All round bike but mainly for commute

danbrum

Hi all.

I currently have a battered old pinnacle stratus 1.0 which is slow and heavy and too unreliable for long rides. Manages the commute but is not much fun to ride and got it off my brother so it's a bit to small for me.

I'm looking for a new bike which I'll be mainly using for my 5 mile each way commute but I would also like to use it for longer rides at weekends and possibly a multi day trip when I have the chance. Currently at work I have storage but that may not always be the case.

I know I'm not going to find anything thats really that good for all uses so I have been weighing up the pros and cons of different types of bikes but still not sure which way to go so some advice would be helpful. I'm looking to spend £300 - £500 but that would include pedals, cleats etc. I don't mind buying second hand but don't have other transport to pick up so may take a while to get a good deal with my size frame locally. Fine with doing some maintenance myself (I have been at the moment anyway).

Choice 1 - Put thinner wheels and tyres on my bike.

Pros: initaially cheapest, would make the bike faster.
Cons: bike still too small, other components still need replacing soon, not worth buying new bits for such a low value bike.

Choice 2- High end hybrid with thin tyres.

Pros: More robust, more comfortable for the commute, less likely to get nicked, can fit racks for longer journeys, fine over some of the bumpy roads I use, better components and frame than I have already.
Cons: Still slower than a road bike, spending the same money on a higher end hybrid when I could get a proper roadbike feels strange for some reason, less good second hand deals.

Choice 3- Road bike

Pros: Fastest, seems to be better value than similar prices hybrids in terms of components, fun to ride, best for the open roads.
Cons: More delicate, commute might trash the components, may not able to fit racks?, thief magnet.

Choice 4- Road style single speed/fixie

Pros: Would be fast on the commute, low maintenance, no expensive components to get trashed by all the crap on city roads, looks fun.
Cons: Probably to knackering for long rides (especially hilly ones), never ridden one so might not like it, seem expensive because of fasion, don't want to look like a hipster

Seeing as there is so much choice out there please help me narrow it down!

Headhuunter

Choice 1 - Sounds like you really want a new bike so scrap this

Choice 2 - Could be a good choice. Would give you a more "sit up" position than a road bike which you may prefer. As for it being slower than an equivalently priced road bike, I shouldn't think you'd notice much difference on a commute of a few miles but if you're thinking of entering sportives and joining a club for weekend rides then a hybrid's probably a no go. Also I don't think a high end high hybrid is any less likely to be nicked than an equivalently priced road bike. It's likely that a high end, road orientated hybrid will have a very similar spec to a similar road bike anyway, it'll just have slightly different frame geometry and flat bars. Thieves will still go for it.

Choice 3 - Also possibly a good choice. More aggressive position which you may not like. As for it being "delicate" - no. Have yuo ever watched races on carbon road bikes over cobbles in Belgium? Road bikes are not especially delicate... Not a thief magnet, well no more than an equivalent hybrid.

Choice 4 - Good on the flat unless you have hills to tackle? Low on maintanence (no gearing to adjust etc). Not much good on long club runs or sportives. Good for track riding and around town but that's about it.

Choice 5 - Perhaps a touring or audax bike? The gearing will be designed for longer, slower rides with panniers of stuff. They will take racks on both front and back as well as mudguards. The geometry is more comfortable and less agressive than a standard road bike.

If I were you I would try out some high end hybrids and compare the feel to similarly priced road bikes and chuck in an audax/tourer in to see how they feel and go for whichever one you like most...

danbrum

Hmm thanks for the advice, even more choice now! Yes I did think a tourer would be ideal but would have to wait second hand as they seem too expensive new. What is an audax bike, they look very similar to a roadbike?

I'm not too bothered about keeping up with people on club runs, it was more just would be nice to do a long ride at weekends by myself or with mates, the going fast bit is more because I enjoy going fast, maybe I would get into a club at some point but that's not something I feel I need to consider in this choice. I think a tourer would be good but due to cost I'm leaning towards a hybrid, although I do prefer dropped handlebars and a more road style riding position.

Any advice on a good hybrid or tourer < £500 (preferable <£400) including commonly available second hand ones?

wgwarburton

Hi,
My advice would be to look at a light tourer (or audax bike). Dawes Horizon, Revolution country Traveller/Explorer, Claud Butler Regent etc.

This isn't a fashionable sector at the moment, so prices aren't as competitive as some others. You may get a real bargain used, though (look for Dawes Galaxies, Raleigh Randonneurs and other classic Tourers. Dawes have been carrying the torch through some quite lean years!).

Watch specifications closely- in many ways the easiest way to turn a Tourer into an Audax bike is to take off the pannier racks and downspec the wheels (and vice-versa), so make sure you don't save £50 off a bike that needs £60 of upgrades!

