Middle management where are you in the hierarchy?

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Comments

  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    But the line manager, for the sake of being professional, may have to carry out his duties in a fashion that exudes 'unified front'.

    Additionally. This is not always good management. Far from it in fact.

    Management is nothing to do with making it look like everything/everyone is always in agreement and everything is rosey just so there is a united front. If anything, I think all the 'united front' stuff is very bad management.

    The best managers I have ever had treat you like an adult/not a dimwit and accept people do get and are sometimes miffed/upset but they deal with it to stillg get the best out of that person.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited April 2011
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Point i'm making is it doesn't.

    You can either assume I am telling the truth and I know my company slightly better than you do.

    or

    you know better than I do and I am therefore not allowed to contribute any more! :D

    Seriously though, you asked the question why they are not always popular. I gave you my opinion as to why they are sometimes not. You can't really disagree with my opinion. It's mine.... so get off!

    CHILL! I don't think I'm outright disagreeing with you. Or even saying you're mistaken.

    All I'm saying is that:

    1). There are occasions where the Middle Manager may be challenging/openly disagreeing with Senior Management behind closed doors.

    2). This action might be something you or any staff member in another organisation will not be aware of.

    3). It happens, it could be happening and it is not beyond the realms of it happening.

    I'm offering an alternate perspective. This is not limited to you, your organisation or anyother staff and/or managers. It is still a plausible circumstance not limited by right or wrong.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Think of it this way - if you work underneath middle management, given that they're likely to be paid more:

    The company values them more than you.....
    _
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    It doesn't have to be the case or be limited by something as short sighted as right and wrong.

    Yeah, thats middle management speak right there...

    ;)
    FCN 4 PX SL Pro SRAM Red
    FCN 8 Scott Sportster '05
  • SimonAH
    SimonAH Posts: 3,730
    I work for a global company.

    I have nobody beneath me.

    I report to the M.D.

    ????? Is there a technical term for this level?
    FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
    CAADX 105 beastie for bumpy bits
    Litespeed L3 for Strava bits

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    SimonAH wrote:
    I work for a global company.

    I have nobody beneath me.

    I report to the M.D.

    ????? Is there a technical term for this level?
    Secretary?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • SimonAH
    SimonAH Posts: 3,730
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    SimonAH wrote:
    I work for a global company.

    I have nobody beneath me.

    I report to the M.D.

    ????? Is there a technical term for this level?
    Secretary?

    Haha! I'll straighten my stockings :D
    FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
    CAADX 105 beastie for bumpy bits
    Litespeed L3 for Strava bits

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Point i'm making is it doesn't.

    You can either assume I am telling the truth and I know my company slightly better than you do.

    or

    you know better than I do and I am therefore not allowed to contribute any more! :D

    Seriously though, you asked the question why they are not always popular. I gave you my opinion as to why they are sometimes not. You can't really disagree with my opinion. It's mine.... so get off!

    CHILL! I don't think I'm outright disagreeing with you. Or even saying you're mistaken.

    All I'm saying is that:

    1). There are occasions where the Middle Manager may be challenging/openly disagreeing with Senior Management behind closed doors.

    2). This action might be something you or any staff member in another organisation will not be aware of.

    3). It happens, it could be happening and it is not beyond the realms of it happening.

    I'm offering an alternate perspective. This is not limited to you, your organisation or anyother staff and/or managers. It is still a plausible circumstance not limited by right or wrong.

    I am chilled (hence the smile), I appreciate what you are saying but I was talking about the specific times where middle management don't challenge and just use the 'it's not my descision' get out. Specifically those occasions are the thing that I don't like with middle management (I was answering a question you asked remember).

    We now seem to be in a twilight zone where we are discussing something that isn't, and I have never said is an issue for me.

    I think you won though. Your middle management speak did it (the right vs wrong comment).

    :wink: (Note the smiley!!)
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Think of it this way - if you work underneath middle management, given that they're likely to be paid more:

    The company values them more than you.....

    "Likely" being the key word there.

    I am paid more than my manager. He is a better manager than I will ever be and I am better at my role than he is. We both mutually respect that.
    My manager is a "good guy" who has worked his way up but there are others at the same level that make me wonder how they got the job.
    My value is that I have an in-demand skill and not easilly replaced.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    daviesee wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Think of it this way - if you work underneath middle management, given that they're likely to be paid more:

    The company values them more than you.....

