Epic FAIL or crafty bodge

itboffin

Normally I take a great deal of care when it comes to bike building and maintenance HOWEVER recently I've rebuild my old commuter FGSS into a classic old skool racer again, just in time for the tweed run.

it had an el crapO tange 1" headset which frankly looked like it came from Frankenstein's monsters neck, being a tart I shelled out on a new 1" campag record headset - sweet delicious thing of beauty that it is, all good so far out with the old cups and bearings and in with the new, quill stem set-up but waiting what's this the final nut (see pic) doesn't fit - arrrhhhh stack height is too big for my forks



So the question is do I ride the bike with this bodge or replace the recently resprayed forks for longer ones that wont match the colour or style?

daviesee

Ah!

That'll be why my LBS kept a bit on with spacers when I got the steerer cut - just in case of differing headset heights, or a change in preference in riding position.

Too late for you unfortunately but there is a lesson for others to be learned here.

rjsterry

So the steerer is too short - i.e. not enough thread sticking out at the top to properly engage the locknut?

Well, the locknut shouldn't be taking the load - it's just to stop the top race loosening off - so that would suggest you could make do, but you are always going to have to keep checking that it's not worked loose, and you won't be able to tighten the locknut much as that'll just strip the thread.

If the steerer is too short to engage the locknut at all then your just hoping that the top race won't work loose, which it will, closely followed by hitting a bump and trashing your £60 nearly new headset.

Has sir considered alternative 1" headsets? Perhaps Stronglight or dare I say it Dura Ace? Or a rummage on ebay for something suitably retro.

Makes mental note to check stack height before buying headset for Mercian.

UndercoverElephant

Have you made sure that the fork race is properly seated at the very base of the steerer, and that you've pressed the cups into the frame sufficiently with no gaps? If you can fettle the install, you may just manage to get enough thread for the locknut to grip.

wgwarburton

itboffin wrote:

Normally I take a great deal of care when it comes to bike building and maintenance HOWEVER recently I've rebuild my old commuter FGSS into a classic old skool racer again, just in time for the tweed run.

it had an el crapO tange 1" headset which frankly looked like it came from Frankenstein's monsters neck, being a tart I shelled out on a new 1" campag record headset - sweet delicious thing of beauty that it is, all good so far out with the old cups and bearings and in with the new, quill stem set-up but waiting what's this the final nut (see pic) doesn't fit - arrrhhhh stack height is too big for my forks



So the question is do I ride the bike with this bodge or replace the recently resprayed forks for longer ones that wont match the colour or style?

A friend of mine had exactly this problem when he rebuilt his "Sportif" bike. He still has the jewel of a headset in his house (I suspect it is in a small display case on the mantlepiece...). His lovely Italian steel framed bike has an alternative headset.. Not that anyone ever notices.
Sadly I fear this is the route you must follow. It would be wrong to change the forks, and wrong to ride the bodge. An alternative headset must be sought and the Record must be preserved for another project.
Unless you wear out or crash-damage the forks, of course, but doing this deliberately would be vandalism... Your soul would be blackened.

Cheers,
W.

rolf_f

Dead easy - get Spa cycles to supply one of these to fit (or whatever they have which will fit) : http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/strongli ... 55188.html

Then build an n+1 around the Record headset

itboffin

rjsterry wrote:

So the steerer is too short - i.e. not enough thread sticking out at the top to properly engage the locknut?

Well, the locknut shouldn't be taking the load - it's just to stop the top race loosening off - so that would suggest you could make do, but you are always going to have to keep checking that it's not worked loose, and you won't be able to tighten the locknut much as that'll just strip the thread.

If the steerer is too short to engage the locknut at all then your just hoping that the top race won't work loose, which it will, closely followed by hitting a bump and trashing your £60 nearly new headset.

Has sir considered alternative 1" headsets? Perhaps Stronglight or dare I say it Dura Ace? Or a rummage on ebay for something suitably retro.

Makes mental note to check stack height before buying headset for Mercian.

You are correct the steerer is too short however it wasn't that long with the old headsets, as it's a quill stem i've tighten it so there's little chance of the bars coming loose.

but there's more .....

this all might not have been a problem had I managed to properly seat the crown race washer :oops: alas even amongst my awesome array of tools I do not have a bench vice so smashing the campag washer into place didn't go as planned.

Bodge = FAIL

Worse case I fall off on route or during the tweed run, this could happen anyway. That or I scrap the retro plans and go all modern carbon forks and seat post etc.

itboffin

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Have you made sure that the fork race is properly seated at the very base of the steerer, and that you've pressed the cups into the frame sufficiently with no gaps? If you can fettle the install, you may just manage to get enough thread for the locknut to grip.

Bingo! that totally what I haven't done

UndercoverElephant

itboffin wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Have you made sure that the fork race is properly seated at the very base of the steerer, and that you've pressed the cups into the frame sufficiently with no gaps? If you can fettle the install, you may just manage to get enough thread for the locknut to grip.

