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Evans latest quality Build

richred_ukrichred_uk Posts: 167
edited May 2011 in Commuting chat
OK I guess I brought it on myself somewhat by ignoring the voices saying don't go to Evans, but the guys at the Cut branch were really sound, helpful and seemed knowledgeable.

Unfortunately my bike was then built by a monkey in their central mail order warehouse.

So tonight, doing about 30 mph coming down a hill on the way home, the non-drive side crank arm detached itself and bounced along the road while I looked at a bit of nothing where my pedal was supposed to be.

I can only think that they didn't tighten the allan key nuts enough when building the thing.

Worried now about damage to the arm, possible shearing at the edge of the bottom bracket bit it fixes to, and I've lost the cadence sensor magnet bit that was attached to the arm.

Suggestions? I've sent their warranty dept an email saying I need a call 1st thing, and am leaning strongly towards taking it into my LBS for a check over/ service 1st thing tomorrow to make sure nothing else has been shoddily built.

Rich
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  • SketchleySketchley Posts: 4,235
    I'm assuming first service was only a few days / couple of weeks after purchase so ask for a refund or a new bike and negoiate from there.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • richred_ukrichred_uk Posts: 167
    No, that's where it's slightly complicated - I bought it last year, but was diagnosed with a DVT and wasn't allowed to ride for 6 months, so I've only been riding it since mid March, but haven't taken up the Evans 1st service as I'm outside the time frame post purchase.

    I was planning to take it for a service in the next 2 weeks anyway at an LBS, but I can see Evans kicking up that I didn't take it to them in the first 6 weeks, despite it having done 0 miles in those weeks.
  • ThatBikeGuyThatBikeGuy Posts: 394
    Depending on how bad the damage is you should be able to get all the damaged parts replaced or if it's the bottom bracket too you may aswell just ask for a new bike or refund... which ever you'd prefer :?
    Cannondale SS Evo Team
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  • SketchleySketchley Posts: 4,235
    Ok in that case.


    If they claim that fault is nothing to do with the service then you should state that due to having the bike only six months and not riding it much the bike is / was clearly not fit for purpose and you are entitled under sales of good act for a replacment or full refund. Ask for it and quote the act.

    Otherwise the fault is with thier mechanic so they should put right the damage at thier cost and to your satisfaction. You should also ask for the refund on the service if you paid for it and I would also ask them to pay for an independent saftey inspection to ensure no other "damage" was done by thier poor workmanship. Finnaly I would also be tempted to ask for an explination as to how thier mechanic and quality control procedure failed and what they are doing to stop this happening again to other customers.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • SketchleySketchley Posts: 4,235
    Also if Evans handle it well be sure to post it hear and tell us if they don't tell us too. How companies handle these things is very telling.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    I will be very surprised if Evans fitted the crankarms in the first place.

    As every boxed bike I have seen has the cranks fitted.

    Generally a bike arrives at the shop requiring the following fitting/adjusting
    pedals
    bars
    front wheel

    and some need the saddle/seatpost fitting.

    then there is the check of the gears and brakes.

    I see you did not take it to the first service. Opps.

    when things come lose they rarely happen so fast they you cant feel the difference.

    Good luck.
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  • jeremyrundlejeremyrundle Posts: 1,091
    Just one thing, whilst I have a superb mechanic who does my bikes, is it not wise to check certain things "have" been done before riding, things you would check weekly/monthly anyway, cranks being one.

    I also agree with what was said above, surely for a crank to immediately come off without warning would be odd.
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  • CiBCiB Posts: 6,098
    nicklouse wrote:
    I will be very surprised if Evans fitted the crankarms in the first place.

    As every boxed bike I have seen has the cranks fitted.

    Generally a bike arrives at the shop requiring the following fitting/adjusting
    pedals
    bars
    front wheel

    and some need the saddle/seatpost fitting.

    then there is the check of the gears and brakes.

    I see you did not take it to the first service. Opps.

    when things come lose they rarely happen so fast they you cant feel the difference.

