Front wheel washing out (with a little pic).

Johnny Napalm

I have a Kenda Nevegal on the front, which up to today has felt pretty good. Recently I've been trying to push myself to ride faster, and I am having good and bad days. While out riding today, the front wheel has slid from underneath me on quite a few occassions and I would like peoples' advice as to why this is happening all of a sudden.

It is because -

- I'm trying to ride faster and not handling the bike correctly? (I am trying to be in the attack position, chest over front end, looking ahead, leaning bike etc.)

- Because it's dry and the pine needles etc. are causing the issue?

- That particular tyre is no use in these condidtions?

- I'm crap?

- Combination of the above?

Andy B

Pine needles can be like ball bearings

What tyre pressure you running? maybe try a little lower for more grip?

Nevegals are pretty good all rounders as tyres go

Johnny Napalm

Cheers, Andy, I could probably lose a bit of pressure from the front. I haven't got a pressure guage, but it is pretty firm because I also like to climb hills. I guess I'll have to sacrifice some pressure to be on tha safe side.

Josh

Johnny Napalm wrote:

I have a Nevega, Nevegal on the front, which up to today has felt pretty good. Recently I've been trying to push myself to ride faster, and I am having good and bad days. While out riding today, the front wheel has slid from underneath me on quite a few occassions and I would like peoples' advice as to why this is happening all of a sudden.

It is because -

- I'm trying to ride faster and not handling the bike correctly? (I am trying to be in the attack position, chest over front end, looking ahead, leaning bike etc.)

- Because it's dry and the pine needles etc. are causing the issue?

- That particular tyre is no use in these condidtions?

- I'm crap?

- Combination of the above?

Hi Johnny. Could be any of those things - you're the only one there, so only you really know. It could also be something you missed out - that the tyre is as good as you'll get for the conditions, pressure's good, the riding position's fine, but there just isn't enough grip there to go round the corner as fast as you're trying to.

Without being there with you, it's impossible to comment on your riding position - you could be too far forwards or too far back, and you may want the bike to slide with both wheels, or just from the back - personal preference.

Your best bet is to try riding the same corner at different speeds, in different positions (and maybe with different tyre pressures), and learn the differences each change makes. Then you can work out for yourself what you need to do to get round the corner as fast as possible, what feels most comfortable, and where the limits of grip are. Personally,I always find that if I'm not properly balanced on a bike, it feels totally wrong immediately - so wrong that I'm not going to be attacking any corners. Your experience may be different.

Johnny Napalm

Cheers, Josh.

I think that I may be too far forward at times. I only have short arms, and no matter what bike I get on I always feel like I'm being pulled forward. I have a short (50mm / 10 degree rise) stem, and I have 50mm rise bars, but I still feel slightly too far forward.

I'm on the look out for some higher rise bars, which I'm hoping will make me feel more comfortable.

Josh

You may be able to compensate by bending your knees a little more, which can help shift your weight back - or maybe not, maybe your riding style is fine, but the bike's too long for you as it is and you need to change parts. Also, it can make a big difference if you ride with a heavy bag - just shifting it lower on your back can move your centre of gravity back a good inch or two.

Ideally, you and the bike should be perfectly balanced around the bottom bracket - that is, if you imagine you lifted the bike up using a long rod through the bottom bracket whilst you were standing on the pedals, it would stay level, not dip forward or rock back. Obviously, it won't be that perfect, but you get the idea.

kosul

Also check the rebound. Try faster , always works for better front traction.
If the fork is sticky it will also cause more washouts.

Some nevegals also have the side knobs torn very easily .
Check them all. If you see any ripped or about to get ripped give
the tyre back for replacement under guarrantee. It is a kenda
quality control problem.

Johnny Napalm

The rebound on the front fork is currently set quite fast, with the rear shock set relatively slow. I usually ride my HT more than anything, but the last few rides I've been taking out the FS.

I think I'll try to find some higher bars to see how that works too, but I think that reducing the pressure on the front tyre is worth a go...I'll just have to MTFU on the climbs.

