Avid Elixir Owners

kona_matt

Wonder if anyone can help, I've got some Avid Elixir 5 brakes on my on-one and have been having some problems with loss of power. Purchased in August lasy year they were bled by my LBS in September when they trimmed the hoses for me.

The bike hasn't had particularly heavy uses since then (one weekend in wales and about 1 local ride per month) but when I rode it last week the brake levers were touching the bars when applied and there was a significant drop in power (none on the front until i pumped it a few times). This improved as the ride went on but I assume I managed to shift an air bubble while riding and they need bleeding again.

Had problems again yesterday at Cwm Carn. Rear brake has completely gone now. Thankfully the front brake held all day!

Oh, and pads are fresh, changed them before the cwm carn ride.

Bleed kit it ordered now and I'll do it myself this time. Just wondered if anyone else has had this problem? I was surprised at how often these brakes will potentially need bleeding!

nicklouse

lack of use could have cause the pistons to retract. fixed by use.

re the rear what do you mean by gone?

have you tried any of the adjusters?
have you had a look at what is/is not moving?

if there are no leaks then a bleed will not fix it unless the original bleed was poor or you have some how inadvertently let air into the system.

kona_matt

I did 2 laps at cwm carn yesterday, rear brake was rubbing on one side on first lap so I took the wheel off, pushed the pistons back, and realigned capiler. when I then applied the brake the pads did touch the rotor but not with enough power to actually stop the wheel when riding. I thought it would improve as i rode but it didn't.

I had the same problem with the front brake last week which did correct with use. still feels quite spongey in comparison with a mate's elixers. I think possibly a poor bleed by LBS.

If there are no signs of brake fluid leak, what are the possible ways air have could have entered the system?

cee

my suspicion is that the bike shop did not degas the fluid (either at all, or enough) before pushing it into the system.

brake fluid loves air. You will be surprised how much air is absorbed by the fluid (like coca cola absorbs co2..)..

avid brakes seem to be particularly sensitive to the air contained in the fluid.

re-bleed, and ensure a good degassing...follow the avid instructions (avid are the only manufacturer I have seen, whose bleeding instructions tell you to degas....that says something in itself.)

you will not be able to remove all of the air from the fluid...but you will be surprised at how much air is in fluid that you cannot see until you pull it in a vacuum.

follow the avid instructions....i was a bit more aynal about the degassing than the video suggested, but since then, I have had no issues.

hope this helps.

kona_matt

cee - thanks very much. I've watched the avid videos on youtube and was also surprised at how much air comes out of the fluid. Will give the LBS a grilling next time i'm in there.

bleed kit is in the post and hopefully waiting for me on the door mat when i get home. went for one from Red Dog Racing over the ridiculously priced Avid one. Paid £18 for mine including P&P and some 5.1 DOT fluid.

ride_whenever

More likely they got air stuck in the system, the elixirs are notorious for it as there is a point in one of the adjusters where it is ludicrously easy to get air stuck.

Also check under the rubber boots at the lever that everything is still tight. One of mine managed to unwind themselves meaning no brake at all although when screwed back in everything was hunky dorey.

kona_matt

ride_whenever wrote:

More likely they got air stuck in the system, the elixirs are notorious for it as there is a point in one of the adjusters where it is ludicrously easy to get air stuck.

Also check under the rubber boots at the lever that everything is still tight. One of mine managed to unwind themselves meaning no brake at all although when screwed back in everything was hunky dorey.

thanks for the tip, i'll also check that. it's strange that i'm having problems with both brakes though. if it was something coming loose you wouldn't expect it to happen in both front and rear at the same time. would you?

bamish1000

Had the same brakes for a year now and have never been impressed by them. Read the following, even Avid admits they're not up to scratch. :roll:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/2 ... ok--29474/

J@mesC

If you push the pistons back too quickly it seems to pull air into the system somehow. Or it does on my Elixir 5 (front) anyway! So if you've changed the pads and pushed the pistons back too quickly then you're probably pulled some air into the system somewhere and a bleed will sort it.

Elixirs are excellent brakes but are dependent on a very good bleed to work at their best.

Uchiga

I've never heard good things about Avid brakes! They're a pain in the arse to bleed, they seem to break and leak air into the system, the pads are a little awkward to replace, the list seems like nothing but trouble!

kevolution

It's more likely the LBS cut the hoses and didn't bleed the brakes afterwards.
If they did, then you have to question whether they're fit to look after a bike you'll be trusting your safety to on fast descents.
Brake fluid absorbs moisture rather than air, as it's hygroscopic.
De gassing fliud is essential if you want longevity out of your brake system, as was mentioned previously.
As for pulling air into the system, if air can get in, fluid can get out. if you don't have a leak, the air must have been in the system all the time. Then they need to be bled by a competent mechanic.

*edit* typo.

kona_matt

Uchiga wrote:

I've never heard good things about Avid brakes! They're a pain in the ars* to bleed, they seem to break and leak air into the system, the pads are a little awkward to replace, the list seems like nothing but trouble!

can't agreed on the brake pads on the elixir 5, very easy to replace.

kona_matt

kevolution wrote:

It's more likely the LBS cut the hoses and didn't bleed the brakes afterwards.
If they did, then you have to question whether they're fit to look after a bike you'll be trusting your safety to on fast descents.
Brake fluid absorbs moisture rather than air, as it's hygroscopic.
De gassing fliud is essential if you want longevity out of your brake system, as was mentioned previously.
As for pulling air into the system, if air can get in, fluid can get out. if you don't have a leak, the air must have been in the system all the time. Then they need to be bled by a competent mechanic.

*edit* typo.

hhhmmmm, I did trust them and i though they were competent. maybe not anymore. the longer i own bikes the more i believe self maintenance is the way forward.