    Good luck.
    If you buy a bike off Evans, or anyone else, the least you can expect is that it will be ready to ride. They even tell you as such - when it arrives from stock their highly skilled mechanics will complete its final assembly, check it over and hand it to you ready to enjoy. Sadly the semi-trained baboons at Evans who threw mine together overlooked such niceties as lining up the bars so that they were perpendicular to the front wheel, or having the hoods both facing forwards and parallel to each other, or indexing the front mech properly, or even discovering that the front QR was bent thus rendering it not a QR. They're a bunch of second-rate box-shifters at best, unskilled primates on the day I collected my machine. Kick up as much fuss as possible and don't be fobbed off.

    Evans would do well to <insert appalling yet appropriate simile here>, in my experience.
  • lemoncurdlemoncurd Posts: 1,428
    30 mph downhill, you lost your crank and you didn't come off?

    Is this you?

    newman-butch-cassidy-bicycle.jpg

    It's worth posting a message on their Facebook page or you could send an e-mail to [email protected] (cribbed from a response to a dodgy Pinnacle frame)
  • ApplespiderApplespider Posts: 506
    Even when you're outside the timeframe, it's probably fairly obvious that it hasn't been used in those 6 months so they might still have done the service for you.

    The bike shop I got mine from were kind enough to do so when I had a 5 month break after buying the bike. I just called and explained what had happened and they did it anyway.
  • InitialisedInitialised Posts: 3,047
    sales of good act
    use these terms and you will instasntly get their backs up. Oh, and use the legally and grammatically correct "Sale of goods act"

    You've had the item for 6 months (regardless of your use) and it has developed a fault that could be user generated. In that time you missed the first service (which bike shops offer to satisfy warranty conditions and the SOGA). While you are lucky that it didn't do you any damage, legally you probably don't have a leg to stand on. If you're nice to them they may fix it for free but they don't have to.

    Realistically all you can threaten them with is reputation damage on forums like this and their social networks.
    I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,108
    Agree its very strange you didn't notice anything before it fell off. My non drive-side crank arm came loose last week, I could immediately feel something wasn't quite right through the pedal stroke, stopped, checked the pedal and then cranks. There was minimal play, and that was only when the cranks were in a certain position. But there was play there. Tightende it up when I got home and its been fine ever since. How could you leave it so long that it fell off without realising something was up?!
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,690
    Nothing to do with evans but I had my left crank arm fall off 3 miles from home and I couldnt tell until it happened, well it did feel ever so slightly loose but nothing more than pedal wobble.
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  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,108
    Pretty worrying! Definitely not something you want to happen when you're sprinting out of the saddle...
  • Blue MeanieBlue Meanie Posts: 495
    Be nice on the telephone, tell them about your DVT recovery and offer pics of BB axle and pedal arm. Any good business is looking for 2nd sales and repeat custom, it's not really in their interest to disappoint you.

    (I don't work for Evans!) But spent 5 years in an assembly workshop and now work in Customer Services and we get this a lot: Customer looking for 'freebies' with long tales of woe and mis-quoted Sale of Goods / Predjudice of the Purchaser etc.
    tbh, when it's not clear cut it comes down to trust and having a reasonable story of what's happened and how to go about fixing it (for both sides)

    On the other side, if it was me I would check over the bike with allen keys, you really don't need your stem coming loose (another classic).
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  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    As has been said, Evans almost certainly had nothing to do with the crank arm.

    As the bike had to be fit for purpose at the point of sale, age and missed service are irrelevant unless they can be shown to be contributory, as the service is based on time only because you can't track distance, not having had the service is irrelevant if you've been USING the bike for less than 6 weeks!

    Simon
  • HeadhuunterHeadhuunter Posts: 6,494
    bigmat wrote:
    Pretty worrying! Definitely not something you want to happen when you're sprinting out of the saddle...

    Definitely! I would've thought that it would be preferable for the crank arm to fall off going downhill than sprinting uphill!

