Oi! Hold your line!

Herbsman

When racing should you sit there struggling with no wheel to follow while someone else is more than a bike length behind the rider in front of him? I would have thought not. So why is it that some riders feel the need to shout at others who try to move into the gaps they've left open? As far as I'm concerned, if you've left a massive gap then tough sh*t for you - if someone then moves into the gap then surely you have no right to complain!

nakita222

Exactly how I feel, and riders who leave a gap, soft pedal and then surge to close it, causin you to up your effort levels to keep up with the surge.

forward_loop

when you pull level with a gap - visibly turn your head to indicate you're looking at it and intend to move in. If its tight there's no harm in indicating - a quick point with your finger usually does it. perhaps they were shouting about something else - was it on a straight/bend etc. - after all if it as on a straight you would effectively be giving them a wheel to follow.

gsk82

from my limited racing experience i've fund that the shouting tends to come from lazy sods at the back who are angry with everyone because they're either knackered or thiink that they're the only ones trying. it would usually be appropriate to just tell them that if they don't like it they should stop hanging around at the back

jibberjim

nakita222 wrote:

Exactly how I feel, and riders who leave a gap, soft pedal and then surge to close it, causin you to up your effort levels to keep up with the surge.

It is a race... the aim isn't for the group to get to the end with everyone doing the least possible work - making other rider up their effort levels is part of the point of racing!

Thick Tester

I like to know whose on my wheel at all times.....

If i know they are a work shy soft tapper i quite hapilly reserve the right to leave a suitable gap in front of me and then despatch the said cretin on my wheel with a quick flick of the ankles.....

Usually learns em

racingcondor

It depends how you do it. I've been racing for a bit over 2 years and very rarely had people yell at me. If you have people yelling at you weekly then perhaps you need to start listening.

On the flip side of course 75% of the calls in the bunch (at 3rd and 4th Cat) are more about lack of awareness by the person calling...

Slow1972

Seems to be two different points:

Someone leaves a gap - can you drop into it? Yes, if you can do so without taking anyone out. A point or a look does no harm.

Someone lets a gap grow and then surges away leaving others to make a bigger effort to follow - as Thick tester and other posters have said, they may well be choosing to do that to try and drop wheelsuckers / reduce the size of the group. It's all fair in a race, if you don't want to keep jumping across gaps, stop glass cranking and get further up the bunch and look like you're contributing.

wjcrombie

Forward loop wrote:

when you pull level with a gap - visibly turn your head to indicate you're looking at it and intend to move in. If its tight there's no harm in indicating - a quick point with your finger usually does it. perhaps they were shouting about something else - was it on a straight/bend etc. - after all if it as on a straight you would effectively be giving them a wheel to follow.

I agree - you would not just move on the motorway, so why do you think it is acceptable to do it in a race. Look, signal, move is the way to go....

paddlemyowncanoe

All is fair in racing where there are no rules. Some people do look and flick an elbow, but lots don't. I ride assuming the person in front will go left or right at any moment. If I am near the front and want co-operation, I look and flick and am helpful. If I am hanging on for dear life and am boogered, I just do what I want.

As for 'hold your line' - in my view that only applies where there is a kink in the road or a chicane and a wide bunch needs to navigate a small gap. It not acceptable to take a racing line cutting people up. Any other situations I just ignore.

Not sure where the gap thing comes in. If I'm following a wheel who looks like he is being gapped, I drive around and fill it. If I can. If I've taken a turn and have swung off and want to rejoin the pace line, I take a half bike length gap as fair game and take it.

alan_sherman

All's fair in racing there are no rules

There are rules. Like don't endanger other competitors. Bad riding is punishable by expulsion from the race, or even revocation of your race licence. At some point there sill be a civil damages case which will spoil the sport for everyone. So ride nice and don't cause accidents!

Amateurs race for fun. Fun doesn't include broken bones, time off work, expense of replacing lots of riding kit and the embarassment of having to need someone else wipe yer arse because you have two broken collarbones. :shock:

So when someone shouts at you to hold you line there are usually a number of reasons:

You may be switching left and right like you are having some kind of fit. Not cool. Safety in a bunch is about being smooth with your movements so you don't cause others to touch wheels or swerve. The knock on effects down a bunch are amplified. You wouldn't like it to happen to you so don't do it to others.

You may be going round a corner smoothly and starting to get close to the edge of the road but you haven't seen that someone is between you and the edge of the road. They are letting you know they are there so you don't inadvertantly push someone off the road.

