Fuel Poverty

calonuk

Thank you all for your varied opinons and the information and links that have been provided, let me set the scene better...

Every sunday me daughter goes to dance right next to my work so i drop in my work clothes for the week.

As i said thebike i have borrowed is slightly to small on the frame but I am coping it is a specialized hybrid.
when the CTW scheme kicks in i will paying around £25 a month net for the bike but saving on average £20 a week in fuel. I currently do as much of the servicing

I will be riding a cube hyde comp
have lights and helmet included in CTW

i feel at the moment the 35min into work is a quick as i can physically do and its an all road ride. I enjoy the work out and do not mind sweating i was when i get into work i can wash in the toilet and freshen up(albeit being overweight and generally unfit does mean i am sweating more than i will do after a few more months )

the roads i cycle are busy two lane roads.

At the moment my rear is coping fine with the cycling but i hope to start casual cycling on weekends once the weather gets better and i get more acustomed to cycling.

really appreciate the footwear advice as my trainers are drenched and are not going to be dry going home today

Fireblade96

Refer to the great Yehuda Moon !

shouldbeinbed

+1 for aldi & lidl. I have a few Aldi softshells (£14 and have lasted me very well) they are warm enough for this time of year riding at 6-7am, very showerproof without being boil in the bag sweaty and you can zip them down if it gets too hot on your ride home. (assuming yr a bloke or a lady with an exhibitionist streak).

they tend not to stick to you the same as a normal t-shirt does and do offer a bit more weatherproofing and skin protection if you hit the deck.

I live north of Manchester and can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of times I've been rained on at all this year and can't remember the last time I got absolutely soaked. It really is far rarer than you'd think, I don't take too many precautions against the wet. only a tiny packaway rain mac (Aldi £6) but decathlon etc do similar things for ~£10. they are boil in the bag tho, its up to you whether you fancy being rain wet or sweat clammy. I go for the rain every time.

I get padded shorts form Aldi or decathlon (£5 or so) and use 3/4 decathlon running shorts (£10) over them purely not to look like a fat bloke in lycra. This combo is 1/4 the cost of my 1 pair of endura humvee bike specific stuff and is far more comfy. In winter a pair of lycra longs (mine £23 decathlon ones) but walking trousers, jeans or tracky bottoms work nearly as well

Lycra wins because it is way better at repelling/wicking wet and it dries far quicker than conventional trousers over the office radiator.

in a few weeks time I'll be cycling full time in my Hi Viz polo shirts (£5 from your local Alexandra / workwear type shop or £10 from B&Q).

I do treat myself to cycle specific shoes (mountain bike style usually - my faves are Specialized Sonoma ~£50-60, longlasting and pretty comfortable and anonymous off the bike) I would recommend them as a good investment to you, they have a harder sole which makes cycling much more comfortable than soft soled trainers, give slightly better rain protection and are more efficient to pedal in. plus you can upgrade to a pair of clip-in pedals (£20 and upwards to silly money) when the bug really bites.

You can get thin long sleeved tops from Primark for £5 that act as a warm baselayer and arm covers if its a bit chilly, I use a couple layered up under a softshell/windproof jacket for really cold midwinter days and have got into work with the thermometer on -15 last winter like this.

For winter riding a pair of ski gloves are just as warm and waterprof as cycling gloves often at a fraction of the cost and summer fingerless mitts are dirt cheap to pick up.

I've got a couple of weeks worth of kit for no more than £100 + shoes and am sorted for whatever the weather can throw at me.

dhope

ndru wrote:

I wasn't referring to the slow bicycle movement. There is a difference between pushing yourself to the max, a reasonable pace and pootling around enjoying the nature. Each of these paces have their uses. I am only saying that pushing yourself to the max is not necessary unless you're racing.