Anonymous

Without seeing you ride, it sounds like one, or both, of two things...
Sounds to me like you're not forwards enough on the bike, in particular because of your comments about feeling "too far forward" even with a short stem. There's a psychological barrier (cycle-logical?) that makes it feel weird at first, but you really need to push that front wheel down into the ground hard.

Secondly, it could be bike positioning underneath you. Instead of leaning with the bike (this only really works at considerable speeds on pushbikes), lean the bike under you, but keep your body above it
Sort of (but not neccesarily quit as extreme as ) like

Johnny Napalm

Cycle-logical.

I know what you mean, Yeehaa, because it was only last year (after reading a few articles) that I started to get my chest over the from end and found that it did help - before that I just couldn't get myself to be over the front end as my brain wouldn't accept it was the right thing to do.

Being a shortarse (5' 6") I always feel like I'm too far forward (no matter which bike) and if I try to go over jumps etc. it feels like the bars are dragging me over rather that me going over all nice and level. I know it's down to me because I've seen kids smaller than me, on bikes that are too big for them, manage it, so it's not an excuse...and believe me, I've tried them all. :oops:

I'll lower the pressure today, and see what it feels like. There's no doubt about it, I am riding faster these days (not fast by most peoples' standards), but I am trying to push myself to do it. I supose the good thing is that nowadays I don't panic as much and jam the brakes on when things feel awkward.

That said, when I first started, I used to ride a Claud Buter Cape Wrath with Judy 80mm forks on, and I'm positive that I used to be more daring on that thing than I am on 140mm set-ups etc.

butcher of bakersfield

I was out yesterday. And to be honest, the pine needles gave me a bit of a shock. Very nearly fully washed out the front end myself..

It's been unusually dry for the time of year lately. Something I'm not used to at all! What? Dry weather up north?? And as Andy says, I guess since the pine needles aren't being pushed into the ground, they just roll over the top of each other. Like ball bearings. Certainly felt that way. Much worse than loose gravel.

So if that's where you've found yourself slipping, that's obviously a factor.

Been running some high pressures in mine too mind. At least 50psi, as I've been doing a mixture of on and off road, as well as railway paths in the nice weather..

Johnny Napalm

I never really understood when experienced riders complained about it being too dry (man, if I'm crap in the dry you ought to see me in the wet :oops: ), but now I do understand that it can be 'too dry' and that pine needles etc. can cause grip issues.

stubs

What model of Nevegal have you got some of the cheap OE ones you can buy seem to be made out of a mix of Teflon and plastic and grip like a drunk on ice.

thegiantbiker

I heard nevegals were supposed to be downhill-oriented?

They came stock on my bike, and the rear work quick and the front didn't grip very well after a month or two.

I just swapped them out for some maxxis ignitors that I had sitting around. Serious improvement in about 5 minutes.

Johnny Napalm

I know it's nothing too extreme, but I've been leaning the bike more often rather than lean with it, like in the pic, which I think 'm now starting to get used to.

Thewaylander

Depends on the bike a bit to the steepness of the terrain, as head angles can add up, My old stumpy would wash out way before my Dune.

And tyre pressure at the moment on the front im sitting at about 20psi for the grip on rolling rock and loose dirt at the moment.

The rest is techinique which Yee has filled out above.

yoohoo999

:idea:

Johnny Napalm

If you ever need tips on how to wash front wheels out, i'm an expert

Fenred

I thought Yeehaa's pic was pretty inspirational...Assuming he stayed on??

Yoohoo's is phenominal....For a one-legged rider!

cavegiant

Two things too add:

1: when cornering have 100% of your weight on the outside pedal, you would not believe how much difference this makes.

2: Not many people know the Nevegal was designed to be trimmed. For UK conditions the trye is considerably improved by cutting off every other of the transition knobs.

ralph1471

yoohoo999 wrote:

If you ever need tips on how to wash front wheels out, i'm an expert

hahaha great photo!

Johnny Napalm

Not that I focussed on that area in particular, but I love that he's got some sort of leaf cod-piece.

Johnny Napalm

when cornering have 100% of your weight on the outside pedal, you would not believe how much difference this makes

I've been practicing this today, CG, and you are so right...I've already seen an improvement this morning. These things are so obvious once someone points them out.[/quote]