Contador on Evans

josame

if -note I didn't use upper case- Bertie is a doper, I take it he dosen't dope for one day races otherwise this is as hollow as the frame he rides...

“I saw on the web that he (Evans) is not going to be riding the Classics. I think it’s a real shame because he’s a rider who is a specialist in this kind of race. He’s already won before and riding races like this you always want to test yourself against the very best riders. The level won’t be quite as high because of his absence,” said the Spaniard.CN.

allaction

I think he's praising Cadel isn't he?

josame

I'm sure he is, but does that have any value if he is cheating to beat Evans??

LangerDan

I think bertie is trying to make some form of syllogistic argument

"Cadel is regarded as clean
Cadel is a top-level competitor
I compete at the top level, against riders like Cadel
My performances can therefore be regarded as being the "equal" of clean riders so I, too, must be clean."

Perhaps he could just have his drug-riddled cow race Cadel's dog and avoid this messy cycling business altogether.

dennisn

josame wrote:

I'm sure he is, but does that have any value if he is cheating to beat Evans??

Whether what AC said has any value is strictly up to you. AC is a guy who probably has to endure walking around with microphones in his face pretty much 24-7-365. Everything he says gets read or heard by bunches of people. He was commenting on Cadel Evans, who is probably a friend, or at least a coworker. He was probably responding to a question about Cadel. How did you read dope into any of that? I'm sure that if you don't want to listen to him, or even acknowledge that he exists, that he's OK with that. He's probably OK with whether you think he doped or not.

Ash_

Hmmmmmmmm...

Maybe I'm just a bit of a simpleton and have missed something very, very subtle in the original quote in this thread, but I can't help thinking that there's enough intrigue, speculation, dodginess, skullduggery and stupidity in cycling at the minute without trying to find any more through analysing the cliched platitudes being trotted out by Contador because Evans will not be at a race tomorrow and that he (Evans) is quite a good rider.

Or something.

dennisn

Ash_ wrote:

Hmmmmmmmm...

Maybe I'm just a bit of a simpleton and have missed something very, very subtle in the original quote in this thread, but I can't help thinking that there's enough intrigue, speculation, dodginess, skullduggery and stupidity in cycling at the minute without trying to find any more through analysing the cliched platitudes being trotted out by Contador because Evans will not be at a race tomorrow and that he (Evans) is quite a good rider.

Or something.

I THINK I'm with you. I believe he's something of a human in a birdcage. How many of us
would want to be in that sort of situation? Every little move or sound analysed to the Nth degree? Quite possibly everything blown completely out of proportion. All this for simply winning a bike race when all he really wanted to do was win that race then relax on some beach with friends and family, then think about winning another race. In many ways I tend to empathize with celeb's of all sorts in their battle to "get these people away from me".

roadiesean

IN short. Contador is an ar5e who sounds like an ar5e even when he is trying to say something nice. Whats the saying ? Looks like sh%t, smells like sh%t, wonder if it tastes like it ?

Evans is an interesting guy (in an odd sort of a way) but at least you can trust him - if for no other reason than he absolutely turns himself inside out to keep up with guys like Contador who look like they are on a Sunday amble with their 12 year old daughter in tow. I think people who are racing up the Tourmalet et al should look like they are doing something......sweating at least.

josame

dennisn wrote:

josame wrote:

I'm sure he is, but does that have any value if he is cheating to beat Evans??

Whether what AC said has any value is strictly up to you. AC is a guy who probably has to endure walking around with microphones in his face pretty much 24-7-365. Everything he says gets read or heard by bunches of people. He was commenting on Cadel Evans, who is probably a friend, or at least a coworker. He was probably responding to a question about Cadel. How did you read dope into any of that? I'm sure that if you don't want to listen to him, or even acknowledge that he exists, that he's OK with that. He's probably OK with whether you think he doped or not.

Wow that set me right...if only I'd known before I sat down to write my piece!

P_Tucker

Ash_ wrote:

Hmmmmmmmm...

Maybe I'm just a bit of a simpleton and have missed something very, very subtle in the original quote in this thread, but I can't help thinking that there's enough intrigue, speculation, dodginess, skullduggery and stupidity in cycling at the minute without trying to find any more through analysing the cliched platitudes being trotted out by Contador because Evans will not be at a race tomorrow and that he (Evans) is quite a good rider.

