Nutrition for commuting

andy_brit

I commute a 35 mile round trip. What is the best pattern of nutrition for this?

I know breakfast is most important but is the one I have least time for as I need to be up and out. So a bowl of cereal before I go and a banana after the first 5 miles or so.

I have in the past tended to carbo-load at lunchtime - known as chips to you and me and then a Mars bar half way home to give me a boost for that last bit.

Towards the end of the afternoon, I drink strong tea to get some caffiene benefit (read it somewhere).

I do ok on this, but what should I be doing to get the best performance from my food?

Thanks for your thoughts and help

Headhuunter

35 mile round trip? So about 17.5 miles then work then another 17.5 miles? I would probably have a piece of toast or 2 or a bit of fruit before leaving and then have a couple more bits of toast when I arrived at work. What you describe sounds fine, you shouldn't eat too much before a ride anyway as you want the blood circulating to your muscles not trying to digest food...

No need to go overboard for a ride of that length, it's not the Tour de France! I would just eat normally through the day, sticking to healthy foodstuffs... I don;t think you need to "carbo load", eating crap like chips and Mars bars is simply likely to mean you gain weight despite your cycling. Cycling is not a license to lay into cakes, lard, steak and chips every day! Try to eat fruit and veg and decent quality meat....

pastryboy

There is no need to eat anything before you set off, I do my 14 miles in on an empty stomach and have done for a couple of years - I also go for 10+ miles runs on an empty stomach and it's fine.

Just eat good food throughout the day - your appetite will tell you how much to eat.

Caffeine is a stimulant - it will temporarily make you feel like you've got a bit of energy but as it has no calories it doesn't actually give you energy.

Drysuitdiver

When i am on days its cereal with raisins/sultanas for breakfast , salady stuff including some cheese and meat for lunch and then nothing until I get home.

on nights its all over the place but about as healthy .


when i did the 25mile commute across london on the way home i rediscovered my love for soreen maltloaf . I found some pre "buttered" in a pack in a little shop in Paddington and that staved off the bonk.

andy_brit

Hi guys

Thanks for the advice.

@headhunter: I am disappointed that I don't have a license to indiscriminately trough but I take the point

@drysuitdiver I love Soreen, my mother often has a pack in, not after I've visited however

Today was the first ride in of the season, yeah I know its not the TDF, thank god, bloody funnelled headwind down t'canal all the way GRRRR. Unless the weather is really vindictive I should have it my way going home. Damn that was hard work. Really lucky to have showers at work.

Quite pleased though, 84bpm pulse on arrival so not as lardy as I thought.

I have take all your advice and brought my butties instead of going down the canteen at lunch.

Thanks for all your help peeps.

Marcus_C

andy_brit wrote:

Today was the first ride in of the season, yeah I know its not the TDF, thank god, bloody funnelled headwind down t'canal all the way GRRRR. Unless the weather is really vindictive I should have it my way going home. Damn that was hard work. Really lucky to have showers at work.

I can sympathise with that, it was hard work this morning.

andy_brit

Cool, I got me a ticker too

project4cycling

I try to use my commuting as training - almost exactly the same round trip as andy_brit. I've found all kinds of ways to adapt my riding to make it work, but understanding nutrition has been a real problem. So, I recently interviewed a nutritionist specifically about nutrition for commuters. Thought it might interest this group: http://www.project4cycling.com/2012/05/ ... -leaf.html

She has really helped me to understand how to eat right before a ride and in the office.

Pessable

For my 60-75 minutes commute I don't eat anything before setting off in the morning, just have a double espresso which wakes me up and then drink plenty of water. I have seen this described as a "training bonk", that setting off for up to an hour without anything works as a fat-reducing aid. Apparently the caffeine stimulates the fat-to-carb conversion process and the lack of digestion fools the body into relying on fat as a fuel source as long as you're intensity isn't too high.

In any event, apparently the muscles and liver have plenty of carb reserves for an hour or so of fairly intense riding, so I prefer to have porridge with raisins (carbs, protein, low-fat) after my shower at work. I understand eating fairly quickly after exercise if important because there's a post-ride window in which carbs and protein are most easily absorbed. The other thing that's important is to replace electrolytes if you've been sweating, which is probably most easily done via sports drinks/supplements. When I've been riding more intensely (eg. singlespeeding) I've found this helps to reduce on- and off-bike cramps.

For lunch I stick to something which is fairly carb heavy, and try not to eat too late so that it has plenty of time to digest. My personal favourite lunch is tinned ravioli! Remember that for exercising, "feel fuller longer" foods (like chips and mars bars!) will take longer to digest (i.e. extract the energy and refill your reserves) as well as feeling leaden. And even "fat-burning" exercise needs carbs to operate ("fat burns in a carbohydrate flame").

And the other key thing to remember is not to think that all that cycling means you can eat as much as you like!

andy_brit

@Pessable I'm pretty much with you on your routine.

Small bowl of cereal on getting up just to stave off the hollowness. 75-90 min ride, cup of tea when I get to the office.
Lunch is a sandwich: Lean meat or cheese, salad and mayo, Orange and apple.
Tea will be the standard meat and two veg.
No snacks but plenty of drinks

I reckon to eat 1500 cals per day and according to one measure burn 3500, the deficit has got to come from fat - it does, did. Now 28lbs lighter Hurrah!

