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£400 Fine for riding at Cranham / Buckholt!!!

dirty facedirty face Posts: 139
edited March 2011 in Routes
Hi,

I was riding with a couple of friends in Buckholt Woods today, at the bottom of the 'Wall' trail, someone had put a sign up which read something like this:

"My fellow MTB'ers, 2 of us were recently fined £400 each for riding.........etc etc..........keep a lookout for wardens...etc etc..."

In other words, deterring us from riding at Cranham. Has anyone else heard of these fines being handed out? I have my suspicions about who put the signs up as I've read about issues with this area before and folk erecting signs that claim to be from the police (i've read the long thread about this).

Just wandered if anyone knew of any truth to what this sign is saying?
If you don't fall off you're not trying hard enough!

Posts

  • chris.d.wchris.d.w Posts: 43
    Surely unless its the police, they cant dish out fines anyway? The only thing the landowner might be able to do is try and get you done for trespassing. But unless there are fences that you physically jumped over and signs actually telling you its private and you aren't allowed in. They don't have a leg to stand on?
  • dirty facedirty face Posts: 139
    chris.d.w wrote:
    Surely unless its the police, they cant dish out fines anyway? The only thing the landowner might be able to do is try and get you done for trespassing. But unless there are fences that you physically jumped over and signs actually telling you its private and you aren't allowed in. They don't have a leg to stand on?

    As I understand it, it would be a civil offence, not a criminal one, and something that local authorities can fine you for. However, I think you're right about fences/signs etc, and I think that it may be someone local putting up the sign as a deterrence (I've read somewhere before that this was done by a well known anti-mtb local)

    I'm still gonna ride there, but I wandered if anyone else had seen this sign and/or knows anything about it's origin
    If you don't fall off you're not trying hard enough!
  • theshrewtheshrew Posts: 169
    If your not on Private Property i cant see the problem ?

    Anyway who the hell is going to fine you ? They would have to catch you first then you would have to give the person your details.

    Ride off or give them a false name and add. Not like they will be able to trace you
  • stumpyjonstumpyjon Posts: 4,069
    Pretty much everything is private property, including council owned land. You can theoretically be sued for trepass if you ride somewhere you don't have a legal right to do so. lack of fences is irrelevant.

    Trepass is a civil offence, you can't be fined on the spot as there are no fines. You may have damages awarded against you but the landowner would have to show you somehow damaged the land or interferred with his legitimate use of the land.

    The only way I can think of fines being applicable is if the local council had managed to pass a byelaw prohibiting cycling. If this were the case I would suspect there would be proper signage up.

    My guess is the signs will be some disgruntled other user. Bear in mind though you have no right to ride there unless there are applicable rights of way, every time we come into conflict with land owners and other users we dent our cause for greater access rights (which people like the CTC are actively pushing for).
    It's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

    I've bought a new bike....ouch - result
    Can I buy a new bike?...No - no result
  • dirty facedirty face Posts: 139
    stumpyjon wrote:
    My guess is the signs will be some disgruntled other user. .
    that's what I think too.

    Why in the lord's name would anyone want to waste their time trying to stop people from riding bicycles and enjoying what little 'green' land we have left? Some people need a right good kick up the !"£$% . These people should be made to have some FACTS shoved down their throats. FACT like:

    we don't burn fuels
    we don't destroy land (far less than horse riders)
    we don't provide 'noise pollution'
    we partake in a healthy activity
    youngsters that ride aren't at home eating censored and getting fat
    youngsters that ride aren't on street corners intimidating communities

    etc etc
    If you don't fall off you're not trying hard enough!
  • Muttly1981Muttly1981 Posts: 849
    I've been having an argument today at work about my local woods, right in the middle there is an old crater that has taken shape over the years to give us some half decent jumps and is the only place for miles to do any kind of jump riding. I've been riding there since i was a kid as have others for about 30 years. Anyway over the last few years it has deteriorated to the point a few parts are pretty much unrideable, so when i was up there yesterday i mentioned aboout writing to the council and local MP about getting permission to go up with some spades and start repairing/improving the area, after just mentioning it at the jumps i've already got a list of 32 names from kids - 40 year olds who are all willing to get involved in some way so i mentioned it in work today one bloke has already said that he's going to write to the council and local papers opposing my plans. He says it isn't a bike park and he walks his dogs in the same woods he's going to do his best to get bikes banned in the woods :?
    I'm hoping to get a meeting sorted with my MP in the next few weeks so hopefully it'll get the ball rolling as with some energy put in it could become a very good riding spot for years to come that will keep kids off the streets