Most of the above are higher than your budget, but will give a good idea of what these bikes are about. Once you have the concept clear you can work out what compromises work best for you- eg you might get a bike with provision for racks, mudguards etc but delay buying them until you really need them, instead of needing to pay upfront.

Cheers,
W.

kelsen

You forgot to include a cyclocross bike. Effectively a road built built to beefier specs to withstand occasional off-roading. Quite a few of us use these for daily commuting. Not sure if you'll find one for under £500 though.

wgwarburton

kelsen wrote:

You forgot to include a cyclocross bike. Effectively a road built built to beefier specs to withstand occasional off-roading. Quite a few of us use these for daily commuting. Not sure if you'll find one for under £500 though.

...also the OP made no mention of offroad use- just bumpy roads. From what I've seen he'd get a heavier bike, probably with wide, shallow-drop CX 'bars and a more upright riding postion (obviously depending on the particular model).
I would expect a touring/audax bike to be lighter, more comfortable and better set up for the sort of longer trips and road use the OP posited.

Don't get me wrong- I have nothing against CX bikes... I'd take one over most hybrids any day but I'm not convinced they make the best starting point for a non-racing road bike.

Cheers,
W.

Headhuunter

danbrum wrote:

Hmm thanks for the advice, even more choice now! Yes I did think a tourer would be ideal but would have to wait second hand as they seem too expensive new. What is an audax bike, they look very similar to a roadbike?

I'm not too bothered about keeping up with people on club runs, it was more just would be nice to do a long ride at weekends by myself or with mates, the going fast bit is more because I enjoy going fast, maybe I would get into a club at some point but that's not something I feel I need to consider in this choice. I think a tourer would be good but due to cost I'm leaning towards a hybrid, although I do prefer dropped handlebars and a more road style riding position.

Any advice on a good hybrid or tourer < £500 (preferable <£400) including commonly available second hand ones?

I think Audax bikes are similar if not the same as tourers.... Audax events are long distance treks for several hundred miles which involve carrying luggage and everything you need to sustain yourself. Ribble does an audax/winter training bike which has eyes for mudguards and racks I think and costs (last time I looked) about £570 for the basic version... Sounds like an audax or tourer would be perfect for you.

hstiles

I'd second a cyclocross bike. A search on ebay turns up a number of very good deals. If you could push your budget to £600, you'd pick up a bike with light alloy frame, carbon forks and Shimano Sora or even Tiagra gearing. If you're really lucky, something like a Voodoo Limba will crop up for silly money, and you'll get Shimano Tiagra/105 mixed groupset.

I've used mine for a 10 mile each way commute, with both slick and knobbly tyres, tow paths, offroad, suburban and road use - pretty much everything.

Try one - you might be surprised.

The Rookie

Look at the Carrera Gryphon Hybrid from Halfords, good and solid, well priced and the frame is less attractive to tea leaves, the V-brake is £250, £300 for Disc.

Simon

stuartturbo

hstiles wrote:

I'd second a cyclocross bike.

Third that one
This is what i am now getting for the 20mile commute.
Preferred the hybrid for strength, storage and better braking over a road bikes speed and felt 120kg may destroy the wheel on the rubbish road we have).
Then LBS recommended the cyclocross from Specialised and that sold me.

Crustyod

How about a Specialized Secteur - it includes mounts for a rear rack and Websters have £150 off the basic model with carbon fork bring reducing it to a penny under £400. Check out the ling belwo which gives the specification.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/buyandse ... #websters1

hstiles

@stuartturbo

Brakes are the one thing that should put most people off cyclocross bikes. My cross bike has avid shorty 4 brakes and I've had to develop a braking technique that invlves pulling on the levers as hard as possible whilst screaming "fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck" to stop in time.

Conversely, I took my new road bike out for a test ride a couple of weeks ago, jammed on the brakes as I approached some traffic and nearly got launched over the handlebars.

Drysuitdiver

one more vote for cyclocross. have a look on wiggle , my Brother In Law found one on there for me last yera ( i didn't buy it) I think my n+1 is going to be cyclocross.

nigglenoo

I have heard of problems with the cantilever brakes on cross bikes, but most of it is in relation to noise and judder at the front when you have a cable hanger at the top of the headset and a carbon steerer, as on previous Specialized Tricross models. The solution to this is an 'uphanger' bolted to the top of the fork instead.

However, IMO, a cross bikes is built for the purpose of hooning around on tracks for short-medium distances and only achieves comfort by virtue of its very large section tyres, which will tend to slow you down. What the OP is looking for is something with longer distance comfort with as little compromise to speed/rolling resistance as possible, i.e. something between a load carrying tourer and a road bike, which is what an audax bikes is.

The Ribble audax/winter trainer is probably the best value but is limited by very tight clearances, even 25mm tyres can be difficult to fit apparently with mudguards, and Ribble have an unfortunate reputation for delivery delays.

