TdF - Most boring race of the year.....

Neil Buckley

According to Oscar Freire and the Classics should be in the summer and the Tour only gets it coverage because of the lack of major sports in the summer. Interesting observation.

frenchfighter

Haha, just about to post this one. I am much more looking forward to the Giro and Vuelta - races for climbing Champions.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8083/ ... -year.aspx

Bronzie

Maybe a bit of sour grapes, but he's not wrong really is he. Apart from last year's entertaining opening week, the TdF tends to be rather formulaic...........certainly in comparison with the recent Giro's and even last year's Vuelta.

andyp

Jean-Marie Leblanc had a tried and tested formula that he stuck with. Since his retirement Christian Prudhomme has started to shake it up a bit but he's restricted to what he can do with the course due to the geography of France, which is nowhere near as mountainous as either Italy or Spain.

RichN95.

The classics are at this stage in the season because, unlike the GTs, there's no-one skiing on the parcours at the moment.

Cumulonimbus

So what would he do to improve it? The thing that i like about the Giro is that they seem to have a few stages where there is a Cat 4 climb is a few kilometres before the finish, so you get the uncertainty as to which sprinters are going to make it over, does anyone fancy it enough to fully chase the break, will any of the main contenders try and make an attack? Then again the tour did have a stage like that last year (Vino's stage) and in 2009 (stage before Ventoux where Cav won). This year they are having some uphill finishes, as they have done in the past, indeed quite a few in the first week are uphill. Will make it interesting to see who fancies it, can any of the GC contenders gain a few seconds, or lose a few seconds. Some stages are up in the north-west where there is a greater chance of wind causing splits.

I suppose throwing a Cat 2 climb in early on, something like Mende, would help split things up a bit more.

The Giro was helped last year by the freak stage where 60 got away and all the favourites looked at each other to chase it down. The parcours of that stage helped the breakaway but it was still a bit freakish. I suppose for a comparison in the tour you could look to Pereiro's win.

I think part of the tour's problem is that Cav and to a lesser extent Farrar's teams keep the break in check on the flat stages to try and set their man up for the win. On the climbing stages it comes down to a Contador v Schleck battle. If it was like the Giro or Vuelta which seem more open then maybe people would like it more. Not sure how the world tour points work but maybe increasing the number of points for a mountain stage win and decreasing the number for coming 11th might help? Maybe also cut down the number of riders in a team?

Maybe what he is really saying is that unless they put the Milan San remo parcours in he is not going to win any?

rick_chasey

The problem with stage races is that there are an awful lot of riders who, on any one day, have absolutely no interest in racing - all they want to to do is get to the finish.

On a flat sprinters day, there might only be 30-40 riders who are actually getting stuck into the racing in one form or another.

Teams in the GC hunt may even attempt to shut the racing down so no racing occurs since it assits their cause - another day gone.

Sure, in the classics you get a bunch of Euskatel riders who are similarly only there to climb off at the feed zone, but by and large, everyone wants to race if they can - often they can't.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with stage races is that there are an awful lot of riders who, on any one day, have absolutely no interest in racing - all they want to to do is get to the finish.

On a flat sprinters day, there might only be 30-40 riders who are actually getting stuck into the racing in one form or another.

Teams in the GC hunt may even attempt to shut the racing down so no racing occurs since it assits their cause - another day gone.

Sure, in the classics you get a bunch of Euskatel riders who are similarly only there to climb off at the feed zone, but by and large, everyone wants to race if they can - often they can't.

Another problem is that those that we should see racing on the flater stages rarely are. By which I mean the sort of people we've seen over the last few weeks - Boonen, Ballan, Flecha, Nuyens, Hushovd, Haussler etc. These are the sort of people who should be going on the attack, not some anonymous Frenchmen. But they're rarely there. They should be chancing their arm three or four times per Tour. Bert Grabsch wouldn't be able to chase those sort of riders down single handly.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Another problem is that those that we should see racing on the flater stages rarely are. By which I mean the sort of people we've seen over the last few weeks - Boonen, Ballan, Flecha, Nuyens, Hushovd, Haussler etc. These are the sort of people who should be going on the attack, not some anonymous Frenchmen. But they're rarely there. Bert Grabsch wouldn't be able to chase those sort of riders down single handly.

The Belgian press have made similar noises about Boonen a few years ago or so, to which Boonen responded with something along the lines of:

"D'ya think anyone's gonna let me get in a break in the Tour?" :?

