First outing on the new road bike...

nation

after riding mountain bikes for years. First impressions (this is just a quick few miles down the road and back, proper distances and commutes to follow):

- FAST. Ridiculously easy to gain/maintain speed. Tripped one of those "Your speed is..." radar guns at 20mph uphill. Also noticed that because of this, and the fact that the road bike is geared much higher than my MTB I ended up stopping at lights a couple of times still in a gear I was barely able to turn from a standstill.

- Scary brakes. Don't know if I'll get used to this or if I need to try some better pads (have the standard Tektro pads), but you really need to haul on the anchors to generate some braking force, you can't just squeeze the levers.

- No grip. I thought I would be prepared for this because it seems obvious that the 25 tyres on the road bike will be less grippy than the 2.2 knobblies or 1.5 slicks I've used before, but it still caught me by surprise just how nervous and skittery the bike was in the bends. Combined with the above means that I'm kind of wondering whether the rear brake should basically be considered decorative.

Fun though. Even though this was just a couple of miles on the cheapy flat pedals it came with (still waiting on the clipless turning up) I think I've figured out the answer to the perennial MTBer's question "Why do roadies like tarmac so much?"

Variado

The brakes bit doesn't sound right, there's a difference in feel IMO if you're used to MTB disks but i've never lacked stopping power on my road bike - properly set and with decent pads it's easy to get 'normal' braking with just a light pull from the hoods, and plenty more if you need it.

So I'd guess you need to get the brakes setup properly and replace pads if it's come with el cheapo ones (suspect the former though). As for the bike feeling twitchy, you get used to it and after a while a MTB will start to feel like a complete lump outside it's native offroad environment.

nation

I'm pretty sure the brakes are set up fine, the lever travel isn't excessive and the pads are square with the rim and making good contact.

I'm suspicious of the pads more than anything. It's a combination of the level of effort required and the lack of modulation. The rear particularly is very on/off, especially with the rear end unweighted.

unixnerd

The brakes may need to bed in a bit. I'd also wonder if your hand position when using them is correct, you may not be getting enough leverage. You may need to adjust the angle of the handlebars.

The grip thing depends a lot on tyres. To give an extreme example the 28mm Scwalbe Marathons on my tourer give a LOT more grip than the 23mm Continental UltraSports on the nice bike.

nation

When I got the bike I did move things around a bit to make the levers more accessible. I tipped the bars back a bit so the flat portion of the hoods is inclined towards me slightly, and used the reach adjustment blocks to move the neutral position of the brake lever closer to the bars.

The idea was that, from the hoods, I can cover the lever with my third and fourth fingers. It does make the brakes a bit of a stretch for my (index and third) fingers from the drops but I thought that was probably a worthwhile trade-off.

Tyres are Vittoria Zaffiros, and came with the bike. Don't really know anything about them.

unixnerd

What type of levers are they? Some can be adjusted for reach.

Specialized Needs

unixnerd wrote:

What type of levers are they? Some can be adjusted for reach.

nation wrote:

When I got the bike I did move things around a bit to make the levers more accessible. I tipped the bars back a bit so the flat portion of the hoods is inclined towards me slightly, and used the reach adjustment blocks to move the neutral position of the brake lever closer to the bars

I think he has. That sounds like the Shimano shims that allow either a 4 degree or 8 degree adjustment.

nation

Shimano ST2200. The bike is a 2011 Giant Defy 3. The reach adjustment is by swapping out the bump rubber that acts as the lever stop when you release it.

They come with 0, 4, and 8 degree blocks (the angle it moves the neutral position of the lever towards the bar). I swapped the 0 degree blocks with the 4 degree. The 8 is apparently only for use with anatomic-shaped bars, because of the risk of the lever contacting the bar and preventing you from braking properly.

The bars on it aren't anatomic, but I might give the 8 degree blocks a try, since the lever isn't anywhere near contacting the bars with the brakes fully applied at the moment (not that that's desirable, just that there seems to be plenty of adjustment room to play with).

andrewjoseph

It is scary easy to lock up a back road wheel, I tend to use the front brake a lot more and rely on it for stopping.

kurako

I had a similar experience when I first got my road bike. On the MTB I slam the brakes on and I know I'm gonna stop.