For slightly more clearance, 25mm. for definite, possibly 28mm with mudguards, check out the Tifosi CK7 audax bikes, I'm buying the frame to build to my own spec., but built bikes are available for a variety of specs and pockets, eg: http://www.velodromeshop.org.uk/index.p ... uct&id=644

Bike Radar review here: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... a-10-39421

Alternatively look at Kinesis Racelight T2, a bit more expensive new but common enough to turn up fairly frequently on Ebay used. Has plenty of clearance and a good reputation

Headhuunter

I really don't get the attraction of cyclo X bikes. If you are doing a lot of offroad riding, then fair enough, but otherwise it just means greater weight with greater traction from knobbly tyres and I don't even think you're guaranteed mudguard and rack fittings which you woudl get on a tourer or audax bike.... Buying a CX bike when you're riding on the road 99% of the time is like buying a light Suzuki 4x4 type thing for driving to your mum's...

wgwarburton

Hi,
I don't want to impune anyone, here, but would the guys advocating CX bikes mind posting their experience with touring/audax style machines?

I have to admit I haven't ridden a CX bike very far, but it did strike me that the riding position (it was a TriCross Comp, BTW), geometry and general setup was clearly a bit different from the bikes I'm used to (traditional road bikes, not contemporary race-machinery) and less suited to comfortable road miles. It also made me look closer at the other CX bikes around to see if the design features are shared, which they generally seem to be.

Now, as I said earlier, I don't have anything against them, and the experience of several people (including Wallace's touring exploits, and my friend who's planning a four day LEJoG on said TriCross) highlights their versatility... but that doesn't necessarily mean that they would be the bike of choice for the OP.

I'm with Headhuunter on this. For utility road use and occasional light touring the best tool for the job is a light-touring or audax bike... It's what they are built for. If a specialist bike like this is too expensive, then use the design principles to get the closest match you can within your circumstances.

Cheers,
W.

PS I think it's a sorry state of affairs that these bikes are unpopular. IMHO lightweight, versatile road bikes with provision for 'guards and racks ought to be the most sought-after ride in town...The VW Golf of the cycling world, available as an estate, hot-hatch or cabrio or rebadged as a coupe for those with a sporty bent :-)

The Rookie

WGWarburton wrote:

Hi,
I think it's a sorry state of affairs that these bikes are unpopular. IMHO lightweight, versatile road bikes with provision for 'guards and racks ought to be the most sought-after ride in town...The VW Golf of the cycling world, available as an estate, hot-hatch or cabrio or rebadged as a coupe for those with a sporty bent :-)

You don't want the VW Golf, that would be overpriced for what you get, much better off with the Ford Focus of the cycling world..........besides the Golf is usually the least versatile in the range, for example I had a Seat Toldeo, same chassis and engine as a Golf but (used) 25% of the price, not to mention that the Toldeo had the longer rear floorpan of the Vento (which cost twice as much) giving more boot space and was a hatchback, so was actually the most useable car of the three.

Trouble is one Focus/Golf doesn't do all those things, the same as one bike can't do all those things as well as a specialist for each, so while I agree an Audax may be the best all rounder, it may well not be the best commuter.

Simon

Babber Goo

another vote for a cyclocross bike, here

hstiles

@WGWarburton

I've never ridden and audax or tourer, but have done extensive miles on a cyclocross bike - first as a Voodoo Limba I got cheap from Halfords, and after I'd broken two frames and opted for something stronger, the same bike based around a larger Kinesis Crosslight T5 frame.

The biggest difference is that cyclocross bikes tend to have a straight, rather than sloping top tube to aid portage. The frames are generally bulkier and, of course, designed for cantilever or V-brakes.

The Crosslight frame is also intended for touring - it has bosses for bottle cages and panier/rack mounting holes.

danbrum

Well thanks for all the replies everyone.

I think I will have to try a few bikes out to see how they feel, while waiting for a good deal to come along. I think I am leaning towards touring/audax bikes, but the cyclocross sounds interesting so I will try some of them out too, but I probably won't be riding offroad very much, at the most I will use the odd canal tow path but never on my commute.

walkingbootweather

Don’s get too hung up on semantics, the line between CX, audax and touring bikes can be a bit blurred. CX are more fashionable that tourers, but I’m in the WGW / Headhunter camp on this. Personally I’d be looking for decent steel frame and quality wheels for the sort of riding the OP wants to do. Just saying.

