OT? Touring with tent and stuff

iclestu

Ok - this may well belong in another forum area but you guys are always chatty and friendly and have advised me well in the past so here goes....

After nearly 2 years of regular cycle commuting I am eyeing up the possibility of doing some touring. My parents live in the central belt of Scotland and I live in Yorkshire so it would seem like a feasible option to 'tour' my way up to them where a hot shower and comfy bed could provide a rest for a day or 2 before heading back. Now, the questions.....

1. I have a boardman CX and a couple of rear panniers. No possibility of front panniers as it has carbon forks so will I be off balance? When im lugging a load in my panniers now the bike does feel a little 'rear heavy' but I just get on with it. How much of a load can i lug before i start worrying about stability or even the integrity of the rear wheel???

2. I don't intend to do the 'camp cooking' thing. Surely I will never be too far away from a cafe/supermarket/mcdonalds to go hungry if i don't bother to lug a stove and pots and pans etc? If i sleep in a tent surely i save enough on accommodation to be able to stuff my face in a cafe or pub for my meals? All the t'interweb advice seems to be light-touring/creditcard touring = no tent with sleeping in b&b's etc or fully loaded touring = completely self-supporting with camp stove etc. Has anyone else tried forgoing the cooking but still sleeping in a tent? good/bad experiences to share??

3. Thinking i could really benefit from a handlebar bag (thinking sharing weight just a little bit more evenly plus map-case on top would be really helpful). The Boardman has little interrupter brakes right where it would be mounted tho. Can these be easily removed? Im not sure if the cable is in 2 sections or if these simply 'latch on' to the cable?

Kit bought so far:

http://www.gelert.com/products/tents/tent_size/1_person/solo_tent

http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-7415.aspx?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=GSF_NormalFeed&utm_campaign=GSF_TescoDirect&utm_content=200-7415

self inflating sleeping mat i couldn't find a link for.

Any thoughts? Ideas? Advice? All gratefully received

EKE_38BPM

FCN Calculator = www.itsnotarace.org

Can't help with touring advice though.

iclestu

Thanks EKE - no sign of a cyclocross bike on the starting ones tho? Do I go with 'touring bike' (i do have mudguards!)???

Kieran_Burns

Yeah....

you might want to come back in week or so. Right now we're debating sack-bashing and the onanistic morality of big tits.

iclestu

lol - yeah, ive been reading the moral debate on the other channel!

lost_in_thought

Hey hey!

I've done a few tours on my Tifosi (pic in sig link) which also has carbon forks, so no front panniers.

I did a half-way house set-up, carried a stove and pot (dude - you only need one) and some basic supplies - breakfast material mostly, so coffee (plus cafetiere), some carbs of my choosing. I also had a tent (4m long, 1.5m wide, 2-man), sleeping bag, thermarest, washing kit for me and my clothes, book, radio, phones, chargers, water, high5 powder, etc etc. All in 2 of the smaller Altura Orkney panniers, and strapped to the rack, and in a bar bag.

And I had space for souvenirs. Yeah. It's very possible, you just need to be a bit smart with shopping and packing.

Bar bags - most use a klick fix mounting which you can buy extensions for so you don't have to worry about messing with your levers.

Oh and you can carry a hell of a lot before worrying about the rear wheel. I've carried a 60kg person on mine, not for far, I grant you, but the 'max tolerance 25kg' is apparently just advisory!

If you want shopping advice, do ask.

Wallace1492

Hello there!!

I have toured a lot on my Tricross, very similar to the Boardman CX, but probably a better bike.... But lets not debate that!! It has carbon forks too.

1. Yes it will feel rear heavy, it's because you have full panniers on the back!! But hey, you get used to it... only problem is really, really steep hills will be a bummer, as your front wheel will rise up. I have only had to get off once on a 1 in 4 because front wheel was rising not because I couldn't pedal. Just spread load evenly between both sides, and carry as little as you can. Seriously as little.
2. I have small stove/pot, very light. smallest gas cartridge too. Use for pasta at side of road or hot chocolate/coffee/tea whenever. Most main meals from cafe's pubs etc. But it is nice to be able to stop whenever and have a warm meal. Take a few pasta packets or packet soups. Honestly hardly any weight and it realy lifts your spirits. MSR Pocket Rocket stove and 1 small bowl that is also a pot and a mug and a spork.
3. Good idea. I missed a handlebar bag and bought one for this year. Would be good for camera/wallet/map/snacks/ipod/phone etc. Stuff that would otherwise get lost in the panniers. Can't comment on the silly brakes as I don't have them on Tricross.

It is fantastic thing to do, but what sort of milage you intending to do? If never done it before, don't go much over 40ish. That what's I started with a few years ago. Last year was doing over 90 with full wild camping kit.

lost_in_thought

Wallace1492 wrote:

It is fantastic thing to do, but what sort of milage you intending to do? If never done it before, don't go much over 40ish. That what's I started with a few years ago. Last year was doing over 90 with full wild camping kit.

I'd probably edit that to 'not more than 40-ish per day'. My first ever tour was in France, 250 miles over 5 days, not neatly split to 50 miles per day, and it was a bit too much. I did a solo tour of 180+ miles over 3.5 days, and that was about right.

Wallace1492

Meant to say bring a wet suit, as that wee tent will ens up soaking inside with the condensation. Got the same one myself, and although it is better than my previous one, it still is a tad damp.