    Must admit it's weird that it wasn't noticed before the arm fell off, I ride my bikes so often that I can immediately tell when something is even slightly off kilter. If I get a slow puncture I can usually tell when the tyre has lost only a couple of psi, before I'm bouncing along on the rims, it just feels all wrong. When the cones in teh rear wheel of my Ribble were slightly loose, I could immediately feel that the back end wasn't as "solid".
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  • RAK1963RAK1963 Posts: 12
    I hope it all gets resolved to your satisfaction.

    Out of interest is it the sort of crank that appears to be held in place by two opposing allen bolts? On most designs like this there is also meant to be a "pre load bolt" that stops the crank move outwards along its axis of rotation.

    The internet is awash with tales of these going missing and then the crank coming off.

    FSA Omega cranks seem famous for this. I can't imagine what made me look it up .....
  • Given your location, I might suggest Marshalls Cycles in Hertford as a reliable LBS. They do have a branch in WGC as well, but we prefer the people in the Hertford one. I'm picking my bike up from there only this afternoon after getting it properly checked out after 100 miles and a London winter.

    Also had some shiny new Hope Tech brakes fitted :D
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  • richred_ukrichred_uk Posts: 167
    RAK1963 wrote:
    I hope it all gets resolved to your satisfaction.

    Out of interest is it the sort of crank that appears to be held in place by two opposing allen bolts? On most designs like this there is also meant to be a "pre load bolt" that stops the crank move outwards along its axis of rotation.

    The internet is awash with tales of these going missing and then the crank coming off.

    FSA Omega cranks seem famous for this. I can't imagine what made me look it up .....

    Exactly this! They are FSA Omega and I can't see any "pre-load bolt" (what should I be looking for?). from what I can see there are just 2 opposing allen bolts that I re-tightened.
  • richred_ukrichred_uk Posts: 167
    Given your location, I might suggest Marshalls Cycles in Hertford as a reliable LBS. They do have a branch in WGC as well, but we prefer the people in the Hertford one. I'm picking my bike up from there only this afternoon after getting it properly checked out after 100 miles and a London winter.

    Also had some shiny new Hope Tech brakes fitted :D

    Cheers I'll check them out - the WGC one is literally a stone's throw from my front door, but I've never seemed to properly 'click' with them and was looking for a more road bike oriented LBS - I'll have to take a turn up to the Hertford one to see if I click better there.

    And for a general update - no reply to my email to Evans - will visit the branch I ordered it from on Saturday - see what they suggest.

    Rich
  • GPierottiGPierotti Posts: 104
    Had similar experiences with them mate. Bought my bike, rear shock was fitted upside down then front spoke tension was all wrong so wheel collapsed badly and 2 weeks of arguing with their USELESS head office i pick my new wheel up tomorrow
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    Slightly derailing, but just wanna say that when I picked my bike up for the 1st time from Edinborough bikes a while back, the handlebars were not tightened properly in the stem - came loose on the ride home! Also after a fork replacement, the front disk brake (the actual callipers where they are mounted on the fork) came loose on the way home too...

    But at the same time, my friend says his dad swears by their service, so it can vary, but still...


    In your case it may be a one off - was not tightened properly at the factory and I'm not sure if cranks are checked too much at the shop assembly?
  • deswellerdesweller Posts: 5,271
    Obviously the missed service is totally irrelevant. If they're finding that they have to make major adjustments on a significant number of bikes that come in for their first service then they should be examining their assembly procedures as a matter of the greatest urgency as they're clearly very flawed.
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  • gaz545gaz545 Posts: 493
    sales of good act
    use these terms and you will instasntly get their backs up. Oh, and use the legally and grammatically correct "Sale of goods act"

    You've had the item for 6 months (regardless of your use) and it has developed a fault that could be user generated. In that time you missed the first service (which bike shops offer to satisfy warranty conditions and the SOGA). While you are lucky that it didn't do you any damage, legally you probably don't have a leg to stand on. If you're nice to them they may fix it for free but they don't have to.

    Realistically all you can threaten them with is reputation damage on forums like this and their social networks.