Cleat Eastwood

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with stage races is that there are an awful lot of riders who, on any one day, have absolutely no interest in racing - all they want to to do is get to the finish.

On a flat sprinters day, there might only be 30-40 riders who are actually getting stuck into the racing in one form or another.

Teams in the GC hunt may even attempt to shut the racing down so no racing occurs since it assits their cause - another day gone.

Sure, in the classics you get a bunch of Euskatel riders who are similarly only there to climb off at the feed zone, but by and large, everyone wants to race if they can - often they can't.

This is true also the one day races are affected by natural accidents much more which can affect the whole race in that it allows others to take advantage of someones misfortune. In stage races any effect of any accidents/ bad weather can be vitiated over the course of three weeks.

calvjones

The Tour could be improved significantly if they never went north of, say Orleans or Lyon. Unless it was to visit the cobbles.

Omar Little

Perversely part of the appeal of the TdF for me is to be found in some of the "boring" bits and you get to see some of the scenary and local geography as well as the racing... France really does look spectacular and every year without fail i end up fantasise about having a chalet in the mountains and going out to ride those roads every day!

It is a great televisual viewing experience even if there are other races which can be more exciting.

iainf72

I think if you put the Tour in Italy, it would be the same as it is now. It's success is a large chunk of the problem where people do weird stuff like caring about who's coming 7'th and you end up with a lot of defensive riding. And because it's so big it ends up being predictable as sponsors want to get their bang for their buck.

The Giro isn't always great, but it's had more hits lately (2005 / 2010, the rest were fairly meh)

Also, I think if you only saw the Tour during the year, you'd think it was great. That's how it was when I first got into cycling. You'd get 30 minutes of the Tour per day and sometimes a 15 second highlight of a classic or other GT on a sports round up program.

frenchfighter

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with stage races is that there are an awful lot of riders who, on any one day, have absolutely no interest in racing - all they want to to do is get to the finish.

On a flat sprinters day, there might only be 30-40 riders who are actually getting stuck into the racing in one form or another.

Teams in the GC hunt may even attempt to shut the racing down so no racing occurs since it assits their cause - another day gone.

Sure, in the classics you get a bunch of Euskatel riders who are similarly only there to climb off at the feed zone, but by and large, everyone wants to race if they can - often they can't.

A year of one day races would be very boring. Stage racing may be boring on occasion but they are drawn out entertainment with short bursts of intense action.

In any case, with a lot of one day races, is is not like they are flat out from the gun. A lot of the time is also spent just riding tempo until, say 50miles out or something where it may start to fracture and get lit up. This is a generalisaion obviously but has merit.

Stage races also demonstrate a more complete rider, one with a greater skillset and ability in a variety of aspects. The interchanging nature of the rankings and the drama that can unfold is great.

pottssteve

Omar Little wrote:

Perversely part of the appeal of the TdF for me is to be found in some of the "boring" bits and you get to see some of the scenary and local geography as well as the racing... France really does look spectacular and every year without fail i end up fantasise about having a chalet in the mountains and going out to ride those roads every day!

It is a great televisual viewing experience even if there are other races which can be more exciting.

Agreed, it is an excellent tourist advert, a bit like Last of the Summer Wine.

And you also get Paul Sherwin's encyclopedic knowledge of castles and vineyards...

rick_chasey

frenchfighter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The problem with stage races is that there are an awful lot of riders who, on any one day, have absolutely no interest in racing - all they want to to do is get to the finish.

On a flat sprinters day, there might only be 30-40 riders who are actually getting stuck into the racing in one form or another.

Teams in the GC hunt may even attempt to shut the racing down so no racing occurs since it assits their cause - another day gone.

Sure, in the classics you get a bunch of Euskatel riders who are similarly only there to climb off at the feed zone, but by and large, everyone wants to race if they can - often they can't.

A year of one day races would be very boring. Stage racing may be boring on occasion but they are drawn out entertainment with short bursts of intense action.

In any case, with a lot of one day races, is is not like they are flat out from the gun. A lot of the time is also spent just riding tempo until, say 50miles out or something where it may start to fracture and get lit up. This is a generalisaion obviously but has merit.

Stage races also demonstrate a more complete rider, one with a greater skillset and ability in a variety of aspects. The interchanging nature of the rankings and the drama that can unfold is great.

Agreed. Still think the racing is much much better (in general...) in classics.

The classics also have years to hone the same route to make it just right for racing too...