In curcuit races with multiple races when the other race goes past. Let them go. Stay in your current positions until they are safely past. Hold your line on the road - no cutting corners into the overtaking / being overtaken bunch.

The kink in teh road scenario as per paddlemyowncanoes's post above.



Lots of good race etiquette points in this thread regarding looking for gaps, pointing where you are going and using your voice to communicate with other racers.

Thick Tester

There are rules yes but there are loads of self rigghteous muppets who are uncomfortable at the mere suggestion of an elbow rub o or getting close to a kerb. Those sorts of shouts should be punished with a roll of gaffer tape presented after the race.

Herbsman

The shouting has only happened a couple of times, I think it was the same person in two different races. Both times were when we were all on a straight and I was moving across into a gap.

wjcrombie wrote:

I agree - you would not just move on the motorway, so why do you think it is acceptable to do it in a race. Look, signal, move is the way to go....

I wouldn't move without looking - I'm a bit obsessive about looking behind me & then double checking before even thinking about moving. I then signal with my elbow. The motorway analogy is a bit daft though - unless you're saying you actually race on the motorway!

forward_loop

Thick Tester wrote:

There are rules yes but there are loads of self rigghteous muppets who are uncomfortable at the mere suggestion of an elbow rub o or getting close to a kerb. Those sorts of shouts should be punished with a roll of gaffer tape presented after the race.

Those shouts are out of fear and insufficient experience, self righteousness more often than not doesn't play much of a factor - unless you mean they are way of the curb. And to be fair are often because the group takes a racing line round a bend, doesn't leave enough room, where there is a cumulative effect of perhaps a minor wobble somewhere in the pack. If you are so close to the curb that you can't left pedal - and being leaned on theres not much else you can do than shout.


Oh yes- elbows - More often than not a flick of the elbow is the suggestion that you want someone to come through rather than you want to slip into the space - so just be aware.

Herbsman

Forward loop wrote:

Oh yes- elbows - More often than not a flick of the elbow is the suggestion that you want someone to come through rather than you want to slip into the space - so just be aware.

I'll bear this in mind, thanks.

Herbsman

alan sherman wrote:

All's fair in racing there are no rules

There are rules. Like don't endanger other competitors. Bad riding is punishable by expulsion from the race, or even revocation of your race licence. At some point there sill be a civil damages case which will spoil the sport for everyone. So ride nice and don't cause accidents!

Amateurs race for fun. Fun doesn't include broken bones, time off work, expense of replacing lots of riding kit and the embarassment of having to need someone else wipe yer ars* because you have two broken collarbones. :shock:

So when someone shouts at you to hold you line there are usually a number of reasons:

You may be switching left and right like you are having some kind of fit. Not cool. Safety in a bunch is about being smooth with your movements so you don't cause others to touch wheels or swerve. The knock on effects down a bunch are amplified. You wouldn't like it to happen to you so don't do it to others.

You may be going round a corner smoothly and starting to get close to the edge of the road but you haven't seen that someone is between you and the edge of the road. They are letting you know they are there so you don't inadvertantly push someone off the road.

In curcuit races with multiple races when the other race goes past. Let them go. Stay in your current positions until they are safely past. Hold your line on the road - no cutting corners into the overtaking / being overtaken bunch.

The kink in teh road scenario as per paddlemyowncanoes's post above.



Lots of good race etiquette points in this thread regarding looking for gaps, pointing where you are going and using your voice to communicate with other racers.

Good useful info ta.

I read some really useful advice on cyclingtipsblog before I started racing and our club leader always gives good tips. For me the same goes for riding on the road i.e. be aware of what's going on around you, consider everyone else, look before you manouevre and don't make sudden unpredictable movements that could cause an accident - I would have thought this was obvious to everyone who races but sadly not.

Chrissylaa

A simple call of "inside" allows you to move up on the inside.

A point with a finger usually allows you to move into a space.

Switching from left to right without considering other riders is not really the way to go.

I lost about 8 places a couple of years ago in the Circuit race div champs because i left the door open on the inside and the rider at the side shouted inside.

I could quite easily have wiped him and seven others out if i'd decided to move back over but i had to sit there and watch.

Tough after an hours hard work,but my mistake not theirs.

robrauy

Thick Tester wrote:

I like to know whose on my wheel at all times.....

If i know they are a work shy soft tapper i quite hapilly reserve the right to leave a suitable gap in front of me and then despatch the said cretin on my wheel with a quick flick of the ankles.....

Usually learns em

So, you spend more time looking backwards than forwards ?

Herbsman

crap straw man.