Bleed kit arrived yesterday and i'll be doing it my self over the weekend (with the help of the Avid videos on youtube)

Obs1dian

A good bleed - as people have already said - is essential so I would recommend a re-bleed.

I had a similar problem to you. I run Avid Elixir 5s, my mates have Elixir Rs and CR mags etc. When I got the Elixir 5s they felt spongey compared with my mate's brakes. I e-mailed the place I ordered them from and was told that Elixir 5s are generally more spongey than other brakes...

I tried bleeding them with a Quad bleed kit for Avid brakes and had a nightmare. They didn't seal properly and fluid went everywhere. I couldn't get a good bleed at all so sent it back. Then ordered the full Avid bleed kit and it worked very well, no leaks. However I got the loss of power you described. I then went back and did a VERY careful bleed, making sure to fully degass the fluid, get out all traces of air bubbles and now the brakes work very well. They are still a little spongey but the (what I think is) modulation is very good. The braking is gradual and powerful when I need it. This is in contrast to my mate's Avid brakes which you only have to tap to get full power.

kona_matt

Obs1dian wrote:

A good bleed - as people have already said - is essential so I would recommend a re-bleed.

I had a similar problem to you. I run Avid Elixir 5s, my mates have Elixir Rs and CR mags etc. When I got the Elixir 5s they felt spongey compared with my mate's brakes. I e-mailed the place I ordered them from and was told that Elixir 5s are generally more spongey than other brakes...

I tried bleeding them with a Quad bleed kit for Avid brakes and had a nightmare. They didn't seal properly and fluid went everywhere. I couldn't get a good bleed at all so sent it back. Then ordered the full Avid bleed kit and it worked very well, no leaks. However I got the loss of power you described. I then went back and did a VERY careful bleed, making sure to fully degass the fluid, get out all traces of air bubbles and now the brakes work very well. They are still a little spongey but the (what I think is) modulation is very good. The braking is gradual and powerful when I need it. This is in contrast to my mate's Avid brakes which you only have to tap to get full power.

thanks for that, i'll see how it goes with the red dog racing kit. i've had a quick look at the syringes and the seals seem good. no air gets in when i clamp the hose and create a vaccum.

my mate also has elixir 5 and they're pretty sharp but they haven't been touched since he bough the bike (whyte 901).

the slight spongeyness (or modulation) is what i like about the elixir 5, it's why i bought them. the hayes i've got on my kona are wooden feeling and either on or off which is ok, they stop me pretty promptly, but aren't exactly subtle.

dan shard

The Elixer 5's on my last bike were great, never had a single probem with them and were always predictable and reliable, never bled them and never needed to. I actually prefered them to the XT's on my current bike

Oberdiah

I've read a lot on here about people having issues with Avid brakes in general. I may be the only one but I have never had a problem with mine (Elixir 5) even after bleeding. They are always responsive and consistent. The comment about the pads being difficult to replace is hard to believe, couldn't be easier imo...
Big up the Avids...

cee

Oberdiah wrote:

I've read a lot on here about people having issues with Avid brakes in general. I may be the only one but I have never had a problem with mine (Elixir 5) even after bleeding. They are always responsive and consistent. The comment about the pads being difficult to replace is hard to believe, couldn't be easier imo...
Big up the Avids...

me too.

got elixirs and codes and love them both.

tried hayes (didn't mind them...a bit wooden)
various hopes (again all good brakes)...

Wouldn't mind what I was using...so long as it works.

a bad bleed ruins all brakes...some might be more tolerant than others....but a bad bleed is bad bleed.

Only sligt gripe with avids is the pad retaining pins are made of cheese...these don't want to be FNG Tight.

Uchiga

Well me and my bro spent a good 5 mins trying to replace a set of Pads on a set of avid juicy 3's and after all the effort we ended up braking one of the pistons as well. The little square bit that clips onto the pad that is.

Shimano brakes on the other... Simple take off the split pin. Pads fall out/ pulled lightly. Reverse process job done.

Barteos

Get BB7s. Your problems will end.

Uchiga

Barteos wrote:

Get BB7s. Your problems will end.

But then your braking power will decrease as cables can stretch, not to mention as the pads wear you will need to constantly realign and re adjust the brakes much in the same way as V-brakes...

Invest in some Formula R1 or Avid XX or Shimano XTR brakes instead

kona_matt

Uchiga wrote:

Well me and my bro spent a good 5 mins trying to replace a set of Pads on a set of avid juicy 3's and after all the effort we ended up braking one of the pistons as well. The little square bit that clips onto the pad that is.

Shimano brakes on the other... Simple take off the split pin. Pads fall out/ pulled lightly. Reverse process job done.

elixir are much easier than juicy.

Barteos

Uchiga wrote:

Barteos wrote:

Get BB7s. Your problems will end.

But then your braking power will decrease as cables can stretch, not to mention as the pads wear you will need to constantly realign and re adjust the brakes much in the same way as V-brakes...

Invest in some Formula R1 or Avid XX or Shimano XTR brakes instead

With the right set of levers and cables and when adjusted PROPERLY, BB7s will offer you power and modulation of hydros but no messy fluid, random rotor rub, leaks etc.

Good set of cables (e.g. Jagwire Ripcord) will last you for many months and replacing them takes only a few minutes.

You DON'T need to "constantly" adjust them.
All it takes is a single adjuster click on each side (hardly adjustment), every few weeks or whenever you feel that the lever travels too far. It takes 2 seconds (less than pumping up the tyres).
The dials also allow you to adjust the pads spacing when it's muddy, when the rotor is bent or when you're putting the wheel back into the frame.