Clarks Skeletal brakes - eurgh!

TickTockTick

nicklouse wrote:

TickTockTick wrote:

Why so much Hope hating on here?

what you see as hate is not hate just realism.

look ate the Pro 2 hub. a very poor "replacement" for what went before. yes I have a set of Ti bulbs. After the original Mini the brakes went downhill. yes I have minis. headsets well at least they have got rid of the stupid alloy crown race that almost always was trashed when removing it from a fork, Yes i have one of each designs of the hope headsets. the hed doc well I have 2 in my tool box.

Hope hoops so that just some Hope hubs and some rims from someone else.

while we are on it CK headsets. they have only just changed their design as they were not suitable for long travel forks.
they said they would never make any internal headsets..... guess what they do a compatible version now........

just cause something was good or is make "locally" means little.

But hey spend your money on what you want we did.

I believe passionately in buying British. Because we have precious little of it left. In an expensive place to live like the UK, I am happy for Hope workers to be paid a decent living wage. Having said that I have never felt Hope to be expensive compared to the competition. Especially conbsidering how pretty their stuff is...

I don't expect them to be the best at everything. I keep hearing people rave about Formula brakes so I guess I will have to give them a go to see what the fuss is all about. I'm also keen to try out the Shimano four pots that I have heard are really powerful?

Actually, I am not just passionate about British made; with so much of our manufacture having gone to the Far East I am keen to see brands remain or grow in the West. I miss seeing made in England, Made in USA, Made in Japan (that's Far East I know, but they too have lost a lot of manufacture), Made in Italy etc etc. I am sick of seeing Made in China or Taiwan or Malaysia or Thailand on almost everything I buy.

Maybe it seems weird to you lot. Maybe I am being really dull right now, but I believe manufacturing is important, and as much as I love what Tiawan did and do for the bicycle, I am concerned about China's dominance. So I'll buy *Mavic or DT in favour of say Halo or Nukeproof. I'll buy Hope in favour of Shimano, Nuke Proof etc.

I don't want everything I use and buy to be from China, especially mainland China. It isn't healthy for us. Manufacturing is wealth and real jobs for people.

No doubt someone will tell me that DT and Mavic and Formula are not in fact made in Europe anymore.. in which case I'll cry into my EU packed cornflakes.

Anonymous

TickTockTick wrote:

I believe passionately in buying British. Because we have precious little of it left. In an expensive place to live like the UK, I am happy for Hope workers to be paid a decent living wage.

Fair enough, but a lot of us see their stuff as disproportionately expensive.
Do you realise the markup on one of their callipers, for example, is over 1000%?
And as for the "hope workers", do you realise that the machining is farmed out to different companies?

mac_man

yeehaamcgee wrote:

TickTockTick wrote:

I believe passionately in buying British. Because we have precious little of it left. In an expensive place to live like the UK, I am happy for Hope workers to be paid a decent living wage.

Fair enough, but a lot of us see their stuff as disproportionately expensive.
Do you realise the markup on one of their callipers, for example, is over 1000%?
And as for the "hope workers", do you realise that the machining is farmed out to different companies?

You sure about that?

Apart from a few electrical bit's n bobs they say they make everything in-house

http://www.hopetech.com/page.aspx?itemID=SPG3

And quite an interesting article on the company itself here....

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/04 ... hoto-tour/

Personally I'm glad we have a world class manufacturing company, literally 10 minutes from my office. And one that's doing well.

TickTockTick

Me too. And the Hope hating on this thread aside.. the anti-British sentiment is more alarming.

Still, if you young uns are happy with the thought of never owning a house or having a real job, carry on buying Chinese.

supersonic

I am saving up for a house. By not buying Hope, I am going to get there a lot bloody quicker ;-). Hope reknowned for great bearings: they are made in the far east. Lauded for top headset and bb seals: made in the far east. Championed for their lights: yup, all the electronics far east. Sometimes they are no more british than boardman who designs the bikes here, imported and distributed by Halfords. Who are British.

cat_with_no_tail

What on earth has buying Hopes overpriced wares got to do with getting a "real" job or owning a house?