Or something.

As someone who manufactures tinfoil hats and high horses for a living, I strongly disagree with you.

josame

Ash_ wrote:

Hmmmmmmmm...

Maybe I'm just a bit of a simpleton and have missed something very, very subtle in the original quote in this thread, but I can't help thinking that there's enough intrigue, speculation, dodginess, skullduggery and stupidity in cycling at the minute without trying to find any more through analysing the cliched platitudes being trotted out by Contador because Evans will not be at a race tomorrow and that he (Evans) is quite a good rider.

Or something.

The only thing I read into it is that Bertie is making a big deal of how good Evans (a generally acknowledge clean rider) is - and this smacks (to me) of being very sad...if Contador really is doping

Maybe Bertie thinks Evans dopes - I wonder about his mindset

dennisn

josame wrote:

dennisn wrote:

josame wrote:

I'm sure he is, but does that have any value if he is cheating to beat Evans??

Whether what AC said has any value is strictly up to you. AC is a guy who probably has to endure walking around with microphones in his face pretty much 24-7-365. Everything he says gets read or heard by bunches of people. He was commenting on Cadel Evans, who is probably a friend, or at least a coworker. He was probably responding to a question about Cadel. How did you read dope into any of that? I'm sure that if you don't want to listen to him, or even acknowledge that he exists, that he's OK with that. He's probably OK with whether you think he doped or not.

Wow that set me right...if only I'd known before I sat down to write my piece!

Glad I could be of help in stating the obvious. All I'm saying is that you may believe whatever you want. That AC is good, bad, or ugly. That he is a doper or a victim of circumstance. Anything you want to think is fine. i just see a guy who had a microphone shoved into his face and was asked to comment on a fellow employee(if you will). What would you say if asked about one of your friends / coworkers?

josame

Dennis:'Glad I could be of help in stating the obvious. All I'm saying is that you may believe whatever you want. That AC is good, bad, or ugly. That he is a doper or a victim of circumstance. Anything you want to think is fine. i just see a guy who had a microphone shoved into his face and was asked to comment on a fellow employee(if you will). What would you say if asked about one of your friends / coworkers?[/quote]'

This gets to the very heart of my complaint...

'What would you say if asked about one of your friends / coworkers?[/quote]'

But I wouldn't have cheated and that was my point... one of the (lesser) reasons I wouldn't cheat is that I wouldn't know how to comment about my fellow riders when asked about them!!! (And this is especially true when that coworker is renowned as being clean)

P_Tucker

Whats the view like from up there?

josame

P_Tucker wrote:

Whats the view like from up there?

Oh it's ok there are few lazy posters but that's about it...

dennisn

josame wrote:

Dennis:'Glad I could be of help in stating the obvious. All I'm saying is that you may believe whatever you want. That AC is good, bad, or ugly. That he is a doper or a victim of circumstance. Anything you want to think is fine. i just see a guy who had a microphone shoved into his face and was asked to comment on a fellow employee(if you will). What would you say if asked about one of your friends / coworkers?

'

This gets to the very heart of my complaint...

'What would you say if asked about one of your friends / coworkers?[/quote]'

But I wouldn't have cheated and that was my point... one of the (lesser) reasons I wouldn't cheat is that I wouldn't know how to comment about my fellow riders when asked about them!!! (And this is especially true when that coworker is renowned as being clean)[/quote]

So, I see now. This was never about something that AC said about another rider. You just wanted to vent that AC was a cheat. You did that post to simply remind us(and vent)
that AC has done something wrong. Talk about stating the obvious. Not too many people on this forum missed "The AC Soap Opera" in case you didn't know. IMHO you need to learn to deal with things like this in life instead of carrying a grudge.

dougzz

Dennis old chap. To save you the effort of posting and us of reading just imagine we've took all your posts for the last year and done a search and replace on Lance with Bertie.
It'll save us all a lot of time.

dennisn

dougzz wrote:

Dennis old chap. To save you the effort of posting and us of reading just imagine we've took all your posts for the last year and done a search and replace on Lance with Bertie.
It'll save us all a lot of time.

OK, got it.

MrTapir

Wouldnt have this been said in Spanish to start with? The translation has probably put it into the manufactured-sounding phrases...

