Why has every rider got great bike handling skills?

wordnumb

It's that moment of hesitation you need to get rid of - that thought of what could potentially go wrong but probably won't. Oddly, by thinking about what could potentially go wrong we increase the likelihood of it going wrong.

Maybe try leaving your brain in the car and ride without thinking about riding.

Anonymous

blablablacksheep wrote:

I know its a bad excuse but it does play a huge roll, i see many people out and about easly pushing 13-16+ stone bombing around a lot faster in places than myself, purely due to them having a far better bike.

lawman

Smoothness is definitely key, stay loose on the bike and let the bike do most of the work for you and you'll soon be surprised at how much you improve. Once you build your confidence session a section of trail and push abit more each time and again you get more confident and things become easier. Alot of the time it's a mental thing, as soon as you over come that barrier you'll find that your natural skills will go alot further than you thought, and you'll get away with alot of stuff you never thought you could do. And remember if you think your bike is limiting you, it probably is in some aspects, but usually the bike can do alot more than you can get it to do!!!

Thewaylander

Bike counts for little if you aint got the nuts or fitness to push it mind.

I can go pretty much as fast on my old specialized stumpy fsr on most trail center downs if not faster than my Dune R, it pedals better and trail center stuff isn't really steep or crazy. really takes a serious trail to get the mondraker showing it's colours over the XC bike on the downs.

So i doubt it's hugely the bike. Unless you ride a £200 internet special

welshkev

blablablacksheep wrote:

maybe they have better bike?

I know its a bad excuse but it does play a huge roll, i see many people out and about easly pushing 13-16+ stone bombing around a lot faster in places than myself, purely due to them having a far better bike.

other thing could be like i said above weight, if you too heavy or unfit it doesnt help.

climbs on bikes really need goof fitness to not only push up hill but to carry on though the top and over, this is where the pros can push hard uphill then change up a gear on the top of hill and attack though

most of what you just said there is rubbish. i weigh 14 stone (probably 1.5-2 stone above my ideal weight) i ride 2 or 3 times a week and am not fast or slow really. i can ride most climbs, ok not as quick as slimmer fitter riders and i can descend fairly quickly - but so can my mate on his £400 trek hardtail compared to my £1800 full susser. but i also own a £400 spesh hardrock hardtail that i can hammer with the best of them!!

it's all about building basic bike handling skills and confidence, then you can do pretty much anything

Stiff_Orange

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Even though he is in control of the bike, he still has no direct control over the tiny little movements the bike is making under him, he's just "guiding" it over the line he wants.

+1

You have to learn to trust your bike. It's very easy to 'over-ride' a bike and try to force it around every little lump or rock, however you'll get more speed if you just keep the bike heading in the right general direction and let it handle all the tricky stuff.

Start on fairly gentle sloping track like a bridleway. Focus you eyes about 20-30 feet in front of the bike to spot any obstacles. Don't look at the front wheel or just in front of it.
In the Attack position take your body weight on your pedals, keep your body loose and a loose grip on the bars.
Just roll down, keeping sighted on whats 20-30 feet ahead smoothly steering around any large objects. Let the bike move under you, don't try to over control it.
Once you got the hand of it, move onto harder, narrower tracks, You'll soon learn than the bike has a much better idea of how to clear this type of terrain than you do.

joshtp

Stiff_Orange wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Even though he is in control of the bike, he still has no direct control over the tiny little movements the bike is making under him, he's just "guiding" it over the line he wants.

+1

You have to learn to trust your bike. It's very easy to 'over-ride' a bike and try to force it around every little lump or rock, however you'll get more speed if you just keep the bike heading in the right general direction and let it handle all the tricky stuff.