As other people have already stated, made in the UK is not all it's cracked up to be. I have always, and WILL always go for quality, price, support and aesthetics before I go for where something is made.

Clearly you prefer to overlook the fact there are better products on the market for far less money in favour of a sticker saying made in England. Fair play to you, but don't start telling other people they are wrong just because they don't agree, that's just silly.

mac_man

supersonic wrote:

I am saving up for a house. By not buying Hope, I am going to get there a lot bloody quicker ;-). Hope reknowned for great bearings: they are made in the far east. Lauded for top headset and bb seals: made in the far east. Championed for their lights: yup, all the electronics far east. Sometimes they are no more british than boardman who designs the bikes here, imported and distributed by Halfords. Who are British.

????

So a few components they can't manufacture themselves are made abroad? (which they freely admit!) They're not an electronics company, nor are they a ballbearing manufacturer.

To suggest that their products are not British is pure nonsense. Next you'll be berating them for not having and aluminium smelting process onsite :roll:

Did you actually look at any of the pics in the above article? They've invested £millions in manufacturing and design and have still managed to keep it local, without borrowing a penny from the money markets. They could have effed off to some out-of-town business park, or to another county even. But no... they've stuck to their roots and re-developed an existing building in the heart of the local community to create a world class manufacturing facility.

And no... I don't work for them. But quite a few people round here do, and long may it continue.

mac_man

Cat With No Tail wrote:

What on earth has buying Hopes overpriced wares got to do with getting a "real" job or owning a house?

Because if we no longer make and sell stuff that people want, then you'll end up working in some sweatshop callcentre on minimum wage as that'll be all that's left.

(BTW... that's no disrespect to anyone working in a call centre, just a lament that we have lost so many highly skilled jobs over the years and replaced many of them with underpaid low-skill jobs)

Thewaylander

If it is decent,

But unfortunately Hope items have some serious design issues. For instance the Pro 2 hubs have a known flange issue where it will often crack, i've seen it on several hope wheel set up's.

Also I have seen many many issues on various versions of there brakes, the only thing they had going at this point was a good garentee service.


I will not pay a british premium for an item that is off the bike as much as on, it's false econemy, i like there headsets as personally had a good experience with them.

supersonic

mac man wrote:

supersonic wrote:

I am saving up for a house. By not buying Hope, I am going to get there a lot bloody quicker ;-). Hope reknowned for great bearings: they are made in the far east. Lauded for top headset and bb seals: made in the far east. Championed for their lights: yup, all the electronics far east. Sometimes they are no more british than boardman who designs the bikes here, imported and distributed by Halfords. Who are British.

????

So a few components they can't manufacture themselves are made abroad? (which they freely admit!) They're not an electronics company, nor are they a ballbearing manufacturer.

To suggest that their products are not British is pure nonsense. Next you'll be berating them for not having and aluminium smelting process onsite :roll:

Did you actually look at any of the pics in the above article? They've invested £millions in manufacturing and design and have still managed to keep it local, without borrowing a penny from the money markets. They could have effed off to some out-of-town business park, or to another county even. But no... they've stuck to their roots and re-developed an existing building in the heart of the local community to create a world class manufacturing facility.

And no... I don't work for them. But quite a few people round here do, and long may it continue.

But some people keep saying they are totally British manufactured! They are not always. And nowhere did I say that they all their products are not all British, I made no such sweeping statement. I am saying in some respects they are no more British than companies that are based here like Boardman, Genesis, who recruit British people for design, import, assemble here and distribute through a British network of dealers. Same with Orange, a lot of their stuff ain't made here.

Yes I did look at the manufacturing they do. They don't forge their own stuff, but do CNC. The forged blanks come from elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them, and if people want to buy into it, it is their choice. I for one won't, as I think much of their products are over priced, and in many cases inferior. And what this has to do with my house; that is pure nonesense.