If I was pushing myself to the max I'd probably end up causing a crash on a commute through SE London as I'd need to ride incredibly aggressively. That said, I still gravitate toward 20mph on the commute which doesn't leave me dripping with sweat but, on anything but a cold day, does leave me feeling like I've done a bit of exercise by the time I arrive at work. I have a gym opposite so I can grab a shower after a cycle in which is handy. 25mins at a respectable pace doesn't mark me out as a Lance wannabe but I'll still wear cycle specific clothing because I'm ... ... ... cycling.
I also wear trainers when I run or jog, and trunks when I swim.

If I head to the shops on the bike then no, I'll not change, but a commute to work is regular enough to do some preparation.

The Rookie

I coummute 6.6 miles, I do that in around 20-22 minutes (25 when recovering from a cold) to go slow enough to work in the same clothes I ride in would take me longer than riding faster and changing.

I don't wear Lycra though. just cotton shorts and a sports top and a soft shell when its cold. Total cost of riding gear in summer is £17 plus helmet, I have two lots, winter its about double (soft shell from Aldi and longer fingered gloves which are more expensive).

Simon

gtvlusso

ndru wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

A car is as expensive as you make it;
However, once you get the bike bug, you need upgrades, bike wieght becomes a factor - more upgrades, carbon frames..... The right kit, then Rapha kit......and so on.....

I have spent far more on my bike in the last 2 years than I have running a Mercedes ML...(less fuel) doing my own servicing; aside gearbox oil and rear shock change - where specialist kit is needed.

Not very clever then mate... I don't think you need carbon and rapha kit unless you are professionaly racing. All that stuff just makes you look somewhat silly. I mean if you have loads of money and like to spend it that way - then sure go ahead - however what point can you see in giving this kind of advice to someone who simply wants to cycle to work. Unless this piece was tongue in cheek it really think you have all the gear, but still no idea.

LOL - Yes, I do have allot of racing/commuting experience, something like 20 years, and considerably more idea than most.....

The point is that you can get addicted to cycling and start "needing" new things without any justification!

A nice shiny carbon seatpost, take the vibration out of the road and save weight.....it is all just goodies - shiny thing make it all better.....I would love to own another Carbon framed race bike, get back to some racing - but kids have halted that!

Personally, I have 2 early 80's road bikes (one fixed) with some minor upgrades to make them more useable on the daily drag (ultegra groupset and shiny new wheels) - but I still think I need a straight leg fork, dura-ace groupset and all manor of stuff that I really don't need. My kit is mostly DHB, from Wiggle. I am not wealthy enough for Rapha, but if I had the cash, then I probably would buy a few bits.

Ultimately, because I spend so little on the car (it has a 17,000 mile service interval and we do about 8000 miles a year) anything I spend on bicycle kit (tyres, tubes, worn out parts or a shiny new pair of bib tights) takes me over the car/bike cash threshold - even though I buy very little. But I will freeley admit to being a weight weenie and upgrade addict in my past!

Hence I can afford to run a massive car......that I never drive, because my wife drives it everywhere. And I think if you can help yourself to save a bit of cash, then do it - times are tight and I would happily hand over said motor to the dealer, if I was flush with cash, but I am not!!! So, I do as much as I can myself! I even fix our washing machine - loads of stuff on internet about it!


"I don't think you need carbon and rapha kit unless you are professionaly racing. All that stuff just makes you look somewhat silly"

Can you explain why people should not commute on a shiny carbon bike in Rapha kit? Why is it silly?

I don't own any of it, but I would like to know why you think it is silly to have the stuff you want and to use it how you want to use it?

UndercoverElephant

I think it's horses for courses. If I was to cycle my 12.5 mile commute at ndru's pace, it would take me easily over an hour each way. One of the reasons I go by bike is that I can manage to cycle in about the same time the same journey would take me by car, usually less than 40 minutes each way. Sure I need a five minute shower and get changed at the end, but essentially my exercise is time-free, which is important to me so that I can spend time with my family.

More to the point, I enjoy my commute as much as I'm sure ndru does, perhaps I don't get to count the blades of grass as I go by, but I'm certainly a lot closer to the world than I would be in the car.

If you want to go slowly, that's fine, don't kid yourself that you're having the same exercise as you would do if you did the same journey quicker, though.

