Brake Pad Advice

rainglow

Hi

I have recently bought a new bike which came with Hayes Stroker Ryde hydraulic disc brakes.
After taking her out for numerous rides the brakes have now bed in. However, I have noticed that after a long and very steep descent I get major turkey gobble from the rear brake. So much so that the whole bike vibrates through the frame when the brake is applied, even on level ground! The brake lever feels the same and there is no sign of leaking fluid.

My guess is that the heat is baking the pads and causing the surface to become smoothed/glazed over. The problem resolves when I next ride the bike and "bed the pads" again.

The pads seem to be semi-metallic and I ride XC in typical UK weather conditions. Is it worth switching to another pad compound, such as organic, which are more heat resistant but have a shorter life/poorer grip in the wet?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

Macster1

I'm still using the same Organic compound pads [Avid] that came with my bike 2 years ago and I have used them in all weathers, on road, through mud etc, etc and they still haven't worn out. Bike is used nigh on every day too so they get plenty of work.

So, I can recommend organic

Atz

You've had organic last 2 years? I had one set go in two rides and the set that came on my bike wore out in under 10 rides and most of those weren't in the worst conditions.

To the OP, go to superstar components, buy four sets of pads for 25 quid and mix the compounds so you can try to see what works best for you.

Macster1

Yes, I kid you not!

Rockhopper Pro Disc, bought May 2009 and still on the same pads, which were organic as standard.

I recently went to my LBS to get new ones [me thinking they looked a bit low] but they said I still had life left in them and just to keep an eye on them. I ride on average a minimum of 10 miles a day [most days], in all weathers, except snow :roll:

I'll replace like for like when I do but maybe I just got lucky with these 8)

Anonymous

I've had organic pads last ages as well. However, on the flipside, I've also had a set of organics dissappear within a single ride

rainglow

Atz wrote:

To the OP, go to superstar components, buy four sets of pads for 25 quid and mix the compounds so you can try to see what works best for you.

Thanks for pointing me to that website. I may just buy a single set and trial those.
However, I'm still undecided as to which compound type would be most appropriate to resolve the problem I describe.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I've had organic pads last ages as well. However, on the flipside, I've also had a set of organics dissappear within a single ride

Opinions on organic pads seem to differ from cyclist to cyclist! I guess there's only one way to find out for sure.

On the other hand, my braking technique along steep sections (essentially bricking it and engaging the brake almost continually) may need improving somewhat in order to avoid overheating the brakes :oops: . That seems to be the main cause of the issue here. Short sharp bursts vs drag.

Anonymous

If you've got overheating issues, then sintered pads will exasperate the problem. And that's true no matter how exasperated is spelt.

Atz

Doesn't matter how it's spelled, the word you're looking for is actually "exacerbate" unless you somehow mean that the brakepads do to his bike what you do to the forums :twisted:

Anonymous

That's the word, yes!

cee

try taking a bit of clean fresh sandpaper to the braking compound on the pads to rough them up a wee bit.....

sometimes gets rid of th eturkey gobble....

pads will last different amounts of time depending not only on where you ride....but even in the same place on a different day, you can different life expectancy....

like yeehaa...I have trashed full sets of pads in less than a day....

i have also had the same type of pads last months.

rhialto

I have purchased many pairs of Superstar pads. The last 2 pairs were sintered. They lasted for months over the winter in the gritty mud. My issue with them was the noise. On any extended descent they howled like a banshee. With the dry weather I switched to Superstar's organic pads. Ahhh, all's quiet now. On the downside, I know that the organics would last only a couple of weeks in the grinding paste that passes for trails surfaces around here after a good rain.

Atz

The kevlars are a nice balance. Mine stop very well, possibly a little too well at times

red eye

turky gobble = vibration? stop the pads from vibrating in the calliper with a bit copper grease on the back of the pads. or you can get stick on pads from motor factors

Anonymous

red eye wrote:

turky gobble = vibration? stop the pads from vibrating in the calliper with a bit copper grease on the back of the pads. or you can get stick on pads from motor factors

NOOOOOOO.
It's considered bad advice to stick copper grease on MTB brake pads.

red eye

yeehaamcgee wrote:

red eye wrote:

turky gobble = vibration? stop the pads from vibrating in the calliper with a bit copper grease on the back of the pads. or you can get stick on pads from motor factors

NOOOOOOO.
It's considered bad advice to stick copper grease on MTB brake pads.

the back of the pads! only a retarded inbred would put lube on the braking surface.

copper grease is used to stop the pads vibrating. been doing this for years in the motor trade, every garage does it even the dealers apart from merc they have special blue goo in their re branded, ATE manufactured OME pads which you can get alot cheaper from motor factors. same pads just different boxes :roll:

Atz

I think he meant it's not recommended to put copper grease on the back of MTB pads.

Also, why on earth would motor factors sell MTB pads?