Start on fairly gentle sloping track like a bridleway. Focus you eyes about 20-30 feet in front of the bike to spot any obstacles. Don't look at the front wheel or just in front of it.
In the Attack position take your body weight on your pedals, keep your body loose and a loose grip on the bars.
Just roll down, keeping sighted on whats 20-30 feet ahead smoothly steering around any large objects. Let the bike move under you, don't try to over control it.
Once you got the hand of it, move onto harder, narrower tracks, You'll soon learn than the bike has a much better idea of how to clear this type of terrain than you do.

nail. head. hit it.

totally, dont try to "micro manage" the bike... it's all about guiding it down the hill.. not guiding it around the trail... if you watch someone like gee ath' (he's a prime example) he's looking way ahead (also a majorly important skill to learn... im not very good, but it's dead important) and just letting the bike roll down the hill, guiding it in the direction he wants to go....

forgotrafe

I suggest you go on a training course - ideally on a one-to-one basis. Would be money well spent.

Also look at tyres and pedals - they might be causing you to loose confidence.

Anonymous

Tyres and pedals have very little to do with improving your skills. Throwing money at things is not the answer.

forgotrafe

Actually, this is probably our club (MB Swindon) is getting such a great following (started last year, now over 120). We take the time to make people feel welcome, to get them more confident, to point out simple changes to technique and components that'll make a huge difference.

forgotrafe

yeehaamcgee - I disagree.

If you've pedals that provide no grip then you'll not have the confidence to attack things for fear of slipping off them.

If you've tyres that don't provide grip on the surfaces you ride, you'll have no confidence to go at any speed for fear of the bike sliding out from under you.

The tyres and, especially, pedals often supplied with bikes are often not appropriate.

I lead lots of novice rides and run training courses and see this problem all the time. I've also ridden with both pedals and tyres that killed my confidence.

So I stand by what I said. The OP should consider a training course but also compare/discuss their tyre & pedal choice with those the "better riders" they mention in case there's something there.

xtremedash

There's some really sounds advice on here so far. From looking at what you're saying I'd definitely say look into getting on a skills course. As an instructor I've seen this quite a bit. Especially if the rider often rides alone.

When it comes to descents you can either guide the bike down and go with the flow, or hold on for dear life and hope for the best. Often people drag their rear brake and 'fall' down the descent at a slow speed they feel comfortable with. In actual fact if you attack a descent and push the bike into every corner and bump it will flow far more.

The best way to learn some of this is to get on a skills course, ideally you want to be learning about 'pumping' the bike. Once your confidence increases you'll be able to go faster, the faster you can go the more you'll be 'floating' over the tops of obstacles, rather than up and down them. This will give you a much better flow.

Hope this is helpful.

paulbox

Lots of good advice on this thread. I find myself in a similar position to the OP, though I can't get up the hills either... :oops:

For me it's confidence, I know that I can do most stuff, but I've had a couple of issues lately that are playing on my mind all the time. I had a freak blowout of my front tyre which caused a nasty off as the tyre and tube came of the rim. I also had a front wheel washout on my road bike. Luckily in both cases the physical scars of both were only skin/paint deep, but unfortunately the mental ones jump up and down like mad when I'm doing anything which is a bit fast or tricky.

The problems this creates are ridiculous, on Saturday I was going pretty quickly down a bridle path. Mixed surface conditions from dry to muddy patches with some ruts but nothing major. Approaching the bottom there was a slight right hander and I tried to slow, front wheel went in a muddy rut and I went over the top and in to some nettles, nice. There was no need to try to slow, I know it was easily rideable.

Sunday I was doing the red run at Aston Hill, I didn't have the confidence to do what I know is right and just let the bike move about under me, I stayed slow and made life really difficult over the roots. As I got near the bottom I hit the boardwalk bit (don't know what those wooden sections are called) and was nervouse of the big drop on the left, so stuck to the right hand side. My bar therefore hit a tree on the right and I fell off the left hand side.... :roll: Luckily I got away with a scraped forearm and some bruising to my shoulder.

It is doing my head in!

Anonymous

forgotrafe wrote:

yeehaamcgee - I disagree.

If you've pedals that provide no grip then you'll not have the confidence to attack things for fear of slipping off them.

Very few pedals and tyres are so bad that they will not allow you to improve technique.

forgotrafe

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Very few pedals and tyres are so bad that they will not allow you to improve technique.