    This is correct, you will have difficulties using the sales of goods act on them.
    I have recently returned a bike to Evans under the sales of goods act - not fit for purpose. But i had done so under the 6 month period and the bike had been in for service 7 times in the time period i had owned it.
  • gaz545gaz545 Posts: 493
    sales of good act
    use these terms and you will instasntly get their backs up. Oh, and use the legally and grammatically correct "Sale of goods act"

    You've had the item for 6 months (regardless of your use) and it has developed a fault that could be user generated. In that time you missed the first service (which bike shops offer to satisfy warranty conditions and the SOGA). While you are lucky that it didn't do you any damage, legally you probably don't have a leg to stand on. If you're nice to them they may fix it for free but they don't have to.

    Realistically all you can threaten them with is reputation damage on forums like this and their social networks.

    This is correct, you will have difficulties using the sales of goods act on them.
    I have recently returned a bike to Evans under the sales of goods act - not fit for purpose. But i had done so under the 6 month period and the bike had been in for service 7 times in the time period i had owned it.
  • SketchleySketchley Posts: 4,235
    The time limit on the sale of goods act is six years. See here

    http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/t ... explained/
    3 When can a customer claim a refund, repair or replacement – what the law saysCustomers return goods to retailers every day and many of them ask for refunds.

    Circumstances when customers do not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement

    Customers do not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement from you if they

    accidentally damaged the item
    misused it and caused a fault
    tried to repair it themselves or had someone else try to repair it, which damaged the item
    if they knew it was faulty before they bought it
    if they decide they no longer want the item (for example it's the wrong size or colour, or does not suit them).
    There are a few exceptions to this rule, including goods sold by mail order or over the internet - see the section Your customers' rights when they buy goods online, by telephone or by mail order - and some goods sold to a customer during a visit to their home.

    Circumstances when customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement

    Customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement if an item they purchased

    does not match the description
    is not of satisfactory quality
    is not fit for purpose.
    Each of these circumstances would mean that the item does not conform to contract and therefore it can be described as faulty. The next section of this guide, Your responsibilities as a retailer, provides a full explanation.

    If you point out a fault to a customer and they are able to inspect that fault before they make a purchase, their purchase means they have accepted the fault and they cannot claim their legal right (outlined above) in relation to that particular fault.

    Customers' rights last for six years

    The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).

    This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear.

    The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.

    Complying with the law

    You cannot remove a customer's legal rights, for example by displaying a notice saying 'we do not give refunds under any circumstances' or 'credit notes only in the case of faulty items'.

    It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • richred_uk wrote:
    OK I guess I brought it on myself somewhat by ignoring the voices saying don't go to Evans, but the guys at the Cut branch were really sound, helpful and seemed knowledgeable.

    Unfortunately my bike was then built by a monkey in their central mail order warehouse.

    So tonight, doing about 30 mph coming down a hill on the way home, the non-drive side crank arm detached itself and bounced along the road while I looked at a bit of nothing where my pedal was supposed to be.

    I can only think that they didn't tighten the allan key nuts enough when building the thing.

    Worried now about damage to the arm, possible shearing at the edge of the bottom bracket bit it fixes to, and I've lost the cadence sensor magnet bit that was attached to the arm.

    Suggestions? I've sent their warranty dept an email saying I need a call 1st thing, and am leaning strongly towards taking it into my LBS for a check over/ service 1st thing tomorrow to make sure nothing else has been shoddily built.

    Rich

    Hi Rich,

    I'm sorry to hear that the arm came off your bike. Please send your contact details and purchase details of your bike to [email protected] and I will look into it and will help you to sort it out.

    Kind regards,
    Balint @ Evans Cycles
  • kurakokurako Posts: 1,098
    I hope you get this sorted out but I can't believe no-one has pointed out the obvious problem. Evans is just a patsy in all this. When it comes to this sort of thing there really is only one recourse...

    BLAME WIGGLE!!

    :D
  • chillingchilling Posts: 267
    'm sorry to hear that the arm came off your bike. Please send your contact details and purchase details of your bike to [email protected] and I will look into it and will help you to sort it out.

    It's a crank.

    But I applaud the fact that what seems like an Evans employee has bothered to reply on a bank holiday.
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