    "Likely" being the key word there.

    I am paid more than my manager. He is a better manager than I will ever be and I am better at my role than he is. We both mutually respect that.
    My manager is a "good guy" who has worked his way up but there are others at the same level that make me wonder how they got the job.
    My value is that I have an in-demand skill and not easilly replaced.

    I'm usually pretty accurate with my writing.

    I don't throw in "apparently" , "probably" "usually" and "unlikely" just because I think it sounds cool.
    _
  • Slack
    Slack Posts: 326
    Most middle management I've come across are 'yes' peolple. They say the right thing at the right time, or play the 'game'. They are happy being bots, spreading the company bullshit and propoganda. Most of them are sanctimonious 'jobsworth's'.

    Some managers though can control their ego and are quite supportive in their role, and prefer to manage by generally being decent and fair human beings.

    I have this fault where I decide whether I like someone or not within 5 mins. I say this because in an interview I had last week, I took an almost instant dislike to the potential future line manager. So if I'm lucky enough to get back onto my feet, I shall hopefully be finding a manager I am happy to work with.
    Plymouthsteve for councillor!!
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Think of it this way - if you work underneath middle management, given that they're likely to be paid more:

    The company values them more than you.....

    "Likely" being the key word there.

    I am paid more than my manager. He is a better manager than I will ever be and I am better at my role than he is. We both mutually respect that.
    My manager is a "good guy" who has worked his way up but there are others at the same level that make me wonder how they got the job.
    My value is that I have an in-demand skill and not easilly replaced.

    I'm usually pretty accurate with my writing.

    I don't throw in "apparently" , "probably" "usually" and "unlikely" just because I think it sounds cool.

    "Usually" :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    @Slack

    You are forgetting the 'middle' managers that are best described as "empire builders". Normally so insecure about thier own abilities they will say no to any change, make sure higher management make all the decision, CC everybody in every email, blame everybody / anybody else (senior management when talking to employee and employees when talking to senior management), take credit for other poeples work both (senior managmeent and employees), and only buy IBM because you don't get fires for buying IBM.

    These people are much worse than jobsworths or yes men / women. They are actively out to create thier own position of power within an organisation when they do this sucessfully they become entrenched and a real barrier to change within organisation which effect both employees and senior management.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Ah all this chat of middle management stinks of the green-eyed monster.
    _
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    i was given the job/ role "IT Manager" last year but im the only person in the IT department

    does this make me upper, lower and middle management?
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ah all this chat of middle management stinks of the green-eyed monster.

    +1
    FCN 4 PX SL Pro SRAM Red
    FCN 8 Scott Sportster '05
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    mudcow007 wrote:
    i was given the job/ role "IT Manager" last year but im the only person in the IT department

    does this make me upper, lower and middle management?

    Brilliant!

    Actual past discussion with a previous MD on accepting a job offer -

    "What will my job title be?"

    "Whatever you like. You will be paid the same."
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,391
    mudcow007 wrote:
    i was given the job/ role "IT Manager" last year but im the only person in the IT department

    does this make me upper, lower and middle management?

    Surely it means you are managing 'The IT'.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ah all this chat of middle management stinks of the green-eyed monster.

    Not really.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ah all this chat of middle management stinks of the green-eyed monster.

    Actually not in my case. I'm both a shareholder and employee. I've watched the company I work grow from 3 employees to 100. I've dealt with contless people from all organisation in all business sectors at all levels. Empire builders I can spot a mile away and really get my back up, particularly as it seems impossible for them to comprehend that some people are not playing the same game they are and therefor treat everything said by anybody else as suspicious.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    rjsterry wrote:

    Surely it means you are managing 'The IT'.

    is that like "tag your IT"?

    or the clown it? :shock: pennywise-clown-it.jpg
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    That clown was the clown that made me not like clowns.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    That clown was the clown that made me not like clowns.

    all joking aside tis true for me, i hate clowns since seeing this film. they give me the "willies" ha!
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • pianoleo
    pianoleo Posts: 135
    At this moment I'm truly happy I'm self employed, even if it does mean I have unwanted holiday this week... :P

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