Le Commentateur

RichN95 wrote:

The classics are at this stage in the season because, unlike the GTs, there's no-one skiing on the parcours at the moment.

Mid-tour mountain stages in the Giro will have snow beside the road – e.g. http://www.sirotti.it/foto2/PIC1672WM.jpg – one reason the Dolomites and Alps are in the final week.

xcmad

Tour gets my vote every time. Its cinema.

Be great to see a 150m time trial, sort out the men from boys.

ridgerider

He also mentioned the issue of 'the break of the day' routine, which sort of sets a rather boring shape of racing for most days...

mooro

xcmad wrote:

Be great to see a 150m time trial, sort out the men from boys.

I always liked the idea of a downhill time trial for the bike handlers

RichN95.

Mooro wrote:

I always liked the idea of a downhill time trial for the bike handlers

The Giro had one in the late 80s. They used to be popular in the Italian amateur scene, but people kept going too fast and getting killed, so they stopped them.

mooro

RichN95 wrote:

Mooro wrote:

I always liked the idea of a downhill time trial for the bike handlers

The Giro had one in the late 80s. They used to be popular in the Italian amateur scene, but people kept going too fast and getting killed, so they stopped them.

and of course it would almost guarantee schleck the elder a definate DNF

Having done a couple of gran fondos in italy i can understand the problems as they absolutely flew downhill, sadly the natives were less keen pulling their weight on the flat!

Ron Stuart

Sour Grapes by Oscar but the TDF did get boring between 1999 and 2005 for some reason :roll:

inkyfingers

Ron Stuart wrote:

Sour Grapes by Oscar but the TDF did get boring between 1999 and 2005 for some reason :roll:

Apart from 2003, along with 2005 Giro that was the best GT in recent times.

Ron Stuart

inkyfingers wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

Sour Grapes by Oscar but the TDF did get boring between 1999 and 2005 for some reason :roll:

Apart from 2003, along with 2005 Giro that was the best GT in recent times.

Don't have a translate button on this one..... help needed :roll:

inkyfingers

Ron Stuart wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

Sour Grapes by Oscar but the TDF did get boring between 1999 and 2005 for some reason :roll:

Apart from 2003, along with 2005 Giro that was the best GT in recent times.

Don't have a translate button on this one..... help needed :roll:

I wrote that in a hurry. It's obvious what i meant so i'm not sure the sarcasm was strictly necessary.

Ron Stuart

inkyfingers wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

Sour Grapes by Oscar but the TDF did get boring between 1999 and 2005 for some reason :roll:

Apart from 2003, along with 2005 Giro that was the best GT in recent times.

Don't have a translate button on this one..... help needed :roll:

I wrote that in a hurry. It's obvious what i meant so i'm not sure the sarcasm was strictly necessary.

I still don't know what was "the best GT in recent times".

Sarcastic .... Yes.

I could have indeed just said I can't make any sense of your post, yes that is true.

You have replied and I still can't make any sense of it :!:

What's the difference :?:

afx237vi

It means the 2003 Tour, along with the 2005 Giro, were the best grand tours in recent times. It's not that hard to understand, surely?

Gingerflash

Downhill TT would be awesome. I've often thought how great this would be. I gather this year's Giro mountain TT, to Nevegal, begins with a descent.

"Another problem is that those that we should see racing on the flater stages rarely are"

We often see Voekler, Chavannel, Miller, in the breaks. Not the classics riders but the Baroudeurs. It's not always the unknown riders having a go.

The Tour isn't better or worse, just different. It's importance to everyone involved makes it more exciting in some ways, knowing that this is the pinnacle for all teams, that no-one's there for training, that they all desparately want a stage, or a GC placing.

Ron Stuart

afx237vi wrote:

It means the 2003 Tour, along with the 2005 Giro, were the best grand tours in recent times. It's not that hard to understand, surely?

.....zzzzzzzzz

rick_chasey

Gingerflash wrote:

Downhill TT would be awesome. I've often thought how great this would be. I gather this year's Giro mountain TT, to Nevegal, begins with a descent.

"Another problem is that those that we should see racing on the flater stages rarely are"

We often see Voekler, Chavannel, Miller, in the breaks. Not the classics riders but the Baroudeurs. It's not always the unknown riders having a go.

The Tour isn't better or worse, just different. It's importance to everyone involved makes it more exciting in some ways, knowing that this is the pinnacle for all teams, that no-one's there for training, that they all desparately want a stage, or a GC placing.

It's also so much tougher than other races so it leaves many more too tired to go racing.