No ill effects, been on this regime for a year with a week or four off for Xmas!

godders1

My commute is around the same distance (34 miles), I try and take some carbs on board immediately after each journey (to restore glycogen levels). I find a big glass of chocolate milk is ideal.

There is a window of about and hour after exercise in which the body more readily takes on carbs and other nutrients and if you exploit this it aids recovery. Pretty important when we're doing regular rides day in day out.

I've definitely had less achy legs towards the end of the week since I've been doing this.

Initialised

project4cycling wrote:

I try to use my commuting as training - almost exactly the same round trip as andy_brit. I've found all kinds of ways to adapt my riding to make it work, but understanding nutrition has been a real problem. So, I recently interviewed a nutritionist specifically about nutrition for commuters. Thought it might interest this group: http://www.project4cycling.com/2012/05/ ... -leaf.html

She has really helped me to understand how to eat right before a ride and in the office.

Thanks for that, it's close to what I do (when I'm being good).

corshamjim

Regarding the poll question, I answered 'No' simply because I don't think I can commute any more by bike than I am doing already! I think I've only accepted a lift or driven myself to work maybe three or four times in the last year, and I have even cycled to meetings further afield on occasion.

wyadvd

FYI as a rough rule of thumb, it takes 50 calories of food to ride 1 mile once you are fairly fit. 50 calories , assuming you eat for around £100 per week (including eating out etc) and purchase around 14000 calories per week works out at 36p per mile in food costs to run a bike. A car uses (at 30 miles per gallon or 6.7 miles per litre to mix units) costs 22p per mile in fuel to run. add to this the depreciation of an average car and other running costs, (and the fact that most cyclists spend about £500 a month at wiggle) and cycling looks about even stevens.

can any mathematically competent people pick holes in my working?

Yacoby

can any mathematically competent people pick holes in my working?

Yes, your numbers appear to be made up rather than drawn from a well chosen sample. Hence it isn't really valid. You don't ask how much of that cost in food increases due to cycling. If you are spending that much on food, removing cycling isn't going to dent it that much. etc etc etc.

godders1

wyadvd wrote:

FYI as a rough rule of thumb, it takes 50 calories of food to ride 1 mile once you are fairly fit. 50 calories , assuming you eat for around £100 per week (including eating out etc) and purchase around 14000 calories per week works out at 36p per mile in food costs to run a bike. A car uses (at 30 miles per gallon or 6.7 miles per litre to mix units) costs 22p per mile in fuel to run. add to this the depreciation of an average car and other running costs, (and the fact that most cyclists spend about £500 a month at wiggle) and cycling looks about even stevens.

can any mathematically competent people pick holes in my working?

It doesn't take mathematical competence to know that people who don't cycle to work eat too. The body requires calories just to function, even if you sit on your behind all day and don't do any exercise. So the vast majority of your "cycle commuting running costs" would apply to everyone (even those who drive to work).

I cycle 160 miles per week so according to your maths I would be spending £57.60 a week on food purely as fuel for my commute. The fact is that I don't eat a great deal more than when I wasn't commuting by bike every day. The only real extra is a pint of chocolate milk a day which costs me about £2.50 a week.

wyadvd

So any better estimates of the marginal costs per calorie of food for use as fuel while cycling? I know I eat significantly MORE food since starting to commute by bike. For me, most of this is from extra chips with lunch at my work canteen. If I don't eat at least 4000 calories a day , I loose weight, being a skeletal 70 kilos as it is. Body fat is worth 7000 kc per kilo, so a very effective buffer even in skinny people. I do not feel that is unreasonable to average out the cost of one calorie over a weeks eating. I think marginal cost over and above base metabolic rate may come up with a larger figure.

How much does your total personal food bill cost? How many calories do you ingest per week ( honestly!)
Until we have some accurate figures, we cannot caste our votes in the poll.

I take it no one thinks 22p per mile is unreasonable for petrol costs?
FYI I have not plucked any figures out of mid air! 50 cals per mile is a well accepted energy useable for cycling. Whether this is marginal usage over and above BMR is not clear, although I thinks it is, because it agrees broadly with garmin , strava and endo, all of which read zero while I am stationary. I certainly spend around 100 a week on food products in total. My energy total may be smaller than reality....probably more like 20000, bringing food costs per mile cost to 25p!

corshamjim

If the car does about 50mpg, which is probably what our Toyota Aygo does, then the figure would be more like 13p per mile for petrol now.

wyadvd

True, my diesel does 40mpg, but is it the best figure to use for a global comparison? Most cars do around 30 mpg, and I can claim 22p from the nhs for miles.

Perhaps our figures should be expressed as a range?


Personally I think to some cyclists it is heresy to even suggest that the fuel costs of a bicycle are even in the same ball park as a car!!
But they are I'm afraid!

Something else that occurred to me, when you commute 150+ miles per week, you need a high quality, expensive diet!

godders1

It is an interesting question, you'd just need to take into account lots of different variables to come up with anything accurate and worthwhile.