The pads and rims will be shiny and smooth so they'll need time to bed in a bit. You'll never stop as fast due to the smaller tyres/ higher pressure. You just need to adjust your riding a bit and try to anticipate problems. Just because you can ride faster doesn't mean it's wise to do it at all times.

Try to get used to using the front brake more. Its way more efficient.

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

Good luck. Nice choice of bike BTW.

Marcus_C

andrewjoseph wrote:

It is scary easy to lock up a back road wheel, I tend to use the front brake a lot more and rely on it for stopping.

+1 to that, I can't remember the last time I used the back brake on mine.

unixnerd

I can remember the last time I used the back brake, mainly because I still have the gravel rash to prove it.

Valy

Hmmm, if you are used to MTB brakes, then maybe that's why they feel a bit scary. Though I had BB5s on my MTB and the the stock ones on Allez 16 and Tiagra ones feel alright - not as much stopping power from speed/downhills.

As for the bike feeling nervous - you feel the bumos much much more with such low volumes and high pressures, so yeah on bumpy surfaces the grip is liekly to be compromised, on smooth roads though, should not be too much of an issue.

Having had a MTB and now only having a road bike I initially did miss the bridleways and hardpacks, but after discovering some really nice roads around-ish where I live, I really like it, but still would not mind going on the C2C routes from time to time! :P

optimisticbiker

While using the front brake alone will stop you, the fastest & safest way to stop on tarmac is using both!

Just as with a race car the trick is to get the balance between front and back right... too much rear and you'll lock the back wheel, especially when it unloads under heavy braking (and usually you're off the saddle too as your weight transfers forward), too much front under the same conditions and you'll find the bike trying to swap ends (esp if you're steering as well, or on a painted surface/manhole cover/etc in the wet).

Twostage

I switched to commuting on my MTB last week whilst re-spraying my road commuter/trainer. The biggest difference I noticed was how much stopping power I had with the MTB. With the road bike you have to anticipate but with the MTB you just wait until the last second and slam them on.

bails87

One reason they feel very on/off could be because the tyres have got much less grip than the big knobbly, squidgy MTB tyres that you're used to. I noticed the same thing when I switched, when I first touched the back brake I locked it up. You need a much more delicate touch on the road bike because there's a very fine line between not stopping because the brakes aren't touching the rim, and not stopping because you've locked the wheels up.

Whereas on the MTB with big tyres and hydros you can just grab both levers stop on a dime, as the saying goes.!

sfichele

Yeh - road bikes don't seem to be designed for stopping.

It's taken me ages to get used to braking efficiently without locking up on fast descents. You have to use both brakes, initially putting more force on the front, and as you being slowing down, then apply more pressure to the back brake.

On a mountain bike with disk brakes you simply use your little finger.

Valy

Are some people seriously saying that they are not using the rear brake? That's retarded.

Not sure why a few are making out braking on a road bike as some dark art. Though I suppose if you are used to mindlessly slamming brakes on, then maybe it would be a bit hard, but still... the rear does not lock up in a snap at the touch of the lever.

Meh guess it's a bit of getting used, but as I say (okay not hydraulics) I had BB5s on my MTB and did not have any major problems getting used to modulation. The tires matter too.

andrewjoseph

I'm not saying I don't use the rear brake, I'm saying that I use the front brake much more. that is where 70% of the braking force is applied.

As you say, modulation is the key but so is braking method. Trying to brake whilst cornering is not recommended, so all of the braking should be done before the corner when upright and in a straight line, and the front brake (combined with back) is the best way to brake.

Even when riding my mtb,, most of my braking is on the front wheel, perhaps 80:20, on my road bike it's probably 90-10.

I use the back brake to control speed, front and rear brake to slow down and stop.

Craggers

Valy wrote:

Are some people seriously saying that they are not using the rear brake? That's retarded.

+1

I use my rear brake loads... especially in traffic for fine speed control whilst manouvering, also when I enter a corner a bit too quickly and need to scrub some speed. Course if I need to stop quickly the front brake is boss.

As for the skittishness... I'd spend some cash on decent tyres. OE rubber is generally crap.

Marcus_C

Valy wrote:

Are some people seriously saying that they are not using the rear brake? That's retarded.

