Help with Rims: ZTR Flow, Mavic XM819 or something else?

myopic

I'm looking to get new wheels for trail riding that will handle modest jumps and drops. More leaning towards something quite tough and strong rather than XC light, but no need for downhill strength. I'm around 83kg (about 13 stone in old money).

Currently riding on XM719s which are ideal - maybe a bit tougher than I need but rather be that way than not tough enough

Budget wise, the XM819 and ZTR Flows fit the bill, but Flows seem a lot more popular. Am I right in thinking the Flows would need rim strips and sealant to take UST or tubeless, but the XM819s would handle tubeless or UST without rim strips (but with sealant for UST tyres)? If so, what is the attraction with the Flows?

Interested in opinions and experiences, and/or other recommendations. Cheers!

CraigXXL

I had XM719's on XT hubs as OEM on my GT Force and changed these to Hope Hoops on Flows. The Flows are a much better rim and the extra width provides a choice of wider tyres.
To make them tubeless just add valve, yellow tape and sealant.

Northwind

Flows absolutely ace the 819s, there's no competition really. Other than price IIRC.

I've got both, here's the pros and cons...

Flows: Lighter, stronger, wider (so better tyre profiles). Easier to build a wheel out of, if that matters to you (on weight, worth mentioning that the Mavic claimed weight is totally crooked and doesn't include the ferrules- which is a bit like measuring the weight of a full wheel build without the spokes.

819s- eyeletted so possibly will last longer in lower stressed use. "proper" UST so no tape needed.

Now that last one is the tricky one, people make a big deal of it but the fact is, it's nothing. Once you tape up a Flow, it works exactly like an 819, functionally they're identical. Unless you manage to damage the tape, which does happen sometimes in which case, just retape it, easy.

People assume that the 819 and Flow are competitors because of the fairly similiar weight but actually they're not, there's no Mavic equivalent to the Flow- the 819 falls somewhere between the Crest and Arch.

My 819s were cheap luckily otherwise I'd be a bit annoyed at them They used to be great but it's an outdated, outclassed design now. I don't think Mavic are that interested in tubeless really.

myopic

Cheers for that Northwind. I was naively assuming weights quoted were accurate - I should know better :oops: , and probably overrating the value of not needing tape. (No danger of me trying to build myself btw). Price for custom build on at least one webiste is the same, but to echo your last point, I thought it was odd that Mavic don't seem to push the tubeless aspect at all.

So to take up your point and the one made by Craig, the wider rim won't necessarily make the tyre wider at its widest point, just a better cross section? I guess closer to a C on its side shape than a Ʊ if that makes sense? Can't think how to phrase this properly!

njee20

I don't think Mavic are that interested in mountain biking really

Agreed :-)

I'd echo what Northwind said, Stan's all the way.

myopic

OK, so Stan's looking good.

For my weight (83kg, 13 stonish) do you think Flows are overkill? I wouldn't be doing drops bigger than eg the last one at Caddon Bank, Innerleithen (at least not intentionally) just now wondering if I could get away with Crests - but I'm not always the smoothest rider. Arch seem another option, but IIRC there was a thread about these being a bit past it for some reason?

Northwind

Overkill maybe, but the thing is they're still not a bad weight so it's not like you're fitting mad downhill wheels. Arch is uncool more than anything else, I've never used one myself but it seems like people who want a tough rim go to Flows and people who don't go to the Crest and now the Arch is a bit left out.

myopic

Thanks for that, Northwind!

One other thing - I remember a thread a couple of weeks ago about some ZTR rims that had been built up too tight and peeled apart, and I think someone said there had been a similar but less extreme problem with other similar wheels from the same builder. Can't remember the name of the thread and can't find it. Can anyone point me in the direction of it? As well as wanting to check what the rim was, I want to check the builder! I know that for a few failures there will be lots of problem free ones that no-one writes about, just want to know what to look for if I go down this route

davildo

Reading this thread with interest as I am in the process of deciding on some new wheels.
I was looking at 719s on Hope up front and XT at the back (the clicking just doesn't do it for me).
Are you moving away from 719s to go tubeless? I guess if that is the case, you can't go tubeless with 719s. Excuse my ignorance but this is my first wheel upgrade.
I'd be interested in giving it a whirl without tubes at some point and don't want to get 719s if that is the case. This would then leave me with your predicament, as it sounds as though we want similar wheels for similar riding.
Looks like I am now leaning towards Flows too.
Apologies for hijacking your thread by the way!

Northwind

You can go tubeless with standard rims, but it's something you only do if you've already got the wheels- buying standard rims to go tubeless would be mad.

davildo

OK, cheers.
I wasn't really thinking of going tubeless straightaway but didn't want to rule it out completely in the future.
So can you pretty much go tubeless on any rim?
I guess you can also run tubes on rims such as Flows and 819s?
Apart from being able to go tubeless, what is the difference between a 719 & 819?
I just assumed that was why myopic wanted to change rims.
Sorry for the barrage of questions!!
Thanks again.

Northwind

Not so sure when you get right down to that, the 819's heavier but lots of people say it's stronger, that's just hearsay though. Mine are a bit soft, they ding easily but they don't seem weak (that said they get much less abuse than my Flows- the 819s are on my rigid XC bike, the Flows get to go down world cup dh routes and suchlike, yet the 819s have needed more care and show more scars)

With mavic, you only go with a tubeless rim if you want tubeless, due to the downsides of weight and cost. Whereas with Stans, well, a Flow would still be a great rim if it wasn't tubeless ready, so you wouldn't say "I'm not getting Stans because I don't need tubeless", which you probably would with an 819.

myopic

Davildo, not moving away from 719s, I need a new set of wheels but will still be using the 719s on another bike. As Northwind said they could be converted to tubeless but I'm happy with them as they are. I want to have an immediate tubeless option on the new wheels.

Anybody remember the recent thread about the splitting ZTR rims due to overtight build? I just want to check a few details

myopic

Found it. For anyone who was following: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12756866
Looks like a very atypical one-off with a happy ending

dan1502

I can't really help much from experience but I went for Arch as I wanted light weight (especially as they're 29er wheels) with added strength over the Crest as I am about 15st and ride pretty gnarly terrrain at times and being fairly new to things and attempting more in terms of drop offs etc my technique isn't always super smooth.

I'm really happy with my choice. Also, I believe a lot of the strength is down to the build. Goldtec built mine using brass nipples and there excellent hubs.