OP, I know you never meant to start an argument. Simple answer, if you plan on getting sweaty, buy some cycling clothes.

EKE_38BPM

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Simple answer, if you plan on getting sweaty, buy some cycling clothes.

+1
Paraphrasing what Dhope said, trainers for running, trunks for swimming, lycra for riding.
Cycling at or near the speed of the traffic around you is safer. Slow cycling may not make you sweaty, but I'd rather be a little sweaty and travelling at the same speed of the traffic around me.

gtvlusso

EKE_38BPM wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Simple answer, if you plan on getting sweaty, buy some cycling clothes.

+1
Paraphrasing what Dhope said, trainers for running, trunks for swimming, lycra for riding.
Cycling at or near the speed of the traffic around you is safer. Slow cycling may not make you sweaty, but I'd rather be a little sweaty and travelling at the same speed of the traffic around me.

+1

CiB

Back to the original point - money saving. You won't save that much, unless you're properly organised at least.

I had a spreadsheet just for fun that tracked daily fuel cost (up from about £5.60 in Jan to around £6.10 now), spending that has arisen only as a result of owning a bike, and the number of days that I've actually cycled in. It's been binned now as it was dispiriting to see how the numbers were stacking up.

Spending covers things like that extra cake at lunchtime, having to buy lunch as I didn't bother to carry any in, a tin of oil, shorts that I found in the Jan sales, a Torx drive to get the chain rings off etc. Anything that reasonably wouldn't be needed if not for the bike is a cost.

Upshot is that in 13 commutes this year (can only do 2 per week at best anyway at the mo), I'm £13.14 up on savings over cost. One measly pound per day's commute (21m each way). Over the year the savings will increase but then I'll need a new tyre, or a chain etc, and that's all the savings down the pan.

Don't view cycling as a cost-saving exercise. It isn't unless you force yourself to do it all at basement level costs, and then it's not so much fun. Do it for the enjoyment, the fitness and your own pleasure.

DonDaddyD

Depending on the weather I might sweat any irrespective of riding slow.

Sometimes my sweating isn't dependant on the weather or how fast or slow I cycle I sweat anyway.

To feel comfortable and cool I wear the lycra.

Also doesn't sweat have bacteria in it, which can be harmful - block pours ect? Isn't there a hygiene (however, how minor) benefit from wearing lycra? It and the comfort element is why I wear padded cycle shorts - my thighs used to rub raw.

Also, cotton holds onto water/sweat. It doesn't evaporate and the material doesn't dry quickly - you'll notice that cotton is often the last laundry item to fully dry. This liquid becomes cold making you cold and arguably uncomfortable.

Lycra has been around for decades I'm not going to question its benefits now. It has practical uses beyond sport and has been a feature in the everyday clothing market for decades.

rjsterry

No, your skin has lots of bacteria living on it (perfectly normal). It's a combination of skin becoming abraded/damaged because it's wet (sweat not allowed to evaporate), and then surface bacteria getting in under the skin surface where they can cause problems.

DonDaddyD

Inexpensive clothing:

I buy this stuff: http://www.cycle-clothing.co.uk/Ranges/ ... horts.aspx

And

DHB: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?s=DHB

As I said ealier the Cycle-Clothing stuff isn't the best but it is exceptional quality for the price. I live by the stuff.

I have sunglasses, jerseys, shorts, winter tights and 2-3 jackets from them. I'm happy with the lot.

DHB for full length tights and 3/4 length shorts.

If you do happen to by cycle shoes, they can be found cheaply enough in sales. I like Shimano cycling shoes - decent quality at the price I'd pay for ordinary shoes.

I don't skip on gloves because I'm prone to hand cramps, so I buy Specialized mits and Gore Gloves

Accessories don't need to be expensive, shop around, set yourself a budget and keep within it.

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

No, your skin has lots of bacteria living on it (perfectly normal). It's a combination of skin becoming abraded/damaged because it's wet (sweat not allowed to evaporate), and then surface bacteria getting in under the skin surface where they can cause problems.

Ah OK, I moisturise (baby oil) and I'm in two minds as to whether or not I sweat more or less without it.