I probably should have put 'in anger' in my post but I don't use it nearly as much, probably about 95%/5%, after a few months my rear brake pad is pretty much new, the front one is wearing down nicely. I probably do need to address my riding style in all sorts of ways but it works for me.

When I got back into cycling about 4 years ago I absorbed advice about braking very similar to this page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html It seems fairly logical to me, maybe i'm wierd.

Valy

AJ - Well yeah, that goes without saying more or less.

I tend to just use both brakes to stop slow down and stop. My rear has worn out when front had about 1/2 or 4/7 left though. Same on my MTB where the rear pads wore out before the front and I was like :?

Guys in the bike shop said that people use the rear to slow down and you could say brushing speed off etc a lot more and the front one is for stopping.

desweller

By definition, you are applying maximum braking force when the rear wheel is just about to leave the ground, so the rear brake is almost superfluous in an emergency stop in the dry.

In the wet, of course, is a slightly different matter.

andrewjoseph

Valy wrote:

AJ - Well yeah, that goes without saying more or less.

I tend to just use both brakes to stop slow down and stop. My rear has worn out when front had about 1/2 or 4/7 left though. Same on my MTB where the rear pads wore out before the front and I was like :?

Guys in the bike shop said that people use the rear to slow down and you could say brushing speed off etc a lot more and the front one is for stopping.

So are you saying I'm not so retarded or that you are also a bit 'slow'.

The rear pads on my road and mtb are replaced much less than my front. Take a look at the sheldon brown link above.

sfichele

One the flat there is no skill to using brakes on a road bike.

However, when descending big hills at speed if you apply more force to the rear brake you are going to be in the 5h:t.That's why you have to initially use more power on the front and then bring in the rear brake.

bails87

sfichele wrote:

One the flat there is no skill to using brakes on a road bike.
quote]

:?
It depends massively on road conditions and why you're trying to stop. Stopping on a bumpy, mud covered country lane, whilst turning, because a 4X4 is flying towards you requires skill! Slowing to gentle stop on a dry road, with no traffic about is easier.

sfichele

^ Fair enough

I was trying to make the point that on fast descents you need to be quite careful about your braking

jedster

My "road" bike is a CX and it has cantis on it so not strictly comparable but I have never found the brakes to be as reassuring as on a MTB (even just v-brakes, never mind hydraulic discs). I have to get a big handful of the levers and pull hard to slow quickly and in the wet sometimes it takes a while before the pads really grip the rims. Compare it to one-finger braking on a MTB... very different.

That said, I totally disagree about tyres. IME nobbly MTB tyres are very skittish on tarmac, expecially when cornering in the wet - you just don't get smooth consistent road contact. On a loose surface its completely different of course. I agree with the comment above - try some better tyres.

On front and back braking, I generally use both but apply more pressure to the front. I have twice had offs due to losing the front wheel and I'll deal with a rear wheel slide in preference any day!

J

nation

Got a couple of commutes under my belt now, and either I'm getting used to the brakes or the pads are bedding in a bit.

Definitely riding a lot more tentatively than I used to, though. I'm putting that down to the fact that on approach to junctions, roundabouts, etc. the point at which you need to either commit to rolling through them or to coming to a halt (i.e. the distance within which you can successfully perform an emergency stop) is so much further out. The fact that braking on a curve really upsets the bike doesn't help.

I'm actually quite glad I haven't got the SPDs I ordered for it yet, since there have been a couple of moments where I've dabbed when the bike has seriously wagged its tail (once a white line, once a drain cover). I could probably still have salvaged those clipped in, I think, though.

Interestingly I've noticed that I still pivot my foot on the pedal whenever I put a foot down, as if releasing from SPDs.

Valy

andrewjoseph wrote:

Valy wrote:

AJ - Well yeah, that goes without saying more or less.

I tend to just use both brakes to stop slow down and stop. My rear has worn out when front had about 1/2 or 4/7 left though. Same on my MTB where the rear pads wore out before the front and I was like :?

Guys in the bike shop said that people use the rear to slow down and you could say brushing speed off etc a lot more and the front one is for stopping.

So are you saying I'm not so retarded or that you are also a bit 'slow'.

The rear pads on my road and mtb are replaced much less than my front. Take a look at the sheldon brown link above.

I'm not with you. Spell it out.