Split from the UCI

Bakunin

Cool.

F1 as a model?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/11-majo ... om-the-uci

peterst6906

I think the last couple of sentences are the most revealing in terms of where this is heading in the near future.

So we are probably a long way off any breakaway yet, but the pressure will keep building while the current rift between the teams and the UCI exists.

Something else now to be discussed endlessly, but at least it isn't doping related, although the NFL, NBA, MLB, F1 and other private sports bodies don't have great records in anti-doping controls, so like everything, advantages and disadvantages.

Regards,

Peter

iainf72

50p says the UCI will respond by mentioning the Olympics (queue Benny Hills music and sped up footage of people riding bikes around a wooden circle)

Kléber

I'm not sure about this but we can't say much without the detail.

What worries me is that it's not being done for the good of the sport but by a few people getting frustrated because they can't have everything they want. Nobody owns the sport and that's probably a good thing.

The risk is a few guys sail off into the sunset with the top races and teams and they cherrypick the best bits of the calendar. Loads of struggling races would risk being wiped out and meanwhile amateur racers find themselves stuck with "wounded bear" Pat and his diminished UCI.

LangerDan

I'm not convinced that putting the foxes in charge of the henhouse is the way to resolve the current issues. With what little we know about the current plan, its not just the amateurs that would be left to the UCI. With 11 teams rumoured to be participating, it still leaves a significant number of ProTour level teams out in the cold, as well as the ProConti level squads. Unless we are going to see a return to race teams of 15 and 20 riders, the race organisers are going to need to fill their events with significant numbers of riders from outside the annointed 11. So race organisers would have to try and keep the new system AND the UCI system happy.

For all the screw-ups that have defined the ProTour and the associated licences, there have been some some good moves too - minimum wage levels for riders, financial stability checks on teams and the requirement for bank guarantees to underwrite the staff wages in the event of a team going t!ts-up. In the sphere of financial screwing-over of riders over the years, the one group that has been even worse than the UCI has been the team owner / managers.

My guess is that this is just an opening negotiating position, albeit one communicated with a megaphone. Funny to see Zomegan involved in this one - I'd have fully expected to see this as an ASO endorsed initiative, particularly now that they are tied-in with the big boys of AEG

blazing_saddles

To think it was just 4 short years ago that JV was so humble and pleased that his fledgling Slipstream team were making their Giro debut.

I'm in agreement with those who fear for the smaller teams and all those races currently surviving from hand to mouth.
There doesn't appear to be any contingency in this plan, below this elite level.
Therefore I fear a cull of the weakest may actually be a desired outcome, were this to get off the ground.

As for following the F1 or NFL model, neither has been without it's major problems. Wrangling over tv bonuses and spiraling costs, not to mention player unrest.

I'm all for securing quality and stable sponsorship, but to what ends?

Are we going to the the peloton grind to a halt, very 15 minutes, only to take off again, "after a word from our sponsors"?

sonny73

Kléber wrote:

I'm not sure about this but we can't say much without the detail.

What worries me is that it's not being done for the good of the sport but by a few people getting frustrated because they can't have everything they want. Nobody owns the sport and that's probably a good thing.

The risk is a few guys sail off into the sunset with the top races and teams and they cherrypick the best bits of the calendar. Loads of struggling races would risk being wiped out and meanwhile amateur racers find themselves stuck with "wounded bear" Pat and his diminished UCI.

+1, at present I don't see it as a potential good move for the sport.

Buckled_Rims

The commonality between the FL, NBA and F1 are huge sponsorships and television audiences. These go together and have an almost self fulfilling story line for journalists and broadcasters. The lives of footballers off the pitch are more important then on the pitch. F1 are playboys. NBA players are paid mega bucks.

Cycling has a huge following, but very little television coverage. Sponsorship is usually a mix and match of minor conglomerates, apart from a select few ie Sky. Drugs have damaged the sport immensely (no F1 driver, only minor league footballers and basketball is a very closed clique protecting it's audience from drug usage).

I don't believe top team cycling will survive without UCI. Sponsors will jump ship or new sponsors with the attitude of hiding and protecting drug cheats will come along. It would be in their interest to do so.

There is also the question of technical specs of bikes. If leaving the UCI, then the weight limit might be thrown out of the window leading to a bike war that will eventually be parallel to F1 in that bikes will become so expensive and specialised (no pun intended) that us poor morals will have no chance of owning a closely related model. The extra cost of bike development might bring down the team members to half. What's going to happen to talent?

If I have to jump on a boat, then I'll probably jump in the UCI junket, for now... with my bucket ready to bail out

iainf72

Buckled_Rims wrote:

There is also the question of technical specs of bikes. If leaving the UCI, then the weight limit might be thrown out of the window leading to a bike war that will eventually be parallel to F1 in that bikes will become so expensive and specialised (no pun intended) that us poor morals will have no chance of owning a closely related model.

:

Surely that's the riders, not the fans ? :P

Down the Road

It's ALL about radios and MONEY.

Like all well paid prima donnas they want more Seems a strange time to float this idea with ASO and the UCI now freinds. Common sense will prevail and nothing will really change. Can't see any improvement in dope control if the promoter becomes the policeman that is why we need the UCI and WADA

TMR

Down the Road wrote:

It's ALL about radios and MONEY.