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt5ZsMHO4uk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_jH1UHTRo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPcqi-TtPMY
    What if your dreams and fears existed in the same place? What if to get to heaven, you had to brave hell? What if everything you've ever wanted cost you everything you've ever achieved? Would you still go there?
  • dirty facedirty face Posts: 139
    good luck with your plans, and get in there quick before this moaning git does, I hate people like that, what gives him the right to walk his dogs around there yet complain the minute someone else wants to make good use of the same area, why should he take precedence over others... and I bet he doesn't pick up his dog sh!t either!
    If you don't fall off you're not trying hard enough!
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    Wonder what the guy's reason is for actually saying he will go to MP/media to oppose you...


    Unless he was just trollin'? Where do you work btw?

    OP - keep a look out for wardens? WTF? Does not seem likely that you will see wardens walking round the woods lol
  • Muttly1981Muttly1981 Posts: 849
    Valy wrote:
    Wonder what the guy's reason is for actually saying he will go to MP/media to oppose you...


    Unless he was just trollin'? Where do you work btw?

    OP - keep a look out for wardens? WTF? Does not seem likely that you will see wardens walking round the woods lol

    He's just a moaning middle aged censored he's the kind of person that would like all land to be for walkers and bird watchers. I told him about the walking routes at Llandegla and that there are black Grouse up there so off he went for a days hiking but did nothing but complain for the next week about those bloody mountain bikers ruining the area :roll:

    I've been up there riding tonight after work for an hour and there was about 50 kids all on BMX riding the jumps but someone has been up since sunday and cut a tree down blocking the drop in for Devils drop. We tried to shift it but it just wasn't happening so may head up tomorrow with a few mates with handsaws to clear the path. I was chating to one of the lads who was no older than 13 dressed head to toe in Nike chav ware and he said by all rights he should be hanging out shops etc but would rather hang out in the woods and ride jumps and he can't understand why people have a problem with that. I have had contact with the council in the past about a bike park on the site of the old park zoo and although it was considered a very good idea the costs at the time would be too high so i may have some luck with re doing the current areas as it will all be volentary so no costs.
    What if your dreams and fears existed in the same place? What if to get to heaven, you had to brave hell? What if everything you've ever wanted cost you everything you've ever achieved? Would you still go there?
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    I see. Suppose if the guy had MTBkers left and right all day while trying to walk he has a point.

    But that place seems like a good idea - go for it for sure. You have my vote! :P
  • Muttly1981Muttly1981 Posts: 849
    Valy wrote:
    I see. Suppose if the guy had MTBkers left and right all day while trying to walk he has a point.

    But that place seems like a good idea - go for it for sure. You have my vote! :P

    Yes he would have a point but except Llandegla is a trail center with seperate paths for walking, unfortunately he thinks he has the right to walk on the MTB trail. Like i said the guy just looks for an excuse to moan about people using bikes. Maybe if he got on a bike once in a while he wouldn't be 22 stone :twisted:

    I'm only working 1/2 day tomorrow so am going to go and see the owners of the local bike shops too see if they can help in anyway but
    first i need to get the letter to the council and local MP sorted which is my first stumbling block as i'm hopeless at writing letters lol
    second will be to get a list of names of local riders who'll support the project (i'm confident of at least 50)
    third is to get started on two other patches of scrub land that has some potential in the area :D
    What if your dreams and fears existed in the same place? What if to get to heaven, you had to brave hell? What if everything you've ever wanted cost you everything you've ever achieved? Would you still go there?
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    Muttly1981 wrote:
    Valy wrote:
    I see. Suppose if the guy had MTBkers left and right all day while trying to walk he has a point.

    But that place seems like a good idea - go for it for sure. You have my vote! :P

    Yes he would have a point but except Llandegla is a trail center with seperate paths for walking, unfortunately he thinks he has the right to walk on the MTB trail. Like i said the guy just looks for an excuse to moan about people using bikes. Maybe if he got on a bike once in a while he wouldn't be 22 stone :twisted:

    "Oh"
    :lol:


    Hope you get it as it really does sound like a great place - especially for kids. Always nice to have "a spot" when you are a kid! :D
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