What I have noticed though, is that there were areas of my arms that had become dry and wrinkly (well wrinkly for me) looking when I didn't moisturise.

Also, now that the sun is out I've taken to hair removal around the pits and other place again. I've noticed that:

1). The freshness is more comfortable....

2). I don't sweat as much and I cool down quicker. (I also don't smell as fragrant, which upsets the GF)

I think I found out why racers shave their legs (we don't know how far up...) I also think we didn't just evolve to loose our hair because of clothing... hair removal, its the future!

rhext

I don't cycle to save money, as such. But because I keep track of what I spend, I can tell you that I spent about £500 on cycling last year, covering about 4,000 miles that I'd otherwise have had to use a car for. Of that £500, about half was on what I'd consider to be 'essentials': maintenance spares, tyres, clothing etc, and the rest was 'optional': largely associated with leisure use of my mountain bike.

Conservatively, I reckon that my motoring cost per mile is about 20p (ignoring the big-ticket 'fixed' costs like insurance, depreciation etc). So last year I saved about £550 after maintenance. I run a reasonably good bike (Specialized Tricross), and I buy reasonably good quality spares to keep it running. And for those of you about to jump in and yell 'but what about the cost of the bike', it's several years old and has paid for itself at least twice over already!

Two things I disagree with in this thread:

1) 'You can't save money by commuting on your bike'. This is absolute rubbish. You can save a lot of money, as long as you're prepared to learn a little DIY maintenance, and you choose not to be seduced by the bright shiny stuff in the magazines. If you cycle to work on the bicycle equivalent of a VW Golf, you'll save loads of cash. But if you want to cycle to work on the bicycle equivalent of a Formula 1 racing car, or you decide to equip your Golf with Formula 1 spares, then you'll have to spend a bit more. "Hold the front page! "

2) "It's not worth investing in cycle-specific gear". Yes, you can do short commutes relatively comfortably in 'ordinary' clothes. But they'll get dirty quickly, they'll wear out quickly, and they'll only be comfortable for as long as your ride is low-intensity and dry. You see cyclists in lycra for a reason. By all means give it a try in your ordinary clothes, but if you find you like it, or if you're finding yourself put off by the discomfort, then I'd strongly recommend you at least try some cycling gear. It doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't even have to be lycra (mountain bikers don't really like that either), but it can make a huge difference to your comfort without breaking the bank.

The Rookie

I keep track of all my spend on bike parts (but not clothes or tools) and after circa 1500miles commuting I'm up £10, although of course now the bike build cost is paid back that will accelerate, however I'm stronger, fitter and lighter than I would have been and it costs less in terms of time (20 mins extra per day wouldn't drive me to the Gym and back twice a week) and money than going to even the cheapest (local council) Gym.

Simon

Drysuitdiver

didn't restart cycling due to anything other than time . the time door to desk using pubic (sic) transport was horrendous. cycling I can do it in 20- 30 minutes.

saved money - no as work covered the fares , i do however claim the 20p permile from HMRC fior my commuting miles.

also working nights would mean a long walk home or a long long wait for the fright bus.


as for "proper" cycling clothing , well you can spend a fortune on specific stuff or not . I do a lot of outdoor pursuits so have wicking base layers , fleece layers wind/waterproof layers. it just took a few days to sort out what i could wear. now that spring is here i will be getting some zip off waking trousers so i can ride into work with shorts as its warm in the afternoon and long trousers for the ride home when its a bit nippy in the air at 3 to 4 am.

in the winter i wore a lined walking trouser from Craghopper to keep legs warm . all stuff I had or can be obtained fairly cheaply from outdoor shops.