TickTockTick

supersonic wrote:

I am saving up for a house. By not buying Hope, I am going to get there a lot bloody quicker ;-). Hope reknowned for great bearings: they are made in the far east. Lauded for top headset and bb seals: made in the far east. Championed for their lights: yup, all the electronics far east. Sometimes they are no more british than boardman who designs the bikes here, imported and distributed by Halfords. Who are British.

Good luck with paying interest on a house that will likely never be yours!

Hope make all the CNC'd aluminium alloy the bearings are inserted into surely? Or are you saing their headsets are totally foreign made?

I knew about the lights, which is why I bought a Magicshine and a Sub66.. there's only what two or three companies who actually manufacture those high power LED's and they are in the Far East. Hope still manufacture the housings though don't they?

As for Halfords, aren't they now American owned by CVC? Wouldn't surpirse me.

But without manufacture there is no future for the UK. So I'll choose that pretty Yorkshire CNC'd stuff happily thanks. Having a manufacturing base has everything to do with owning a house.

cooldad

@TickTockTick - you are either dim or a troll.
Can't decide which.

As a matter of interest what British car do you drive?

supersonic

My point is simply to those who think their products are a 100% British designed and manufactured are mistaken in some cases. Like many of us, they rely on the Far East for some products, because they simply do it better and cheaper. There are parallels here, and I think a little hypocrisy on the part of people who don't buy Far Eastern products, or have a go at those that do when Hope do so themselves! It just happens that I buy more parts from there than some.

I do like what Hope do as they provide a market for many people and have good customer service, but I am trying to provide a counter balance to the 'Made in Britain' argument. I don't think it is always as transparent as it seems. Hope however are a lot more transparent than some, for sure.

If we are going to have more British manufacture, then the prices need to come down. We are stuck in loop, because as has been pointed out, the more we buy abroad, the less business for these manufacturers and the prices go up. But it goes much further than just machining and assembling parts: we have little core manufacturing ie the production of aluminium, bearings and extrusion of tubes. At least not at this level. Buying Hope will not change that I am afraid. We all rely on the Far East at the moment, and it will take a lot more to change it.

So for me at the moment, it is performance and price of parts. Regardless of where is made.

TickTockTick

cooldad wrote:

@TickTockTick - you are either dim or a troll.
Can't decide which.

As a matter of interest what British car do you drive?

Thank you for the bike radar warmth and hospitality. This forum has a reputation for being hostile, cliquey, and bitchy.. and now I see.

I don't think I am dim, I have a BEng from Brunel, an MEng from Imperial, a PGCE from Surrey, and a MA from Royal College of Art.

I don't have a car. Can't afford one. Can't get a job currently. Probably cos we don't make fuck all.

British manufacture is important to me. We should support companies like Hope. Strangely, every other MTB circle I have been in, other forums, all of these people have raved about Hope. Yet here the opposite happens.

Don't see how what I am saying is the slightest bit inflammaltory or peculiar. Still, keep your hostile blinkered clique forum, stick it up your arse even. Or better still, stick it up your mums arse!

In fact, so pissy is this forum, I think I've made up my mind to never buy MB UK ever again. I don't want to buy a magazine with such a pissy forum.

bails87

TickTockTick wrote:

cooldad wrote:

@TickTockTick - you are either dim or a troll.
Can't decide which.

As a matter of interest what British car do you drive?

Thank you for the bike radar warmth and hospitality. This forum has a reputation for being hostile, cliquey, and bitchy.. and now I see.

I don't think I am dim, I have a BEng from Brunel, an MEng from Imperial, a PGCE from Surrey, and a MA from Royal College of Art.

I don't have a car. Can't afford one. Can't get a job currently. Probably cos we don't make fark all.

British manufacture is important to me. We should support companies like Hope. Strangely, every other MTB circle I have been in, other forums, all of these people have raved about Hope. Yet here the opposite happens.

Don't see how what I am saying is the slightest bit inflammaltory or peculiar. Still, keep your hostile blinkered clique forum, stick it up your ars* even. Or better still, stick it up your mums ars*!

In fact, so pissy is this forum, I think I've made up my mind to never buy MB UK ever again. I don't want to buy a magazine with such a pissy forum.