True, hence I suggest comparing them to what others have. It'll be obvious if they're the sort to be causing an issue. Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself very clear the first time round.

Quite a few people have come on my training courses/novice rides with pedals like these as they were standard on the bike:



Add in normal tread trainers and there's really not a lot of grip.

Good thing with my other suggestion of going on a training course is that the instructor should pick up on a bike where the pedals/tyres are likely to be an issue.

dan shard

my 2p on this is just try not to worry about it. You're not in a race, you're not being payed so just go at your own pace and enjoy it!

That said, the best thing I ever did was to concentrate on loosening my grip on the bar. Just having a feather light grip makes the rest of your body loosen up. The single biggest thing for slowing you down and throwing you off is being tense on the bike, it leads to not being able to turn the bar, panic at obsticals and complete loss of control. With a light grip you can get back so much more control and you quickly start to get that insane grin back

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Tyres and pedals have very little to do with improving your skills. Throwing money at things is not the answer.

Half agree with this... 100% agree with the sentiment But riding's a lot about confidence and if your kit's undermining that- even if it's perfectly good this can happen- then that's going to be a bit of a barrier. Even when hardware's not the problem sometimes just fannying around with it can be the solution, all part of the various ways you can outsmart your brain.

(I had a mate who was struggling on a motorbike trackday, no confidence in corners, we "fixed his tyre pressures"- took the caps off, let out about a millionth of a PSI from each end, put caps back on. Went out next session and was far faster. No change at all that counted but he believed he'd had a hardware problem and we'd fixed it. Brains are rubbish. )

cavegiant

Two tips,

1: skills course, amazing jump in my skills.

2: practice.
This is not just go ride, if you continually corner badly, you will get better at cornering badly.
memorise the technique, and make sure you follow the technique to the letter on every corner (not just the corners you think you need the skill on, every corner).

Every corner I go around, weight forwards and low, countersteer then whip back, weight fully on outside position, shoulders low, outside elbow high, lean in, overtilt bike.

Do that on every corner for a few weeks you will get good.

yoohoo999

Throwing money at things is not the answer.

That depends. Works all the time for me when i'm strip clubs.

Johnny Napalm

Some brilliant advice coming through here, although I'll probably never be able to concentrate in future - everytime I attempt something I'll be thinking of Yeehaa getting hot and bothered over CD!

I do try to force the bike over and around everything, and not micro-managing does make sense now I've thought about it...something I've never even considered. I can see how trying to force the bike will cause issues.

Last year I had a spell, which was one of my best moments in a long time. For a few weeks I made the decision that I was going to keep going over the same trail with the aim to build up speed. Every time I went down there I got that little bit faster until at one point I was even pedalling, where possible, to obtain even more speed. I managed that on quite a few occasions, which left me feeling pretty chuffed with myself. I looked ahead, maintained the attack-position, relaxed and it all seemed to come together, but the last few times I've done this trail recently it's been pretty dire.

I can't blame my HT or FS because I've seen people on old steel HT's ride some pretty gnarly trails at speed...so the issue is definitely with the rider and not the equipment.

I'm going to aim to try and get out more and I am grateful for all the great tips and advice.

Anonymous

Johnny Napalm wrote:

I can't blame my HT or FS because I've seen people on old steel HT's ride some pretty gnarly trails at speed...so the issue is definitely with the rider and not the equipment.

That is precisely why I say that throwing money at something is bullcrap (apart from skills course, I can see how they could be really beneficial).
All of the long-term mtbers started off on crap bikes with crap tyres, crap brakes, and crap pedals. The techniques were just as valuable.
If you're buying into things to overcome weaknesses like pedal technique, then you'll be forever chasing that next purchase rather than getting the technique nailed.

mak3m

yoohoo999 wrote:

Throwing money at things is not the answer.

That depends. Works all the time for me when i'm strip clubs.

so thats what you do with all the money peeps throw at you damn lawyers

Stiff_Orange

yeehaamcgee wrote:

All of the long-term mtbers started off on crap bikes with crap tyres, crap brakes, and crap pedals. The techniques were just as valuable.