I will be looking at some proper cycling shorts later this year as I am getting out on the roadbike a bit more at weekends. 50 miles in walking trousers in the saddle isn't brilliant

jonginge

Drysuitdiver wrote:

didn't restart cycling due to anything other than time . the time door to desk using pubic (sic) transport was horrendous. cycling I can do it in 20- 30 minutes.

saved money - no as work covered the fares , i do however claim the 20p permile from HMRC fior my commuting miles.

also working nights would mean a long walk home or a long long wait for the fright bus.


as for "proper" cycling clothing , well you can spend a fortune on specific stuff or not . I do a lot of outdoor pursuits so have wicking base layers , fleece layers wind/waterproof layers. it just took a few days to sort out what i could wear. now that spring is here i will be getting some zip off waking trousers so i can ride into work with shorts as its warm in the afternoon and long trousers for the ride home when its a bit nippy in the air at 3 to 4 am.

in the winter i wore a lined walking trouser from Craghopper to keep legs warm . all stuff I had or can be obtained fairly cheaply from outdoor shops.

I will be looking at some proper cycling shorts later this year as I am getting out on the roadbike a bit more at weekends. 50 miles in walking trousers in the saddle isn't brilliant

Surely you mean cycling miles on company business

MaxwellBygraves

I cycle to work because I can't drive, not because I can't afford it!

pastryboy

Baggy shorts + cheap running jersey (not cotton) does the job for me and I'm commuting further than most on here. I just wouldn't wear lycra for commuting as I'd feel like a nob.

Don't even bother with trying to stay dry in the rain - just buy even more cheap gear and keep spares at work. Waterproof shorts are worth having though as a wet arse is not much fun..

Marcus_C

My car is in bits in the garage and has been like that pretty much since I bought it 18 months ago so driving to work isn't an option, it does save money (I keep telling myself anyway).

tailwindhome

ndru wrote:

Sorry for flooding.
To the OP - I do 8 miles there and 8 miles back every day on a heavy yet comfortable and bombproof pashley. I wear my normal clothes and hardly sweat. If you think about it there is little difference if you exercise moderately for 45 minutes or hard for 20. The calorie loss is more or less the same. What you get in return is the bicycle becomes not a form of training, but normal transport, which you then start using for shopping, errands etc - and it's easy because you don't have to do the superman thing (phone booth, ripping shirt on the chest) every time you want to use it. Wouldn't you be reluctant to use a car if every time you had to don a flameproof suit special boots and what have you? Keep it simple and make it normal - you will also get more respect from other road users. It's not worth it for your 11km commute.
Oh and don't worry about not being fast - it's really not a race and what you save in time on your commute you will then loose under the shower.

You make a lot of sense there.

Sometimes people forget cycling to work is just that, it doesn't need to be complicated, you don't need an expensive bike, just one that's in reasonable shape.

You don't need special clothing, so long as your 'office' dress code is reasonably casual you'll be fine. However nothing looks as stupid as a grown man riding a bicycle while wearing a suit.

Two other points

1 Is a Pashley not a very expensive bike just for riding to work?
2 Are you not going have a shower anyway?

SmellTheGlove

If you own a car but also commute, even five days a week, I don't reckon you'll notice a huge difference in your running cost total for both modes. If you ditch the car altogether (have personally done this recently) that's a different matter, and something not everyone can do of course.

Padded shorts - God's gift to cyclists. If you want the great smell of diesel all day then ride in your work clothes and treat your colleagues; even if you don't sweat personally, proximity to traffic makes you whiffy, sort of like a heavy smoker with benzine undertones. Otherwise for a modest outlay you can get some clobber that's designed for the job and will last. As for the bikes themselves well, you'll inevitably end up with a selection but I find that ultra-reliable, while dull, is important for commuting. Fitting good tyres and keeping them up to pressure, checking over brakes and steering and regular lubrication are not difficult or expensive DIY jobs.

Drysuitdiver

JonGinge wrote:

Drysuitdiver wrote:

didn't restart cycling due to anything other than time . the time door to desk using pubic (sic) transport was horrendous. cycling I can do it in 20- 30 minutes.

saved money - no as work covered the fares , i do however claim the 20p permile from HMRC fior my commuting miles.

also working nights would mean a long walk home or a long long wait for the fright bus.


as for "proper" cycling clothing , well you can spend a fortune on specific stuff or not . I do a lot of outdoor pursuits so have wicking base layers , fleece layers wind/waterproof layers. it just took a few days to sort out what i could wear. now that spring is here i will be getting some zip off waking trousers so i can ride into work with shorts as its warm in the afternoon and long trousers for the ride home when its a bit nippy in the air at 3 to 4 am.

in the winter i wore a lined walking trouser from Craghopper to keep legs warm . all stuff I had or can be obtained fairly cheaply from outdoor shops.