Also, talking about friends in the peloton, wasn't there something recently about Evans and how annoyed he was about getting beaten by people who dope?

rick_chasey

Sounds like Contador's playing mind games.

"Cadel is a specialist classics rider" i.e. not a GT specialist.

dulldave

I know dennisn is normally a bit of a stirrer but I have to agree with him here. Contador is a doper but he probably doesn't see himself as being a cheat. He sounds like he's just giving an opinion on the fact that Evans won't be racing.

He probably respects Evans and it just sounds like he's saying so.

bigmat

Sounds to me like Contador is saying its a less strong field than it might have been because last year's winner isn't riding? What's with all the deep analysis?!

josame

This isn't deep!! it's as light as a feather:

a) Contador 'may' dope / Evans 'likely' doesn't
b) Contador says he likes to compete against the best
and ....(drum roll!!!)

c) Contador is deluding himself because he can can never see Evans best effort
because Evans doesn't cheat and they are not on a level playing field.

That's it!

RichN95.

BigMat wrote:

Sounds to me like Contador is saying its a less strong field than it might have been because last year's winner isn't riding? What's with all the deep analysis?!

Exactly, and that's it. The same sort of stuff sportsmen say every day. They want to compete aginst the best and if they're missing it devalues the competition a little.

For example, the weekend before last my hockey club won the Welsh Cup, but (for reasons I won't go into) our main rivals weren't in the competition so everyone was somewhat underwhelmed by the whole thing. The next day we won the 2nd XI cup, beating our main rivals in the final. As a result this was a much bigger deal to us than the main cup.

josame

RichN95 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Sounds to me like Contador is saying its a less strong field than it might have been because last year's winner isn't riding? What's with all the deep analysis?!

Exactly, and that's it. The same sort of stuff sportsmen say every day. They want to compete aginst the best and if they're missing it devalues the competition a little.

For example, the weekend before last my hockey club won the Welsh Cup, but (for reasons I won't go into) our main rivals weren't in the competition so everyone was somewhat underwhelmed by the whole thing. The next day we won the 2nd XI cup, beating our main rivals in the final. As a result this was a much bigger deal to us than the main cup.

I give up...(I'm now being told about a hockey match :roll:) ...thrusts hands in pockets and mimes kicking leaves in the park.

Spiny_Norman

josame wrote:

This isn't deep!! it's as light as a feather:

a) Contador 'may' dope / Evans 'likely' doesn't
b) Contador says he likes to compete against the best
and ....(drum roll!!!)

c) Contador is deluding himself because he can can never see Evans best effort
because Evans doesn't cheat and they are not on a level playing field.

That's it!

Er, right. Let's break that c) down a bit. As I see it, you're saying:

c)
i. Evans is clean
ii. Evans would better if he doped
iii. Therefore, competing against Evans can never be the same as competing against the best

Everyone else is looking at this and concluding:

1. Evans is a strong classics rider
2. Whether he dopes or not is irrelevant to the fact that he has consistently performed well
3. Therefore, regardless of doping, he is quite clearly a strong contender whose presence in a field would be required if you wanted to say you'd competed against the best

Whether AC's juiced or not, Evans is still one of the top riders in the field. Whether either or both of those riders are doping may interest you personally, but it's irrelevant to the question of whether Evans is part of "the best". You're reading way too much into this.

josame

Spiny I conceed you are right regarding the classics...I opened it up a bit and went to the GT's with my point - usiing your logic how does it look when we consider the GT's?

I agree tho - Contador is not talking about GT's

My main gripe was here is a doper commending a non doper and it just made me feel uneasy - does Contador ask himself why evans is not 'so' good in the 3 weekers??

dulldave

This is the type of conversation we're supposed to be having in winter when there's nothing to talk about. So we just invent stuff where it doesn't exist. Post this up again in November an it'll get about 20 pages.

josame

yeah ok I'll do that

lets move on...

dbb

how do we know that Evans is clean?

ratsbeyfus

dulldave wrote:

I know dennisn is normally a bit of a stirrer but I have to agree with him here. Contador is a doper but he probably doesn't see himself as being a cheat. He sounds like he's just giving an opinion on the fact that Evans won't be racing.

He probably respects Evans and it just sounds like he's saying so.

Gotta agree with you and Dennisn... there's nothing to see here. Move on.