We cycle a similar distance yet you say you to eat quite a bit more than you did before whereas I don't. I would guess that's because I probably ate too much before and was sightly overweight (and am now simply using those excess calories) whereas you're slim and I would guess probably ate sensibly before (and so now you need the extra calories).

Like I said, lots of different variables.

wyadvd

quite right, I was 75kilos three years ago when I started cycling and didnt eat alot (but used to do a very physically active job (horticulture) before my current job (radiography). Am now 70 kilos and have a constant raging knawing hunger, and struggle to keep the pound on, and look like a belson victim. (with a few muscles on my legs)

I am currently establishing whether ther Garmin does include BMR in its energy estimate, in any case it wouldnt make a hell of a lot of difference (100kc per hr max)

lets get the figures correct then and referenced:

according to this document: http://www.defra.gov.uk/statistics/file ... l-2002.pdf

the average energy consumption in the UK is 2089 from household sources. Other documents I have read put eating out on average at around 220kcals so we could take 2289 as the average energy consumption (no alcohol!)=16023 kcal per week.

this document: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/family-sp ... 11-pdf.pdf

puts the average household weekly spending on food (including eating out) at £84 per household, with an everage 2.4 persons per household. so therefore per person this is £35.

therefore cost per calorie for the average diet in the UK is: 35/16023=£0.0022

multipling this average cost per kcal by the number of calories required to cycle 1 mile we get: 50x0.0022=£0.11 per mile.

However, most of us are "athletes" and so eat a much higher quality and more expensive diet than the average, but never mind that! (as I said I spend getting on for £100 A WEEK just on myself for around 4000 calories per day making it 17p per mile)

cycle=11p per mile (17p per mile for me!)
car=22p per mile (at 30 mpg @£1.50/ litre)

Fuel cost that is.( add in wiggle spend and it all goes a bit bonkers)

wyadvd

interesting stop press:

courier cyclists in the states are trying to get the extra food they require to do their job as a tax deductible expense!:

http://www.bikesatwork.com/cycling-for- ... -fuel.html

wyadvd

and check this out:

(from 1998 mind)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_lwQMbfBYc

CiB

Interesting...

I happen to know that my car (biggish diesel) returns about 5-6 miles per pound, which is close enough to 22p per mile.

Food. Cycling is routine in my world; the 20+ mile commute is just a bike ride so I don't eat any more than I do when I go in the car, except maybe for a packet of chocolate biscuits from the Lidl up the road as a standby that'll last the week. That's 59p extra for 82 miles commuting per week so by my maths that's about 3/4 of a penny per mile, so nothing. Yesterday's ~50 miler used an additional chocolate biscuit and a single finger Twix bar from a multipack, and one drinks bottle of dilute squash.

Normal diet is a couple of Weetabix for breakfast with milk & sugar, couple of sandwiches fruit & yoghurt through the day and a dinner in the evening.

So on a statistically insignificant sample cycling anything up to 50 miles is free.

wyadvd

As a regular cyclist, do you know your total calorific intake on average per day?

Do you know your base metabolic rate? You need to subtract one from the other. And multiply by 0.0022 gbp to get the cost of your activity calories .
That may overestimate a little since you don't have a totally sedentary job.
I think we have to accept a few basic premises:

That a good estimate of energy useage for energetic cycling in excess of BMR is 50kcals?
That an average diet contains around 2200 kcals and costs £5 per day? If you accept those, then what you have said makes no sense, where does your energy come from , fresh air? Lol

macleod113

Like some posters state i also cycle on an empty stomach. i normally commute 7.5 miles each way but i have also cycled 82 miles to Skegness without breakfast.
i find food repeats if i eat before exercise, especially in the gym.
I just have squash in my bottles and that seems to do and for the longer rides maybe a flapjack or three....

wyadvd

But the human body does not just burn what you eat immediately before during or after a bike ride for that particular ride. It uses glycogen and fat to even out energy requirements over a number of weeks at least. You have to look at your average daily nutrient intake over a long period (during which you cycle) to establish your energy useage due to cycling. I lose weight if I eat less that around 4000 kcals per day when I am cycling 150 miles per week.

My BMR is around 2000, so 1000 for work and 1000 for cycling per day (roughly )

andyrr

Well, I voted against the original topic since, as a very regular cycle-commuter I quite possibly won;t increase the number of bike commutes against car commutes but I have made a concious decision to do this and, as I'm not currently racing, I don't mind the general fatigued feeling that I tend to get when I biek in for more than 3 out of 5 days and the money saving (is there any) should help a teensy bit)
Wife and I have now gone from a car each to just 1 car so ther may be a few occasions where I feel like I can't be bothered with the 35 mile round trip (like the OP) but just have to MTFU. Getting my ass out of bed at 6:20am on a cold, wet and wind morning isn't what I want to do but once on the road it's not too bad.

Nutrition - nothing at all before I leave, I used to waste time with sitting down and watching breakfast TV whilst eating some cereal and drinking juice but now the least time I can spend between bed and work the better so I have my breakfast at work (milk paid for by the company) and that in itself is something I look forward to.