I started MTBing a few years ago on full sussers then I bought a 20 year old fully rigid Orange Clockwork (hence my tag), It's far from being crap bike, In fact it's one of the best handling bikes I've every ridden. But it has taught how me how to ride a bike properly.

Johnny Napalm wrote:

I do try to force the bike over and around everything, and not micro-managing does make sense now I've thought about it...something I've never even considered. I can see how trying to force the bike will cause issues.

By Jove, I think he's got it. Seriously though, good luck mate it will come with time/practice

pilsburypie

I am by no means an expert, but here is what helps me:

Drop your saddle on downs - I have my saddle set the same for 80% of my ride, good for ups and the tamer downs. But when I'm at the top of the gooduns I drop the saddle. This is because I find it easier to throw the bike around underneath me and if my saddle were right up I feel like it will buckeroo me off on bigger drops and jumps. Really helps my speed and confidence.

Big sticky tyres - a twofold effect..... I like my 2.35 supertacky High Roller. Has some drag but sticks like spunk to a bath - more importantly I believe it and it gives me confidence!

Follow a mate on the downs - I often ride with mates. when I am behing them I am faster than them all. Right on their back wheel easily keeping up and feeling able to go much faster if they moved aside. When they are behing me, they are on my back wheel doing the same! Just use their lines or not if you see them make an error...... so much easier

Session a section - has been mentioned but get really familiar with little bits at a time. Learn how to nail each one and what works and doesnt. Time yourself and aim to beat previous times.

Check your suspension setup - fiddle with it to get it feeling the best

Experiment with tyre pressure - go lower to see if it helps grip and confidence....

Brake harder for less time - I used to drag my brakes a bit or just slow myself into corners. Now I try and just blast as fast as I can for as long as I dare then slam on the brakes just before hitting the corner then blast as fast as I can out......

Confidence and belief are key - both build in time

PS did I mention I am no expert

tomstickland

The final result is the combination of bike and rider.
Having the kit that suits that task makes it easier for a rider to gain confidence and it's confidence that allows the rider to get better.

Start slow and build up.

Someone else watching might be able to tell you if you're doing anything really wrong.

Atz

Footwork (pedals level on flatter bits, uphill pedal down on corners), looking (look for the apex on the entry of a corner, look to and past the exit after that because generally the bike goes where you look) and positioning (neutral, not forward or back unless you're doing something VERY steep). The bike is FAR more capable than you are so just make sure you're not limiting it. Oh, and no braking mid-section.

I recently had a course with jedi and one of my big problems that he fixed was dropping my shoulder on corners rather than pushing my bike down. That one thing alone probably took 5-10% off my average time down trails.

Break a trail down, focus on each part and ride again and again until you're sure it's technically right. If it is, the speed will come.

Anonymous

What does "uphill pedal" mean?

Thewaylander

The only one i partially disagree on with Yee is the tyes.

Some Nobby nic's 2.1s i had a few years back caused me to crash every ride i was on some great bruises from them. Never felt anything so slippy other than one of those plastic sheets covered in fairy liquid and water for sliding on

But it's down to developing good technique, carrying a bit of speed and being as confident as you can be that your gonna make it.

concorde

I think I fall down on the cornering bit? Anyone put in in simle terms. So I don't lean with bike is that right? Just stay up right(ish) ??? Confused a bit!

popstar

JohnyN some peeps love uplift days, and others don't. If the best feeling you get from climbing then why not book downhill lift service instead? You won't be the first one to do it, some (bizarre) Germans did. I wish to be uber fit like them.

MTB-ing is not all about going downhill fast, there are so many aspects to it. Covering great distances, enjoying great views, crossing running streams navigating all around etc, you get idea? Relax and enjoy what you do best. Don't take too much advice how to ride proper on e-net, it just won't work. Get skills course with ProInstructor instead, your world of riding will be changed. Riding bikes is eezzz bro.