between the 09 and 11 models a few things stay the same. Lower shock mount, main pivot, rocker link pivot and the seatstay/rocker link pivot. Upper shock mount changed in 2010 to a DCRV shock and the travel was reduced to 150mm so there is a different Evo link. Trek don't currently list the 2011 in their dealer manual so I can't be sure if it carried over this year (same fixings so I guess so).

So as a bare minimum for upgrading the rear end to 142x12mm is as follows
Seatstay assembly - there is no parts listed right now, but past experience you'd be looking at about £100
Chainstays - As above and same about the price
Bearings - MR1728 28X17X6, 2 of, £12 each
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Non-drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread - £15
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread, M12x1.75 internal thread, M10x1.0 der hanger thread -£15
Skewer - Maxle Light, 192mm long, 12mm Dia - £60
Pivot Nuts - ABP Convert Pivot Nut, M17x1.0, 23mm Flats, 2 of, £8.10 each

So, providing the Evo link doesn't need changing (£110 for the 2010 version) and you can use your orginal shock (DRCV RP23 is £430) you should be able to get the parts excluding labour and a new rear hub for around £330.

Bargain for a bit of stiffness :roll: now where's that spam with the Viagra offer

BlueAdvocate

RevellRider wrote:

That's odd, Trek don't sell to the public. They just go through their dealers.

Right, after comparing both tech diagrams it appears that between the 09 and 11 models a few things stay the same. Lower shock mount, main pivot, rocker link pivot and the seatstay/rocker link pivot. Upper shock mount changed in 2010 to a DCRV shock and the travel was reduced to 150mm so there is a different Evo link. Trek don't currently list the 2011 in their dealer manual so I can't be sure if it carried over this year (same fixings so I guess so).

So as a bare minimum for upgrading the rear end to 142x12mm is as follows
Seatstay assembly - there is no parts listed right now, but past experience you'd be looking at about £100
Chainstays - As above and same about the price
Bearings - MR1728 28X17X6, 2 of, £12 each
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Non-drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread - £15
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread, M12x1.75 internal thread, M10x1.0 der hanger thread -£15
Skewer - Maxle Light, 192mm long, 12mm Dia - £60
Pivot Nuts - ABP Convert Pivot Nut, M17x1.0, 23mm Flats, 2 of, £8.10 each

So, providing the Evo link doesn't need changing (£110 for the 2010 version) and you can use your orginal shock (DRCV RP23 is £430) you should be able to get the parts excluding labour and a new rear hub for around £330.

Bargain for a bit of stiffness :roll: now where's that spam with the Viagra offer

RevellRider

Not just a bit more stiffness, 35 whole percent more!

BlueAdvocate

RevellRider wrote:

Not just a bit more stiffness, 35 whole percent more!

Those emails I've saved offer me soooo much more

RevellRider

They promise an extra 3 inches as well?

BlueAdvocate

Seriously thanks for the breakdown.... I do have a question, I have the 2010 so would I need to change the chainstays/seatstays which I believe you said changed on the 2010? Give that the are nearly 2/.3's of the cost.

RevellRider

I'm afraid it would need new seat and chainstays. The change from 2009 to 2010 was moving the seatstay to sit inside the chainstay. This created a slimmer profile at the axle (less to catch your ankles on). It still used a 12mm pivot bolt on the ABP, where as from my previous post you'll know ABP Convert runs on 17mm pivot bolts

jonnyashworth

The travel on the 09 bikes wa only 150 http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/20 ... ve/remedy9
not that it makes too much difference anyway. I rekon your right Revell I was hoping that it would be a sub £100 upgrade but never mind.

dan-abel

BlueAdvocate wrote:

RevellRider wrote:

That's odd, Trek don't sell to the public. They just go through their dealers.

Right, after comparing both tech diagrams it appears that between the 09 and 11 models a few things stay the same. Lower shock mount, main pivot, rocker link pivot and the seatstay/rocker link pivot. Upper shock mount changed in 2010 to a DCRV shock and the travel was reduced to 150mm so there is a different Evo link. Trek don't currently list the 2011 in their dealer manual so I can't be sure if it carried over this year (same fixings so I guess so).

So as a bare minimum for upgrading the rear end to 142x12mm is as follows
Seatstay assembly - there is no parts listed right now, but past experience you'd be looking at about £100
Chainstays - As above and same about the price
Bearings - MR1728 28X17X6, 2 of, £12 each
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Non-drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread - £15
ABP Convert Pivot Bolt, Drive side for 142x12mm axle, M17x1.0 external thread, M12x1.75 internal thread, M10x1.0 der hanger thread -£15
Skewer - Maxle Light, 192mm long, 12mm Dia - £60
Pivot Nuts - ABP Convert Pivot Nut, M17x1.0, 23mm Flats, 2 of, £8.10 each

So, providing the Evo link doesn't need changing (£110 for the 2010 version) and you can use your orginal shock (DRCV RP23 is £430) you should be able to get the parts excluding labour and a new rear hub for around £330.

Bargain for a bit of stiffness :roll: now where's that spam with the Viagra offer

Just searching the net as I want to buy some Hope 2's on Stans Flows for my bike to make it a little stronger on the trail..

I was advised that I could upgrade to a Maxle rear axle..

You seem to have some knowledge on the topic.

Any advice would be great, I notice that CRC have the Rockshox maxle light axle for sale, is this what i need? what else do I need?

many thanks...