terribad balance

dizzyduck

Been out for three rides so far with my first MTB and have fallen off the bike as many times. Yesterday I was cycling through Gisburn forest in North Yorkshire, powered myself at speed down a small slope and tried to slow myself down as I neared a bend. I skidded on some loose rocks, hit the low edge of a small bridge and flew off my bike and into a stream below! Ended up with large grazes on my arms and legs, and am quite sure my helmet saved me from serious injury or death.

Anyway my point is that I seem to come off my bike extremely easily; once I feel myself veering off from my intended straight path, I'll very often lose control and end up falling to one side... thus having to step off the bike, or if it happens too quickly, falling down/off the bike completely. The above example is only one of many, and the only one at high speed and where I skidded (usually I will just lose balance and come off it. This has happened even at low speeds for example when my front tyre hits a ridge of mud/grass).

I have three possible explanations for this and wanted to see what you guys thought
1. Innate: I am 6'2" and of thin build and/or have naturally poor balance
2. Incorrect frame size: I am using a 21" Specialized Hardrock Pro. I have a standover height of almost nothing, but the handlebar feels the right distance away.
3. Incorrect set up: perhaps my seat position is wrong or other adjustments should be made. My rear wheel is a little wonky too, don't know how much effect this would have.

I am eager to hear your advice and suggestions. Thanks.

Anonymous

Strength, or technique, or both. I have a mate who's a lanky fart, and I've often seem him unable to hold on to his bike when it gets thrown about.

Technique wise, you need to allow the bike to move under you. Don't force it to do any particular thing, just guide it roughly in the direction you want it to go. And don't allow yourself to be thrown about with the bike.

cooldad

Or you just need to practice and learn.
Have you ridden anything before?

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

Or you just need to practice and learn.
Have you ridden anything before?

Which would come under... technique, correct?

dizzyduck

I'm not an experienced rider at all.. I spent a few months commuting on a hybrid and doing some leisurely canal rides before the bike was stolen. Picked up my MTB a few weeks ago and have been on a few days out with it. Yesterday's trip to Gisburn doing the blue and red trails was the most off-road for me yet.

Of course I'd want to blame the bike if possible, but I admit it is likely just lack of skill and experience. I am quite a weakling too... although my girlfriend manages fine on her 16" Carrera Kraken, and she's tiny compared to me!

dizzyduck

I am especially awful on those narrow wooden bridges. Maybe I am focusing too much on the ground directly in front of me and trying to control the bike too much? Is it better on narrow paths to look further ahead, say 8-10 feet? Really, even a slight unexpected bump is enough to make me spiral out of control and fall off bike/path/bridge.

cooldad

yeehaamcgee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Or you just need to practice and learn.
Have you ridden anything before?

Which would come under... technique, correct?

Pretty much - I posted without reading yours - that's what comes of opening too many posts at one. Smartarse.

cooldad

dizzyduck wrote:

I am especially awful on those narrow wooden bridges. Maybe I am focusing too much on the ground directly in front of me and trying to control the bike too much? Is it better on narrow paths to look further ahead, say 8-10 feet? Really, even a slight unexpected bump is enough to make me spiral out of control and fall off bike/path/bridge.

Yes, you need to be looking at where you want to go. Don't concentrate on obstacles, trees etc or you'll ride into them. (Although you do need to be aware of things in front of you like large rocks, evil tree roots and large cliffs/canyons)
As our learned friend Mr Mcgee said, just guide the bike and let it do the work.

cooldad

And you will fall off anyway. I've been riding two wheels, motorised and not, for over 45 years and I still fall off.
I am sh1t though.
A well practised commando roll at least allows you to stack it with a bit of style.

97th choice

How would you rate your own balance/co ordination? do you do any other sports?

dizzyduck

97th choice wrote:

How would you rate your own balance/co ordination? do you do any other sports?

i'd say i have pretty good hand-eye coordination, mainly from years of playing baseball and racket sports growing up, and lots of counter-strike too

balance...hmm, i'm pretty good on ice skates but have had lots of experience. admittedly i was flopping around all over the ice when i first started. i wash my feet in the shower by resting it over my standing leg (if i try to stand on one leg and wash the other foot unsupported i'll probably fall over). any tips?

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Or you just need to practice and learn.
Have you ridden anything before?

Which would come under... technique, correct?

Pretty much - I posted without reading yours - that's what comes of opening too many posts at one. Smartarse.

I thought you were just trying to start some weird disagreement for no reason again, that's all.

cooldad

yeehaamcgee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Or you just need to practice and learn.
Have you ridden anything before?

Which would come under... technique, correct?

Pretty much - I posted without reading yours - that's what comes of opening too many posts at one. Smartarse.

I thought you were just trying to start some weird disagreement for no reason again, that's all.

Since when do I need a reason to disagree with you? Haven't had much cause lately though, you've been unusually sensible.
What's happened to the real Mcgee?

