ASL offences to be punished

The Rookie

A new bill has just had its third reading in the house of Lords, cash strapped London councils will soon be able to issue PCN's for ASL offences, as they are cash strapped you can bet there will now be some enforcement. Thought I'd mention it as I've not seen anything else about it on here.

Simon

iPete

Curious as to how it'll be enforced?

Got a fine for briefly stopping my car in Chiswick near the underground station a few years ago, was done by a camera operator, the cheeeek.

EKE_38BPM

Good news.

Any idea how will it be enforced? Police lurking at the lights?

bails87

The Big Society! Volunteer cyclists with headcams!

davmaggs

so no enforcement for years even though it is the right thing to do, but bring in a chance to inflict fines on people and suddenly it gets done. Just another means to drag cash out of people

The Rookie

As this is a PCN, it is decriminalised, so no Police, the council will issue postal PCN's to the registered keeper (who will be liable if they are the owner - same as parking and other decriminalised PCN's) for the offence, they will use CCTV, either static or in camera cars/vans. Similar already happens for many minro motoring offences in London such as ignoring no right turns/U-turns etc etc as well as parking.

Simon

cjcp

If it stops scooters from cutting into bike lanes from between queuing traffic, result.

cee

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

jzed

There are cameras on the VB ASL but they look straight onto the ASL - Scooters and Motorbikes don't have front plates so won't be identifiable for camera imposed fines.

rick_chasey

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Just make cycle boxes a non-stop zone - like ped crossings.

cjcp

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Not usually a problem - they tend to head straight through the lights

lost_in_thought

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

I guess it depends whether the cameras film constantly or take a slideshow if you see what I mean...

Good news, but a shame it's been necessary to take it out of the hands of the people who are meant to enforce the law in order to get it done.

snailracer

^^
That's legal. Same as being past a normal white stop line. Only entering the ASL after the light has turned red is illegal, AFAIK. Which scenario has occurred is easily proven with video evidence.

The Rookie

Rick Chasey wrote:

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Just make cycle boxes a non-stop zone - like ped crossings.

It will be on video, it will only be a contravention if they enter when the lights are red.

Simon

EKE_38BPM

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

You shouldn't enter an ASL if you can't cross it. That may not be the law, just what I think. When I'm driving, I treat ASLs the same way I treat yellow box junctions, that way I never stop in ASLs.

notsoblue

Whats a PCN?

This is a very good thing. ASL's mean very little to many drivers because they're never enforced.

Its going to be a bit of a windfall until word gets out though...

jzed

notsoblue wrote:

Whats a PCN?

This is a very good thing. ASL's mean very little to many drivers because they're never enforced.

Its going to be a bit of a windfall until word gets out though...

Penalty charge notice

The Rookie

Its not the law (TSRGD is the relevant statute), the 2 stop lines are treated the same, if the lights go amber the driver must stop unless its unsafe to do so, if they are red he must stop regardless, so its quite legal for a driver to be stranded in a box he enters while the lights are green or amber and subsequantly go red.

Simon

EDITed for semantics!

Origamist

@OP - have you got a source for this, as I thought the ASL enforcement clause had been dropped from the Bill.

jds_1981

Round where I live they often have smart cars with roof mounted cameras where they sit waiting for drivers to ignore the 'no right turn', etc signs. Appears to be quite a cushy job as there are often two people in there, both idling the time by.

CyclingBantam

davmaggs wrote:

so no enforcement for years even though it is the right thing to do, but bring in a chance to inflict fines on people and suddenly it gets done. Just another means to drag cash out of people

No. I take issue with this. It isn't being dragged out of anyone.


It is like Parking fines or speeding tickets and I am all for them**. They are like idiot taxes.

If people are unable to follow the rules of the road then they must take the consequences. Nobody is forced to drive and when you do drive you are accepting the rules of the road.

**I do accept there are a tiny percentage of these fines that are unreasonably applied but 98% are just idiot taxes.

CyclingBantam

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Surely this is a fine. You don't pull in to a junction until it is clear at the other side no?

bails87

CyclingBantam wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

so no enforcement for years even though it is the right thing to do, but bring in a chance to inflict fines on people and suddenly it gets done. Just another means to drag cash out of people

No. I take issue with this. It isn't being dragged out of anyone.