Bingo! that totally what I haven't done

Winks and salutes to the assembled hordes of fettle-fans.

As an aside, I have the threadless version of the Record headset on the new Genesis. It really is an absolute joy in use, the only pain is that I wobble a lot more when riding one-handed as it's so damn smooth.

itboffin

Rolf F wrote:

Dead easy - get Spa cycles to supply one of these to fit (or whatever they have which will fit) : http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/strongli ... 55188.html

Then build an n+1 around the Record headset

That's what I took off

rjsterry

itboffin wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

So the steerer is too short - i.e. not enough thread sticking out at the top to properly engage the locknut?

Well, the locknut shouldn't be taking the load - it's just to stop the top race loosening off - so that would suggest you could make do, but you are always going to have to keep checking that it's not worked loose, and you won't be able to tighten the locknut much as that'll just strip the thread.

If the steerer is too short to engage the locknut at all then your just hoping that the top race won't work loose, which it will, closely followed by hitting a bump and trashing your £60 nearly new headset.

Has sir considered alternative 1" headsets? Perhaps Stronglight or dare I say it Dura Ace? Or a rummage on ebay for something suitably retro.

Makes mental note to check stack height before buying headset for Mercian.

You are correct the steerer is too short however it wasn't that long with the old headsets, as it's a quill stem i've tighten it so there's little chance of the bars coming loose.

but there's more .....

this all might not have been a problem had I managed to properly seat the crown race washer :oops: alas even amongst my awesome array of tools I do not have a bench vice so smashing the campag washer into place didn't go as planned.

Bodge = FAIL

Worse case I fall off on route or during the tweed run, this could happen anyway. That or I scrap the retro plans and go all modern carbon forks and seat post etc.

Oh for the love of... I should not be reading those two words in the same sentence!

I'm fairly sure a bench vice is cheaper than a Record headset <checks> yep.

Threaded steerers are usually just the right length. My Giant has a 1.5mm thick crappy reflector bracket/washer between the top race and locknut which I have to keep as other wise the locknut hits the top of the steerer before it tightens onto the top race.

Surely there's some rule against carbon on the tweed run?

itboffin

UndercoverElephant wrote:

itboffin wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Have you made sure that the fork race is properly seated at the very base of the steerer, and that you've pressed the cups into the frame sufficiently with no gaps? If you can fettle the install, you may just manage to get enough thread for the locknut to grip.

Bingo! that totally what I haven't done

Winks and salutes to the assembled hordes of fettle-fans.

As an aside, I have the threadless version of the Record headset on the new Genesis. It really is an absolute joy in use, the only pain is that I wobble a lot more when riding one-handed as it's so damn smooth.

Yup I have the 1 1/8 record on my carbon ribble beautiful work of art, even the fold out packaging it comes in, butter smooth too.

davis

itboffin wrote:

this all might not have been a problem had I managed to properly seat the crown race washer :oops: alas even amongst my awesome array of tools I do not have a bench vice so smashing the campag washer into place didn't go as planned.

Plastic plumbing pipe and a mallet? WORKSFORME (tm)

rolf_f

itboffin wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Dead easy - get Spa cycles to supply one of these to fit (or whatever they have which will fit) : http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/strongli ... 55188.html

Then build an n+1 around the Record headset

That's what I took off

Dunno why I linked to JE James - this is better: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b2s115p489

Anyway, nowt wrong with a Stronglight A9. Not as pretty as the Campag I admit but less than half the price and nobody else would notice! Certainly not an el crappo!

rjsterry

Also it has what looks like a fairly thick washer - which could be swapped fro something thinner - between the race and locknut.

itboffin

I might have a fettle in a minute just finish off this glass of red

itboffin

My OCFD got the better of me, headset now perfect, black finishing tape on bars replaced with red and front brake fettled.

rjsterry

Thank goodness for that. All this talk of 'smashing' the campag was a bit worrying. Also spotted this

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/headsets.html

Not quite Campy, but pretty all the same.

itboffin

Not only did I discover 6 crown race spacer/washer things amongst my spares but also the clearance from the front brake to the underside of said spacer/washer was very small, lucky I have a stash of brake spacers, much cleaner now.

Oh and I also trimmed the brake cables ready for caps. Now all I need is a suitable period water bottle.

Fireblade96

itboffin wrote:

....... Now all I need is a suitable period water bottle.

EKE_38BPM

itboffin wrote:

...Now all I need is a suitable period water bottle.

It holds 700ml and comes with a wooded mount. Perfect (apart from the inevitable spillage unless you neck some as you leave).

rjsterry

Bar mounted vage too retro?

http://www.theoldbicycleshowroom.co.uk/gunn--co-alloy-handlebar-mounted-water-bottle-cage-2183-p.asp

Or

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/water-bottles-cages/vo-retro-cage-type-ii-with-hook.html

itboffin

Had two pootles around the block mmmmm smooth ride ....

*rubs thighs* 8)