97th choice

dizzyduck wrote:

97th choice wrote:

How would you rate your own balance/co ordination? do you do any other sports?

i'd say i have pretty good hand-eye coordination, mainly from years of playing baseball and racket sports growing up, and lots of counter-strike too

balance...hmm, i'm pretty good on ice skates but have had lots of experience. admittedly i was flopping around all over the ice when i first started. i wash my feet in the shower by resting it over my standing leg (if i try to stand on one leg and wash the other foot unsupported i'll probably fall over). any tips?

Well, some people just can't mountain bike, they don't have the coordination for it, I've tried to teach a mate who just can't get the knack and simply doesn't have enough coordination to be anything other than a liability to himself. But if you have the basic ability then it's luckily just a matter of technique and training.

Maybe you want to slow down a little and take time to pick a line rather than charging into stuff.

EDIT: There are also some articles on the main site that might be useful, search for 'beginners guide to mountain biking'

diy

From what you describe, there could be a couple of things that you could try:

- When you crash it sounds like you get target fixation. i.e. you look where you think you will end up rather than where you want to go. Try visualising the path you are going to take and avoid looking in the hedge etc. We tend to go where we look.

- Get the rear wheel fixed or replaced, a wobbly back wheel will quickly wear other parts of the bike and do nothing for your stability.

- learn to go slower, but not so slow that you come to a stop when you hit something. Try getting your speed down at the start so that you can allow it to build more, rather than needing to loose speed when its too late.

- loosen your body and grip on the bike as yeehaa says. A loose body will help you act as suspension for your bike, a stiff body just connects you to every bump in the track. Knees bent, bum over the rear off the seat, elbows and shoulders loose etc.

- think about upgrading the front forks on your bike, it will make a marked improvement. Maybe also try a grippy front tyre to help you avoid the front washing out. A kenda nevegal or similar is overkill in the summer, but it might help you carve a path with the front. Both Nevegal and spesh Captains go well with the Fast Track LKs that come on the hard rock.

dizzyduck

Thanks diy for your points. They all sound applicable to me and I will bear them in mind. Just one question: what do you mean the Nevegal and Captains go well with the Fast Trak LKs? Are they not all types of tyres and thus used on their own? Sorry I'm a noob.

Thanks 97th, I will have a look at the guide you suggested.

mac_man

Just my opinion...

Sounds like you're getting a bit panicky when the trail gets tricky. I would also think you're not looking far enough ahead. 8 - 10' ahead is nothing.... you're over stuff at that distance before you can do a damn thing about it. You should be looking down the trail as far as you can see and scanning for the best lines to take... ie what looks comfortable/doable to you. You and your bike will just ride over the stuff once you point it down the trail as your brain will have had time to process the visual data and know that you'll be hitting a drop or following a rut.

Take another look at your position on the bike, as others have said. Relax your arms and legs and get into the right position for whatever you are riding.

If downhill then your body should be slightly towards the back of the bike, arms and knees bent slightly, pedals level and your feet/ankles dropped slightly on the pedals. Also, relax your grip on the bike... it's too easy to grip the bars like grim death... just so long as you have control and can haul on the brakes when needed. Try single finger braking, rather than grabbing a handful. You can modulate your braking more easily, plus you have more control of the bars.

i was up at Gisburn on Saturday and was well chuffed with myself as I managed to ride a really rough stepped section in the woods... only about 25' long but it had always scared the bejeezus out of me in the past.

These were posted elsewhere on the forum, but worth a look.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/08/new-series-be-a-better-rider/ with Ed Oxley (Great Rock)

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/09/be-a-better-rider-part-2/ with Dales Mountain Biking

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/09/be-a-better-rider-part-3-mind-tricks/ with Jedi (Ukbikeskillz)

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/10/be-a-better-rider-part-4-heels/ with Campbell coaching.

Ed's a top bloke and runs regular courses at gisburn
Website: http://www.great-rock.co.uk

diy

I think the hard rock pro comes with Specialized Fast Trak LK out of the LBS, which is a fast rolling XC tyre. I'm suggesting you change your front tyre for something a bit grippier and maybe move the old front to the rear.

I run Fast trak LK control in the summer but I often mix them with a Kenda up front for a bit more grip.

Anonymous

diy is one of those people that thinks throwing money at a problem is a better solution that actually learning the skills.
He probably rides SPD because he could never get the hang of keeping his feet ont he pedals too.

bails87

yeehaamcgee wrote:

diy is one of those people that thinks throwing money at a problem is a better solution that actually learning the skills.

He made 5 points, one suggested fixing what sounds like a buckled rear wheel, three were about technique and one was about spending money. Seems pretty sensible to me. Unless fixing a buckled rear wheel is just 'throwing money at a problem'. :?

As it happens, I'd completely agree with diy's first 4 points (and what everyone else has said. I'd give the skills stuff a try before spending any money (although tyres might be a good idea) other than sorting the back wheel.