It is like Parking fines or speeding tickets and I am all for them**. They are like idiot taxes.

If people are unable to follow the rules of the road then they must take the consequences. Nobody is forced to drive and when you do drive you are accepting the rules of the road.

**I do accept there are a tiny percentage of these fines that are unreasonably applied but 98% are just idiot taxes.

+1 to that! I hate the "speeding fine = stealth tax" argument too, I've never been 'taxed' while driving, I can't think why.....:roll:

keyser__soze

Origamist wrote:

@OP - have you got a source for this, as I thought the ASL enforcement clause had been dropped from the Bill.

Indeed it has been dropped from the Bill. Some self-centered protectionist road-users group got it removed by petition, preventing the opportunity for more enforcement of ASLs and a resultant drop in numbers of vehicles occupying ASLs, which would be good thing for cyclists.

Now the name of the group campaigning against these clauses?

The London Cycling Campaign! WTF!

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... ion_03.pdf

So instead of asking for the bill to be amended they ask for the clauses to be dropped entirely. They're more concerned with maintaining a punishment of penalty points (which I believe has never ever actually taken place) for drivers than reducing the number of vehicles in the ASLs and hence making them more suitable for cyclists. Madness.

gaz545

Origamist wrote:

@OP - have you got a source for this, as I thought the ASL enforcement clause had been dropped from the Bill.

Indeed, source please

The Rookie

I got the info from another forum and ran some basic checks, didn't pick up anything about it being withdrawn.....will confirm.......

Simon

gaz545

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Origamist wrote:

@OP - have you got a source for this, as I thought the ASL enforcement clause had been dropped from the Bill.

Indeed it has been dropped from the Bill. Some self-centered protectionist road-users group got it removed by petition, preventing the opportunity for more enforcement of ASLs and a resultant drop in numbers of vehicles occupying ASLs, which would be good thing for cyclists.

Now the name of the group campaigning against these clauses?

The London Cycling Campaign! WTF!

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... ion_03.pdf

So instead of asking for the bill to be amended they ask for the clauses to be dropped entirely. They're more concerned with maintaining a punishment of penalty points (which I believe has never ever actually taken place) for drivers than reducing the number of vehicles in the ASLs and hence making them more suitable for cyclists. Madness.

They didn't just oppose the fining of drivers who don't stop at the first stop line.

I am very much pleased they opposed the fixed penalities for cyclists on the pavement. Whilst cycling on the pavement is against the law and often not wise. It is very rarely done in a manor which endangers pedestrians. And having council workers giving fines out to kids (lets be hoenst that will probably happen) isn't what we need.

The Rookie

CyclingBantam wrote:

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Surely this is a fine. You don't pull in to a junction until it is clear at the other side no?

The law says otherwise.

Simon

keyser__soze

gaz545, one doesn't have to 'trade-off' a positive clause against a negative one: "We'll trade you letting us cycle on pavements for letting you drive into ASLs". LCC should be petitioning for amendments to the clauses of the Bill relating to the ASLs, not the complete removal of them.

snailracer

CyclingBantam wrote:

cee wrote:

will be interesting how they deal with the 'stranded in the asl when the lights change' scenario....

Surely this is a fine. You don't pull in to a junction until it is clear at the other side no?

I think the yellow-box-junction prohibition does not generally apply because some roads have lots of junctions on them, e.g. every 20 metres.

However, IMO major busy junctions should be yellow-boxed more often than they presently are.

The Rookie

Many junctions cannot be yellow boxed as it slows down traffic flow, imagine the scenario where every car waits to be sure that the car in front will clear the junction (they can't see past it) you just halved the number of cars across a junction and created a major amount of congestion. Yellow boxes are useful for preventing Gridlock (the real gridlock as seen in gridded cities in the US, not what we call gridlocked which often isn't!)

The ASL isn't a yellow box so entering when your exit is not clear is permitted.

I suggest a few road users on here should be reading the highway code!

Simon