Like all well paid prima donnas they want more Seems a strange time to float this idea with ASO and the UCI now freinds. Common sense will prevail and nothing will really change. Can't see any improvement in dope control if the promoter becomes the policeman that is why we need the UCI and WADA

They should get more. They are vastly underpaid compared to the best athletes in other sports.

Kléber

Sports stars earn plenty but it's not dependent on the model. Premiership footballers rake it in whilst their clubs teeter on bankruptcy.

What the plans here see to involve is a grab by teams and race organisers. The riders could well get the shaft, as they have done since the sport began.

calvjones

Bargaining chip. Won't happen.

One reason.

Rainbow jersey.



Oh, and anyone holding up F1, Premier League and US Franchises as examples of better-run sport are supping with the corporate devil to an extent Cycling can only dream. Bring a verrryyy long spoon and make sure to get that Sky Sports subscription nice n early

rick_chasey

The only thing that has residual value in cycling are the races themselves.

As long as the organisers are on the UCI side - nothing will happen.

andyp

This is pie in the sky stuff isn't it? Who wants a sport modelled on F1 or Premier League football?

One thing to add to the interesting debate, how many blue chip sponsors have invested in cycling? Most sponsors of Pro Tour teams are localised regional companies like Liquigas, Quick Step, Rabobank, Sky and Omega Pharma with support from big names in the bike industry. The number of truely global major companies can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

RichN95.

andyp wrote:

One thing to add to the interesting debate, how many blue chip sponsors have invested in cycling? Most sponsors of Pro Tour teams are localised regional companies like Liquigas, Quick Step, Rabobank, Sky and Omega Pharma with support from big names in the bike industry. The number of truely global major companies can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Rabobank? They're not some pokey Dutch buliding society. They're the 225th biggest company in the world.

Sky aren't exactly small time either.

andyp

The Sky sponsorship comes solely from the UK division as far as I understand it.

Hands up all those people with a Rabobank account.

lostboysaint

andyp wrote:

This is pie in the sky stuff isn't it? Who wants a sport modelled on F1 or Premier League football?

Whoever is doing the organising. Look at the Poison Dwarf in F1 and the PL clubs income.

Gingerflash

"What worries me is that it's not being done for the good of the sport but by a few people getting frustrated because they can't have everything they want."

I suspect Vaughters sees an opportunity for making a few quid and increasing his own power, seeing what Ecclestone has made out of F1.

Whenever I hear him whining, I can't help but think "who the hell do you think you are?". He's only been in team management for about 10 minutes and now he's demanding that he decide how the sport should be run.

I suppose they picked him as head of AIGCP because he complains about everything but he does come accross as a bit of a spoilt brat, now threatening to take his ball and play with his special friends somewhere else.

csp

Does anyone know where the Cyclingnews article's accompanying picture (the one that flashes in the headline on the Cyclingnews homepage, with the gorge in the background, not the one in the actual article showing a feed zone) was taken?

andyp

csp wrote:

Does anyone know where the Cyclingnews article's accompanying picture (the one that flashes in the headline on the Cyclingnews homepage, with the gorge in the background, not the one in the actual article showing a feed zone) was taken?

It's the Turchino pass during Milan-San Remo.

afx237vi

People hold up F1 as some kind of model as to how a successful sporting organisation can be operated, but forget that last year's championship was almost derailed when most of the teams threatened to break away and form a championship of their own (over budget caps).

squired

I can see how they would want to angle this. Instead of sponsored teams you'd have a select group of franchises, with sponsors. They would then try to build followings for the franchises and maybe there would even be a more structured transfer system (like football). It would be pushed very much as a team sport, rather than about individuals within the team. Again, this would be part of trying to build the fan following for individual franchises.

Presumably they would look at revenue streams more closely, as events would need to give out more cash to the teams to be part of the new system. Any bets on them having discussions about what they could do to get people to pay money for prime spots in finishing straights or on mountains?

I can imagine the 10 point plan, or whatever it was called, which was on the BBC website, had a lot of the ideas that have been discussed for this potential breakaway.

It isn't about the future of the sport, it is about a select few wanting to make loads of money. They want to split off into their own little lucrative group and coin it in, then leave the UCI to try to work on the infrastructure and development of the sport.

LangerDan

Another problem with F1 model is that if you combine it with some of the components of Chairman Jonathan's five year, sorry, ten-point plan, you may end up, not with "F1" but with the stillborn monstrosity that was A1 GP.
Still ,the A1 concept of national teams might appeal to the traditionalists, esp JVs "Team America (F*ck - Yeah") Racing"

csp

andyp wrote:

csp wrote:

Does anyone know where the Cyclingnews article's accompanying picture (the one that flashes in the headline on the Cyclingnews homepage, with the gorge in the background, not the one in the actual article showing a feed zone) was taken?

It's the Turchino pass during Milan-San Remo.

Thanks Andy. It's a beautiful picture even in this small size. I've got to find the original.

sonny73

Teams named: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7883/Eleven-rebel-teams-named-in-relation-to-potential-split-with-the-UCI.aspx