BorisSpencer

cooldad wrote:

What's happened to the real Mcgee?

yeehaamcgee wrote:

diy is one of those people that thinks throwing money at a problem is a better solution that actually learning the skills.
He probably rides SPD because he could never get the hang of keeping his feet ont he pedals too.

Ah, there he is.

nozzac

double post

nozzac

You might want to try learning to do track stands in your non-ridiing time. I find they really improve your bike balance, come in handy on some tricky sections and of course impress other riders.

You start off only being able to do them standing up, uphill and with lots of movement but after a while you can do them still in the seat, on the flat with virtually no movement - ie pure balance.

I think they are one of those basic bike skills that help you gain good instincts.

Atz

I can't track stand; turns out I've never needed it on a trail either.

It definitely seems more like a technique thing with the OP. It takes a bit of getting used to standing up and letting the rear of the bike do its own thing while you set the direction you want it to go in. It's very easy when you feel the back end of the bike going sideways to assume you need to correct it and then fall off. As we all know, a lot of the time, the bike will sort itself out as long as you keep yourself going in the right direction (look down the trail, body position correct etc).

Unfortunately there's no good way to learn this other than riding more. So ride a lot and try not to get disheartened. Everyone falls, more so as a beginner.

ThePriory1978

You used to commute so i wouldnt think you've got balance issues on the flat anyway. Sounds more like you need to practice on rough terrain and you will simply get better with experience.

Everything useful to say has been said.
Shift your weight around more and stay supple. As a beginner i got thrown off a lot as when the bumps/hits/vibration got aggressive as i was too tense and my body froze which resulted in being chucked off. Learn to relax into the bike, your legs and arms should be slightly bent and act as shock absorbers on rough terrain, grip the bar firmly but loosly let the bike move around under you and learn the grip levels of your tyres on hard pack and loose terrain.
While practising why not invest in some light armour for your legs and arms. Falling off correctly is a skill in itself, if your protected right it wont hurt (as much) and you wont be as frightened of it so you'll relax more.

If your enjoying it stick with it. You will get better. Everyone falls off and no ones laughing at you for it. It just sounds like your going too fast, too quickly and your too tense.

nozzac

Atz wrote:

I can't track stand; turns out I've never needed it on a trail either.

.

That's fine but it doesn't mean it's not a useful and transferable balance skill. You can't knock it with any confidence if you can't do it yourself.

Atz

This is the internet, of course I can be an expert on things I can't do, have never seen, have no knowledge of and so on.

In all seriousness, my main point was to say to the OP that not being able to trackstand doesn't mean he can't keep himself upright on trails.

nozzac

Atz wrote:

This is the internet, of course I can be an expert on things I can't do, have never seen, have no knowledge of and so on.

In all seriousness, my main point was to say to the OP that not being able to trackstand doesn't mean he can't keep himself upright on trails.

Heh heh I'm certainly expert on a wide variety of things I know little of myself.

No indeed - it's obviously more than possible to be a brilliant rider without know how to track stand. But I found learning it helped my balance in other areas too. So for someone with apparently poor balance, it might well be a good thing to learn. I do it all the time - at the lights, when the trail is blocked with someone coming the other way and so on - any time you'd usually put a foot down. It's kind of addictive.

andrewjoseph

I have found that confidence in slow speed skills transfers over to general trail riding quite well, even track stands. Being confident at slow speed or stationary means that when the chain falls off you don't panic and fall over, but can get on the brakes, do a little track stand, get you feet out of spd's and get you feet down.

I give tuition to beginners and once they get over their fear of going slow. of using the brakes hard etc. then going faster over tricky bits gets easier, because they know they can slow down safely.

dizzyduck

track stand meaning balancing yourself on the bike whilst stationary/without pedaling? i can do it for a couple of seconds on flat.. will work more on this, thanks.

my grazes are starting to heal up quite well now and i'm itching to do some more riding. the main things i'll work on are loosening my grip and my limbs, looking further ahead and not fixating, and going through bumpy bits with slightly more speed, but downhill bends definitely with less speed!

thanks for all the helpful comments. without them, i'd probably have very little confidence to continue riding off road (was thinking of quitting and selling my bike on the way to A&E that day).

am planning on possibly going to dalby forest later this month to watch the championship races and do some of the easier trails, should be a good day out. thanks again.

andrewjoseph

Dizzy, you can also practice slow tight turns, trying to turn as tight as you can, using quarter turns of the pedal when the bars get near to your knees.

Practice lifting the front of the bike up over small objects, then progress to hopping the whole bike in the air, on small things like twigs first.

Get used to your brakes: on somewhere smooth and soft, pedal at walking speed and then jab on the front brake only, trying to get your rear wheel slightly off the ground for a moment, release and keep rolling. I find this helps people to learn two things: bite point of the brakes and how to control them, and not to panic if your rear wheel is not firmly on the ground.

You can also practice skidding your back brake, again to learn bite point and control, but not on a soft surface or on the trails. The gravel beside a fireroad will do, so you are not eroding the surface.

both these things improve confidence.