Tomlinson/G20 death inquest
bails87
Posts: 12,998
Anyone been following this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/ ... ve-updates
We've had the 'establishing the events' phase, and it's now switching to the "making the officer look like a bast*rd" phase. He (Harwood) seems to be being given a pretty tough time by the sounds of it:
:? Not sure how he can claim that!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/ ... ve-updates
We've had the 'establishing the events' phase, and it's now switching to the "making the officer look like a bast*rd" phase. He (Harwood) seems to be being given a pretty tough time by the sounds of it:
Harwood's evidence is that he then could not get to his carrier because the crowd became too dense. He then spotted a male protester daubing graffiti on a van.
The jury has been shown footage of the carrier Harwood said it had been too difficult to get to. Ryder points out that it was surrounded by other police officers.
It has been pointed out that it was not too crowded for him to try to arrest the suspect, but "too dense" to travel just over two metres further to get to his van.
The jury is also shown footage of the crowd at the time Harwood said they had been
throwing missiles. There were no missiles being thrown in the footage.
Ryder: I am going to give you the opportunity now to really help us, if you would. We have all seen the video. We have all seen that, at the time you pushed Mr Tomlinson, he had his back to you. Do you agree with that?
Harwood: No, I don't agree with that
:? Not sure how he can claim that!
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Not following it but I'll guarantee that the comments section will be full of hysterical arseholes moaning about the fact the police turn up and stop them smashing up stuff. It's a horrible situation but people need to ask why the police had to be there in the first place.Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0
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Montevideoguy wrote:Not following it but I'll guarantee that the comments section will be full of hysterical arseholes moaning about the fact the police turn up and stop them smashing up stuff. It's a horrible situation but people need to ask why the police had to be there in the first place.
Its an inquiry into the death of an innocent civilian at the hands of a public servant who has, with his colleagues, sort to deny justice to the victims family. The only questiion to be asked is why isnt Harwood behind bars, imo.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
I believe that was done to death here already
The point of the inquest is to focus on Tomlinson's death and the actions of the PC who pushed him.
Luckily there's no comments section!
I certainly wouldn't claim that the police shouldn't intervene, but I don't think they should do what the PC in question did. And I 'm sure anyone who's seen the video will agree that Tomlinson did have his back to the PC when he was pushed. Somehow the PC has the balls to disagree with that.0 -
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Raymondavalon wrote:/care = nil
Ah, good to see the milk of human kindness is in as plenitful supply as ever raymond 0 -
Cleat Eastwood wrote:Montevideoguy wrote:Not following it but I'll guarantee that the comments section will be full of hysterical arseholes moaning about the fact the police turn up and stop them smashing up stuff. It's a horrible situation but people need to ask why the police had to be there in the first place.
Its an inquiry into the death of an innocent civilian at the hands of a public servant who has, with his colleagues, sort to deny justice to the victims family. The only questiion to be asked is why isnt Harwood behind bars, imo.
I'm not saying the policeman should get done as the footage is clear that the guy wasn't a threat to anyone. I'm just saying you have a lot of arseholes who are using this as a distraction from the real issue (people meeting up and trashing stuff)Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
doesn't change my veiw of the majority of the police force, that they are bullies who found a job with too much responability for them.
and it's not because someone died i think that, but there conduct sinse. Accidents happen and confusion in these situations, people can understand that, the rest...0 -
Thewaylander wrote:doesn't change my veiw of the majority of the police force, that they are bullies who found a job with too much responability for them.
and it's not because someone died i think that, but there conduct sinse. Accidents happen and confusion in these situations, people can understand that, the rest...
Fair enough. It's all about having your own opinion. My own thoughts are there are a few bad apples in the police force but the majority are trying to do the best they can while being faced with a ton of crap.Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
Yarp,
See from personal experience, i'm the opposite side to you, I think there are a few good guys trying to a decent job with a bunch of numpty rude sods arround them
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Proceedings have finished for today – but not before another significant development.
Questioned by the assistant deputy coroner, Judge Peter Thornton QC, Harwood has accepted that the account of events he put in his notebook two weeks after the protests was incorrect.
These relate to Harwood's explanation of the aftermath of his attempt to arrest a protester for daubing graffiti, when he said he came under attack from hundreds of protesters and was in fear for his life. Video cast doubt over that, and Thornton specifically went through the list.
Harwood: At the time I wrote this, I thought I fell to the floor.
Thornton: Do you now accept that this is not correct?
Harwood: Yes
4.31pm: A series of still pictures are also being shown to the jury. They show the same aftermath of Harwood's attempt to arrest the protester, less than 10 minutes before striking Tomlinson and around the time he claimed to be in fear for his life.
The images show Harwood standing around with lots of other officers, including his colleague PC Hayes, who was able to return to his van.
Another alleged discrepancy in Harwood's evidence. He said that, when arresting the suspect, the suspect "ran into the door". The footage shows Harwood ahead of the suspect, apparently dragging him
Ryder: You're ahead of him? But he has run into the door has he?
Harwood: ... I don't know, you'll have to ask him.
Ryder: From the video, can you see him running into the door?
Harwood: He has gone and hit the door, collided with the door, yes.
Ryder: Do you understand the word 'run', PC Harwood?
The exchange goes on in this fashion for several minutes, with Harwood seemingly reluctant to accept that the protester did not actually run into the door.
They do a difficult job.....high pressure.....dangerous situation and all that.