Eh? What did SS say that was so hurtful about Hope? That other peopl emake some things that are better? That not everything the sell is made in Britain? What's wrong with that?

I think you being called a troll in the other thread was OTT, but you're being a bit sensitive here.

supersonic

I said nothing hurtful about them lol, except I believe that you can source cheaper, and in many cases better products elsewhere. Others may think differently and I respect that. I thought I'd made it clear I like the market they have, the customer support and have nothing against people who buy their products or support a local company. My irk is with those who have a go at me for not doing so, or their 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to buying foreign parts.

Don't see how what I am saying is the slightest bit inflammaltory or peculiar.

Still, keep your hostile blinkered clique forum, stick it up your ars* even. Or better still, stick it up your mums ars*!

In fact, so pissy is this forum, I think I've made up my mind to never buy MB UK ever again. I don't want to buy a magazine with such a pissy forum.

I think the second quotes proves the first! There are plenty of people in this forum to argue the case for and against in this thread. The forum as a whole is not 'anti hope' or 'anti British' far from, and if you think the magazines the forum is affiliated to are the same, then sorry, you are the blinkered one.

t0pc4t

can't get a job with a BEng from Brunel and an MEng from Imperial?

sheepsteeth

t0pc4t wrote:

can't get a job with a BEng from Brunel and an MEng from Imperial?

you can if you really have those quals

cat_with_no_tail

sheepsteeth wrote:

t0pc4t wrote:

can't get a job with a BEng from Brunel and an MEng from Imperial?

you can if you really have those quals

+ well engineered potato from china

I still don't see how outsourcing manufacturing processes to where companies can find skilled labour at rock bottom prices relates to me not having a decent job or a house.

You are aware that there are other industries other than manufacturing right? Well paid industries.

TickTockTick

Cat With No Tail wrote:

What on earth has buying Hopes overpriced wares got to do with getting a "real" job or owning a house?

As other people have already stated, made in the UK is not all it's cracked up to be. I have always, and WILL always go for quality, price, support and aesthetics before I go for where something is made.

Clearly you prefer to overlook the fact there are better products on the market for far less money in favour of a sticker saying made in England. Fair play to you, but don't start telling other people they are wrong just because they don't agree, that's just silly.

Local manufacturing has everything to do with more people owning houses. It is also of course proper jobs. So quite what or where you are going with that line of reasoning God only knows. The whole reason our country is in the mess it is in is because it gave up its manufacturing and relied instead on house prices/finance, IT, and retail.

I haven't said other people are wrong. It's others on this horrific hostile bitchy tight arse of a forum that are doing that. In which case, I'd happily opt for the American MTBR forum in preference to this shit fest.

supersonic

Please stop having a go at the forum - as I said above, it is populated by a variety of people with a variety of views, and you are using a few to make generalisations. If you carry on, you will be banned.

TickTockTick

t0pc4t wrote:

can't get a job with a BEng from Brunel and an MEng from Imperial?

Nope. Hardly unusual with things as they are.

Is everyone 14 on this site?

TickTockTick

supersonic wrote:

Please stop having a go at the forum - as I said above, it is populated by a variety of people with a variety of views, and you are using a few to make generalisations. If you carry on, you will be banned.

Fine by me. But take note. On other forums I have seen it mentioned that this forum is pissy, rude, hostile, unfriendly, and cliquey.. and those have been my experiences also.

In fact my experience of bike radar is such that I promise to never buy any magazine associated with bike radar ever again. So well done with your unfriendly hostile pissy bitchy forum. Well done.

supersonic

You were warned on another thread for trolling, and warned again here. What an amazing hypocrite, you don't seem to realise that it is people like you who ruin forums for everybody else.

You are the Shimano joining pin. Goodbye.

And yeah, maybe Britain can make a better one.

But take note. On other forums I have seen it mentioned that this forum is pissy, rude, hostile, unfriendly, and cliquey.. and those have been my experiences also.

Noted. See how long you last at these others.

That said:

@TickTockTick - you are either dim or a troll.
Can't decide which

Was OTT, and not needed.