checking Shimano hubs

t0pc4t

I've heard that you don't want to let Shimano hibs wear too much as it means they get totally broke rather than just needing new bearings.

How would one check to see whether the hubs needed to be serviced? Or is it just a time interval thing?

cooldad

If the bearing races wear the hubs are shot. Take apart and clean out and regrease regularly (when depends on how much and in what conditions you ride) and they'll last for years or decades.
Easy job just takes a few minutes.
All you need are some cone spanners.

t0pc4t

so it's a case of getting them apart and inspecting the races?

thanks CD!

cooldad

Yes, Parktools is useful, but basically remove locknuts and cones, take out ball bearings (try not to let them fall inside the hub, bugger to get out) clean balls and races, and grease and put back together, just tight enough so roll freely with no sideways movement.

konadawg

Some facts:

The quickest way to destroy these hubs is by overtightening the cones. There MUST be some freeplay in the shaft when the wheel is out of the frame. When you apply the QR, the shaft bends fractionally and takes up the slack, no slack and it's all pressure on the bearings. A teeny weeny bit of play at the wheel rim when in the frame is not such a bad thing either, especially as the hubs age. Warning - the correct adjustment is tricky, so be prepared.

The cones fail first (apart from the balls). They are, theoretically, available as spares. Read into that what you wish. Generic cones work, buy a new shaft and take them off, but you generally lose the sealing (if one accepts that there was any "sealing" to lose in the first place!)

Replace the balls every time you are in there. Cheap, and there is only one aceptable standard for a serviceable ball - perfect.

The races are removable, (with difficulty) but not available as spares AFAIK. An option to consider before scrapping any hubs, if any race is still OK, you could try to salvage it. I never managed.

However, if you set up everything a bit more loosely, it is surprising how much life you could get out of a "bad" hub. TBH there must be zillions of riders with hubs that are technically kaput, that probably don't even know it. Just accept that every 6 months or so, the balls will need replacing.

t0pc4t

ta!

delta5

konadawg wrote:

The races are removable, (with difficulty) but not available as spares AFAIK. An option to consider before scrapping any hubs, if any race is still OK, you could try to salvage it. I never managed.

The races look like they are integral to the hub body - just out of curiosity, how would you remove them?

t0pc4t - It's conditions and mileage (more mud = less mileage). I've just replaced the ball bearings and cones in both front and rear Shimano M475s after about 1000 miles. Most of my riding is 'dry', and I suspect they were nailed by a few very muddy rides late last year. The races were all okay but balls were worn and one front cone was pitted.
As for getting spares, balls ok but much searching turned up nothing else, so eventually I bought complete new hubs from CRC and cannibalised them for new axles, cones, balls and freehub. The complete rear hub was cheaper than just a new freehub.

(OT, I know but . . ) also check your headset bearings - the lower particularly. After same mileage found mine full of 'orrible stuff and the balls rusted to shoot, but luckily the races were ok.

TuckerUK

konadawg has it spot on.

I might just add to make sure you buy decent ball bearings, Grade 100, (Grade 50 or better for XT/XTR?) not some iffy oval ones. Both simplybearings.co.uk and sjscycles.co.uk do bearings online at decent prices.

Tip: Loctite the drive side cone and locknut onto the axle (leaving the correct axle protrusion) and only ever adjust the non-drive side. Do this both front and rear for consistency. Reason? The rear drive side cone and locknut have a habit of coming loose destroying all your good work.

konadawg

Delta5 wrote:

The races look like they are integral to the hub body - just out of curiosity, how would you remove them?

As previous I did not manage, but likely for want of an appropriate tool. It's been a while since I serviced a Shimano hub but IIRC the races are threaded in, in fact the race has two notches opposite each other presumably for the use of a large, ahemm, "screwdriver" - term used simply for the sake of understanding.

Likely they may be bonded in, I never had an appropriate tool so never managed, but now it's all flooding back (oh dear!) I think that this tool can be purchased, looks nothing like a screwdriver of course but the application is similar.

konadawg

Yoo-hoo, the tool:

http://www.euroasiaimports.net/productc ... egory=1747

delta5

Thanks KD - I think that tool must be for the higher-end Shimano hubs? The cheapo M475 def don't have any notches and the races look very well fixed in place (like if you even got them out undamaged, you'd never get them back in straight!) so the races are probably not replaceable. Makes sense - given they are relatively cheap it would hardly be worth the time & effort.

nicklouse

Delta5
that is for the freehub but no one bothers change the races on them no.

just use the body that came on the hub you got for spares.

t0pc4t

sorry, another stupid question, is there any way to find out what size of bearing I need before I get the cone spanners and open it all up?

are most of them 3/16?

Also, are Formula hubs the same or sealed? I only just realised that on my anthem the rear is a Formula.

Sorry for so many dumb questions here, have never touched hubs before.

nicklouse

see Sheldon. they are different front and rear. in size and quantity.

Check Shimanos tech doc as some hubs do use different balls and sizes.

Formula hubs Yes to both.

cooldad

Rear are 1/4", front are 3/16".

cooldad

Unless as Nick said they are different. Most commonly what I said.
Unless they are 'clicky' I just reuse the same balls.

t0pc4t

so formula are also cup and cone, but sealed?

nicklouse

well cup and cone are normally sealed.

what i mean is they cane be C&C and cartridge.

it depends on the hub.

Shimano are the only makers to do all their hubs with C&C.

t0pc4t

Thanks Nick.

The first one I need to do is my commuter which has shimano front and back, the Anthem can wait a spell so I'll research the Formula hub after I have done the commuter bike ones.

cheers buddy

paul20v

konadawg wrote:

There MUST be some freeplay in the shaft when the wheel is out of the frame. When you apply the QR, the shaft bends fractionally and takes up the slack

The cones fail first (apart from the balls). They are, theoretically, available as spares. Read into that what you wish.

Hi
what do you mean the cones are theoretically available as spares ?

and im not picking on you but the shaft doesnt bend when tightening the skewer up
if this happened the cones would run out of line
if theres any extra clamp force on the cones it would be the slight play in the tread on the axle and cone allowing it to move to the opposite side of the thread pitch . 8)

nicklouse

paul20v wrote:

Hi
what do you mean the cones are theoretically available as spares ?

they are available.

BERGS2

nicklouse wrote:

paul20v wrote:

Hi
what do you mean the cones are theoretically available as spares ?

they are available.

but so expensive you micht as well get a hub and use the other bist for spares: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-hub- ... pt422_pg1/

see my other topic for my woes on this one!