mickmcg

I've just bought a Kona Dew Drop for £460 from Triton Cycles, they're out of stock but Chain Reaction have them for £465 here:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=64959

it's solely for commuting/child seat/family bike ride duties and it's a cracking bike - not amazing at anything but good at pretty much everything, took it off road last night and it was not far off my CX (but much, much better brakes!) and isnt too bad on the road and would be fine with slicks

decent enough spec (mine came with Avid BB7 discs rather than the Shimano on the spec sheet) and looks really good too - could be a bit lighter but feels like it'll take anyhting I throw at it

could be worth a look

Variado

I really don't get the attraction of cyclo X bikes ... and I don't even think you're guaranteed mudguard and rack fittings which you woudl get on a tourer or audax bike

Apart from the gearing, which is too high, my CX bike is well thought through for actual CX riding. As a template for a commuting bike, less so. Some do have fittings, mine doesn't, and fitting a rack looks to be a complete pain - the curved seat stays and rear cantilever brake cable (+hanger) leave little room. Mudguards aren't particularly easy either.

So if the OP is tempted by a CX bike i'd suggest seeing the bike in a LBS before parting with any cash, don't buy unseen from ebay/the 'web, and make sure you can really fit guards/racks and all the rest to it.

danbrum

So just to add something else into the mix, would a light tourer/audax be ok on light offroad such as canal towpath and dirt tracks?

walkingbootweather

danbrum wrote:

So just to add something else into the mix, would a light tourer/audax be ok on light offroad such as canal towpath and dirt tracks?

It kinda depends. I have an old fashioned Raleigh Randonneur which is as tough as old boots. I've taken it places a lot of people don't take their mountain bikes and its never let me down. On the other hand I've also created a lightweight 'all-day' audax style bike with a titanium frame and carbon forks and I'd be nervous taking that over the rough stuff.

Unless you are very heavy or extremely rough, a decent quality steel frame and forks, with strong wheels and wider tyres will take you pretty much anywhere. At your price range aluminium frames are plentiful but (sweeping generalisation here) they tend to be pretty stiff, which can make them fast, but a bit harsh to ride on less than smooth surfaces.

danbrum

I would prefer light if possible, I don't mind a rough ride, I just don't want to break the bike.

walkingbootweather

danbrum wrote:

I would prefer light if possible.

Sure light is good and there are some real weight weanies here but to be honest a couple of pounds will make negligible difference - many people carry an extra few pounds on their body, or by carrying a lock, full water bottle, additional kit etc.

danbrum wrote:

II don't mind a rough ride

No one likes a rough ride (except perhaps the Receptionist :roll: ). A stiffer frame is great for putting down the power when you are racing or having a blast to work, but if you are going to spend hours at a time in the saddle you will appreciate having a little 'give'.

danbrum wrote:

I just don't want to break the bike.

Reasonable quality bikes are, on the whole, pretty tough. I have found cheaper wheels to be a weakness if the bike is carrying a load or if you are bumping down kerbs or tackling pot holes, but other than that most decent bikes will give years of good service

One of the most important factors is the geometry. If you don't get this right then you won't enjoy your ride regardless of how light, stiff or tough the bike is.

KulaBen

I have a spesh Sirrus and i'd recommend it. It's got rack mounts, clearance for mudgaurds and fatter tires if needed and it pretty quick to boot. It feels less 'planted' than my Allez at speed, but it's got a nice upright position and is comfortable for longer hauls. I bought it with exactly the same brief as you describe- commuting, day trips with a plan for a bit of light touring. Good bike. The 2010 models were better value, so if you can find one i'd go for it.

danbrum

walkingbootweather wrote:

One of the most important factors is the geometry. If you don't get this right then you won't enjoy your ride regardless of how light, stiff or tough the bike is.

So basically a road bike that I can fit racks, a light tourer, a cyclocross, it doesn't really matter they'll all be great as long as it's the right fit for me? Well I'm gonna head down Evan's cycles tomorrow and see what fits.

danbrum

mickmcg wrote:

I've just bought a Kona Dew Drop for £460 from Triton Cycles, they're out of stock but Chain Reaction have them for £465 here:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=64959

it's solely for commuting/child seat/family bike ride duties and it's a cracking bike - not amazing at anything but good at pretty much everything, took it off road last night and it was not far off my CX (but much, much better brakes!) and isnt too bad on the road and would be fine with slicks

decent enough spec (mine came with Avid BB7 discs rather than the Shimano on the spec sheet) and looks really good too - could be a bit lighter but feels like it'll take anyhting I throw at it

could be worth a look

That actually looks rather good, I haven't seen that brand around here though, they stock lots of specialized, trek and giant bikes, what's it similar to for sizing? Sorry for all the daft questions!

I really want to get this sorted soon, it's such a nice day today that I wanted to go on a long ride but I just don't trust my current bike to be up to it. Have to wait till I've sold some stuff and got next months paycheck :roll: Although I may end up having a bigger budget than expected after the grand national next weekend

danbrum

One more thing, any recommendations on Giant bikes? The LBS mainly stocks them and they said they do part exchange.