I will be looking at some proper cycling shorts later this year as I am getting out on the roadbike a bit more at weekends. 50 miles in walking trousers in the saddle isn't brilliant

Surely you mean cycling miles on company business

nope they are commuting miles as my fixed place of work is the head office in Woking. therefore travel to site iin the morning is commuting but still business miles . if i am on the same site for more than 2 years it becomes fixed place of work and i can't claim . thats never happened yet though.

P87d and its guide sheet are 2 great bits of paperwork

daviesee

As we are off topic diver, I assume you are self employed?

In which case you can also, buy a company bike (instead of 20p/mile and doesn't run out after 24 months), provide a breakfast for all employees cycling to work (under a tenner, no reciept required ) and provide all safety gear for people using the company bike - reflective jackets, safety glasses, helmets, lights etc, etc.

Just saying 8)

pst88

I didn't start cycling to save money on petrol but it definitely keeps me motivated. I used to ride in to work everyday regardless until I got a car. After that I got a bit slack and drove a few days a week whenever I felt like it. With the rising fuel prices I was probably spending about £30 a week. Now I ride everyday and only use the car on weekends so that amount will probably last a few weeks now. Haven't spent any more on cycling because I had all the stuff already. I bought my commuting clothes 3 years ago and they're still going strong. Things on the bike may wear out quicker but if i'm saving £50-100 a month on petrol I think it's worth it.

georgee

No but it is very economical to,

Petrol for my round trip would cost £7.22 perday, add congestion charge and do that 226 days a year = £3,892.42, then add £3k for a parking space (the going rate in central london)

conversley, a season ticket for the train is £2,016 pa

As for cycling, the cost is difficult to account for, I ride socially and racce so I would still spend on bikes maintenance and clothing but only at around £200 a year and I never pay for servicing, plus then I still get the train on odd days, say 45 days a year on average so that's near £700 pa. but I don't have a gym membership as I cycle, so that's £500 pa benefit. so cycling =cheaper.

What really gives me pleasure in cycling is knowing i'm not giving any cash to Bob Crow and his mates.

jefflad

I chose to cycle to get fit and loose weight, but has now been taken over by people who are doing it to save money and as such I can’t believe the number of cyclists I see on a morning these days… think I should open a LBS!

Items I’d recommend getting; obviously some can wait till next winter but all form my essential kit (clothes and misc)

Helmet
Lycra padded shorts that can go under baggies
SPD shoes
Warm socks (merino wool)
Winter gloves / padded palm gloves
Hi-viz jacket
Non cotton T-shirt
Glasses

Off Topic - misc

Decent lights
Bike pump
SPD Pedals
Inner tube
Tyre levers
Multi-tool
Pump

And the drive and enthusiasm to get up and go early in the morning when it’s cold and/or wet 

All the above can be inexpensive or as expensive as you like but I suppose your commute may be slightly shorter than mine (22 miles round trip) but you will benefit for the correct kit. Good luck in what you choose to do.

J

The Rookie

Buying an expensive bike is nice but means you have to cycle a lot further to recoup the cost, although if you lose a car from teh household that will come quickly enough.

Part of the reason I built a dedicated commuter is that I could get a much better bike for the purpose for the money than buying new, mine has cost me £354 (so far anyway) for a bike that had I bought a similar spec' new would have been about £700, you can't do that quickly, but by judicious buying a big saving can be made.

Simon

Achamore

Commuting to work cost me a fortune!

I lost so much weight that I had to buy new clothes due to all the amount I lost and improved body tone from a 35 mile round trip commute.

I agree that the main benefit is the overall fitness both physical and mental.

Acha