But it just sounds like lies, lies lies.0 -
There are human rights violations happening everywhere in the world, everyday. It's not unusual. if I started caring about every single small thing, i'd go crazy. Genocide, or mass rape, yeah talk to me about that. As far as small things like this, they happen so much to care anymore.0
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i heard he did it on purpose.
the "protester" was vandalizing stuff, just like the rest of them. So the copper decided to teach them all a lesson by killing one of them.0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:i heard he did it on purpose.
the "protester" was vandalizing stuff, just like the rest of them. So the copper decided to teach them all a lesson by killing one of them.
He should have got some lessons from you first on getting away with it.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
you know the countrys in the sh*t when our own police force cant admit to causing the death of an innocent person, despite clear video footage and around 15 other police witnesses.0
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bails87 wrote:They do a difficult job.....high pressure.....dangerous situation and all that.
But it just sounds like lies, lies lies.
mmm very difficult to judge what happened from crossexamination
Barristers get paid a lot of money to walk the grey areas of the truth, they are masters of manipulation as well as the law which is why they are paid so well
the passage you quote could be word play, if the officers grammar and vocabularly are lacking a QC can have a field day
the fact is that the protester hit the door
officers description of events "he ran into the door"
QC's take on the event what he "ran" into the door how is this possible, swoon to the gallery you must be a liar sir, damn your eyes0 -
bennett_346 wrote:you know the countrys in the sh*t when our own police force cant admit to causing the death of an innocent person, despite clear video footage and around 15 other police witnesses.
I appreciate the fuzz do a difficult job, and have to deal with a lot of crap.. but that guy is just a violent thug who should be behind bars...
It is not surprising that the rest of the coppers have selective amnesia when it comes to trying to remember what happened... and the tame Coroner who botched the Autopsy just tops it off really..
The police really do seam to be above the law in these situations...0 -
It's the police, they stop people doing wrong things. They never do anything wrong themselves. Yeahhhhh right.0
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It's the police, they stop people doing wrong things. They never do anything wrong themselves. Yeahhhhh right.0
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I look at it this way... Harwood claims he thought he did the right thing, but also, he's told lies about it. If he thought he was in the right, why lie? Actions of a guilty man that. If he'd come straight out and say "I was in over my head, and I ****ed up" that'd be something else entirely.Uncompromising extremist0
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thing is though, he did do the right thing.
its not his fault the bloke died. these things just happen0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:thing is though, he did do the right thing.
its not his fault the bloke died. these things just happen
+1 to this0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:thing is though, he did do the right thing.
its not his fault the bloke died. these things just happen
Sense in the crud and it's coming from sheep
Blow me
Please0 -
except he's trolling Northwind and the numptybollocks don't get it. 0
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true, but only because i know he appreciates it.blister pus wrote:except he's trolling Northwind0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:thing is though, he did do the right thing.
What, whack a guy who was walking away from police lines with his hands in his pockets, who he's admitted was no threat to him or anyone else? He can't seriously feed us the "Oh it was all terrifying, I was under pressure" because he'd chosen to stay on the line when he was supposed to have moved back to the van (and told 2 absolute howlers about why he did that).
And not his fault he died? He pushed him to the ground for no real reason, and he died as a result of the fall. (the 2 reliable post mortems both state this) So damn right it's his fault. What else is that?
I shall respond to trolling with a righteous response in order that Sheepsteeth can display his gift. No, not that gift, the other one. Put it away.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Maybe we need a mirror thread in ze Hub ;-)
Fault and intention are the two points in question here I feel. I think there is no way the PC intended Tomlinson to die. A chain of events resulted in his death. This brings a further question of can you be held responsible for the end result of a chain of events? For example, say you fell off your bike in the road due braking too hard for a corner. You fall off, and car swerves to avoid. The car strikes a ped (or a nuclear missile silo ala Naked Gun!).
Difficult to judge I feel. Also look at Gary Hart.0 -
It's incredibly difficult to judge but Tomlinson was adopting a classic submissive defiance, police gave him a baton strike to the leg and a shove, like it or not it's standard practice in that situation.
Was it the coppers intention to kill him or was it a tragic accident.0 -
I think the key point here though is he lied.
For this alone he should lose his job, If had said it was confusing situation, I thought there was a threat but I may have been mistaken, Then i would have said stressfull job and so on doing the best you can in a bad situation.
But as the police you can not lie about these situations, and if you are caught lieing about these things imediate response should be removal from the force. As to the can we charge him for worse i'm not to sure on myself. I'm a bit impartial as mostly as i said before i think police are bullies.0 -
Northwind wrote:sheepsteeth wrote:thing is though, he did do the right thing.
What, whack a guy who was walking away from police lines with his hands in his pockets, who he's admitted was no threat to him or anyone else? He can't seriously feed us the "Oh it was all terrifying, I was under pressure" because he'd chosen to stay on the line when he was supposed to have moved back to the van (and told 2 absolute howlers about why he did that).
And not his fault he died? He pushed him to the ground for no real reason, and he died as a result of the fall. (the 2 reliable post mortems both state this) So damn right it's his fault. What else is that?
I shall respond to trolling with a righteous response in order that Sheepsteeth can display his gift. No, not that gift, the other one. Put it away.
im sure that last para graph wasnt present when i first read this reply, did i manage to troll the troll spotter?
it was especially for you man.0