Anonymous

red eye wrote:

copper grease is used to stop the pads vibrating. been doing this for years in the motor trade,

Yes, I know. Doesn't work so well on MTB pads though. Nicklouse can give you specifics, but it's basically down to the amount of heat generated in the braking system. On a car, even though the grease can still migrate to the braking material, it will readily be burnt off completely when using the brakes. On a bike, any contamination will not be burnt away.

red eye

were did I say factors sell mtb pads? I did say they sell anti squeal stick on pads which is an alternative to copper grease

why is it not recommended to put copper grease on the back of mtb pads?
mtb brakes generate nowhere near the melting point of copper grease

red eye

yeehaamcgee wrote:

red eye wrote:

copper grease is used to stop the pads vibrating. been doing this for years in the motor trade,

Yes, I know. Doesn't work so well on MTB pads though. Nicklouse can give you specifics, but it's basically down to the amount of heat generated in the braking system. On a car, even though the grease can still migrate to the braking material, it will readily be burnt off completely when using the brakes. On a bike, any contamination will not be burnt away.

i have copper grease on my pads and its never made its way to the pads, I guess how much you put on matters I only ever put on a light smear were it is needed.

shims made out of coke cans work too!

Anonymous

I've had a few pads where there is a hole in the backing (intentionally) where the brake material keys into for a solid connection. I tried copper grease on those, and within a few days, although my brakes were silent, the perfomrance was totally borked.

Atz

How would shims help squeeling? All you're going to do is move the pads closer to the disk.

red eye

Atz wrote:

How would shims help squeeling? All you're going to do is move the pads closer to the disk.

No you need to think how is the pad vibrating, for the pad to vibrate there must be a gap. applying the brake will eliminate the gap between the piston and pad so no vibrations there. have a look were the pad sits in the calliper.

applying copper grease to the back of the pads would make the pad stick to the piston pulling it away from the disc and stopping the vibration

copper grease on the edge of the pad backing plate were it sits in the calliper will stop it squealing when the brakes are applied

a coke can is less then a mill thick any time to replace pads you should push the pistons home as it takes up the wear in the pad. you can use any thing really cooking foil chewing gum dog shit what ever your imagination can come up with

red eye

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I've had a few pads where there is a hole in the backing (intentionally) where the brake material keys into for a solid connection. I tried copper grease on those, and within a few days, although my brakes were silent, the perfomrance was totally borked.

I see what you mean, you put quite a bit on?

when I started out I was always told never to get copper slip on the pad only on the backing plate, so thats kinda stuck I never put on more then a smear and only were its needed

Anonymous

No, it was only a smear, but it migrated to the braking material.
Remeber, there's all kind of water, mud and other crap, waiting for an opportunity to assist the copperslip on it's merry way to the friction material.
Crud is a bit of a c*nt like that.

red eye

yeehaamcgee wrote:

No, it was only a smear, but it migrated to the braking material.
Remeber, there's all kind of water, mud and other crap, waiting for an opportunity to assist the copperslip on it's merry way to the friction material.
Crud is a bit of a c*nt like that.

Ok so the best thing to use is that blue gunk
http://www.dasautosport.com/khxc/ecom-prodshow/ate_plastilube.html

Anonymous

Not really. Best thing is nothing at all. If brakes are squaling, it's usually because of pad contamination, or just that they're sintered pads.

rainglow

yeehaamcgee wrote:

If you've got overheating issues, then sintered pads will exasperate the problem. And that's true no matter how exasperated is spelt.

Yes, I've read they can get quite hot and, as you say, exacerbate the problem. So, organic pads are probably the best choice to try out.

cee wrote:

try taking a bit of clean fresh sandpaper to the braking compound on the pads to rough them up a wee bit.....

Yesterday I removed both front and rear pads. Plenty of life left in both sets. However, I noticed that the rear set shimmered in the light, whereas the front were matted. I sanded them down, reinstalled them and the problem was resolved.
I have pretty much confirmed that it is the pads themselves causing the problem. Although, whilst sanding them is great after a ride, it's not a practical option out on the trails.

red eye wrote:

turky gobble = vibration? stop the pads from vibrating in the calliper with a bit copper grease on the back of the pads. or you can get stick on pads from motor factors

I'll try and avoid this if possible due to many people believing it's bad practice. I'm not entirely convinced it would work either. I only get vibration when the pads are glazed and not at any other time. This has me thinking that, in my case at least, it's more to do with the surface composition of the pad rather than the backing? I appreciate the vibration must be being transferred through the pad but by that stage I have loss of braking power so it's probably too little too late. But that's in my opinion of limited knowledge. I stand corrected otherwise.

red eye wrote:

No you need to think how is the pad vibrating, for the pad to vibrate there must be a gap. applying the brake will eliminate the gap between the piston and pad so no vibrations there. have a look were the pad sits in the calliper. applying copper grease to the back of the pads would make the pad stick to the piston pulling it away from the disc and stopping the vibration

Also, I have vibration when the brake is applied so I don't quite understand how what you describe above could help? :?

Overall, I think the key is to try and alter my braking technique and if that doesn't work then try out some different pads.

Johnny Napalm

I've got Superstar sintered recently and you can now hear me coming from miles away.