I would probably take a bigger tent in future, the coffin like feel of the Gelert is just too small, and I am a wee guy! You can't sit up in it and getting changed is like auditioning to be a contortionist.

You will love it.....

notsoblue

With regards to the wheels, what do you have on it right now? I foolishly chanced a LEJOG on fairly low spoke count wheels (on my Scott, linked below) and while I was riding through the Lake District had a gear side spoke go ping on me. The wheels lasted the rest of the tour but they were a mess by the end and needed replacing. High spoke count wheels are a must for touring imo.

My 2p...

EKE_38BPM

Again, I'm not a tourer, but I've heard good things about penny stoves. Google it.
I found a really good page about them but can't find it at the mo. I'll post it if I can find it later.

iclestu

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

It is fantastic thing to do, but what sort of milage you intending to do? If never done it before, don't go much over 40ish. That what's I started with a few years ago. Last year was doing over 90 with full wild camping kit.

I'd probably edit that to 'not more than 40-ish per day'. My first ever tour was in France, 250 miles over 5 days, not neatly split to 50 miles per day, and it was a bit too much. I did a solo tour of 180+ miles over 3.5 days, and that was about right.

Thanks for your input guys.

Hmmm - I admit I thought I'd be covering a bit more than that. I commute 26 miles a day roundtrip which amounts to about 2 hours on bike. I realise that carrying a load and being at it all day will drastically cut down my average speed but I really thought it would be more than 40 miles a day. I have comfortably did 65miles+ in a day ride before with kit and clothes in my panniers (admitedly waaaay lighter than everything id need to carry touring). Hmmmmm - maybe i should cycle up there then get a train back or something...

Going to look into that camping stove thing although I'm not generally bothered for a hot drink and not convinced I would be happier faffing with a hot meal rather than just scoffin a sarnie or crisps or something. You guys think the urge for hot stuff will hit me 'on the road' or is it just that these things are your own preferences?

lost_in_thought

Wallace1492 wrote:

Meant to say bring a wet suit, as that wee tent will ens up soaking inside with the condensation. Got the same one myself, and although it is better than my previous one, it still is a tad damp.

I would probably take a bigger tent in future, the coffin like feel of the Gelert is just too small, and I am a wee guy! You can't sit up in it and getting changed is like auditioning to be a contortionist.

You will love it.....

Yeah, I didn't fancy the coffin... I got me one of these

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Activity/Cy ... Green.html

and it's fantastic - super-fast to pitch, packs down really small, nice short poles, very light, and loads of room inside and in the porch.

EDIT: the MSR Pocket Rocket is THE stove. The only stove.

Wallace1492

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

Meant to say bring a wet suit, as that wee tent will ens up soaking inside with the condensation. Got the same one myself, and although it is better than my previous one, it still is a tad damp.

I would probably take a bigger tent in future, the coffin like feel of the Gelert is just too small, and I am a wee guy! You can't sit up in it and getting changed is like auditioning to be a contortionist.

You will love it.....

Yeah, I didn't fancy the coffin... I got me one of these

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Activity/Cy ... Green.html

and it's fantastic - super-fast to pitch, packs down really small, nice short poles, very light, and loads of room inside and in the porch.

EDIT: the MSR Pocket Rocket is THE stove. The only stove.

Quite fancy that tent LIT.... but just bough me a camper van!! But will be doing cycle touring and may just take my TNF Tadpole instead. Pocket Rocket all the way......

iclestu

notsoblue wrote:

With regards to the wheels, what do you have on it right now? I foolishly chanced a LEJOG on fairly low spoke count wheels (on my Scott, linked below) and while I was riding through the Lake District had a gear side spoke go ping on me. The wheels lasted the rest of the tour but they were a mess by the end and needed replacing. High spoke count wheels are a must for touring imo.

My 2p...

from bikeradar review.... Mavic CXP 22 machined alloy aero. Maybe that means more to yout han to me?! Im not a bikekit boffin by any stretch of the imagination. (ooooo i can count spokes tho! there are 32 of them)

lost_in_thought

iclestu wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

It is fantastic thing to do, but what sort of milage you intending to do? If never done it before, don't go much over 40ish. That what's I started with a few years ago. Last year was doing over 90 with full wild camping kit.

I'd probably edit that to 'not more than 40-ish per day'. My first ever tour was in France, 250 miles over 5 days, not neatly split to 50 miles per day, and it was a bit too much. I did a solo tour of 180+ miles over 3.5 days, and that was about right.

Thanks for your input guys.

Hmmm - I admit I thought I'd be covering a bit more than that. I commute 26 miles a day roundtrip which amounts to about 2 hours on bike. I realise that carrying a load and being at it all day will drastically cut down my average speed but I really thought it would be more than 40 miles a day. I have comfortably did 65miles+ in a day ride before with kit and clothes in my panniers (admitedly waaaay lighter than everything id need to carry touring). Hmmmmm - maybe i should cycle up there then get a train back or something...

Going to look into that camping stove thing although I'm not generally bothered for a hot drink and not convinced I would be happier faffing with a hot meal rather than just scoffin a sarnie or crisps or something. You guys think the urge for hot stuff will hit me 'on the road' or is it just that these things are your own preferences?

Yeah, it does depend on your fitness, endurance etc. I would not think twice about doing 60 miles in a day, it's doing another 60 miles the next day, and the day after that etc that is the issue. I would certainly advise planning to taper at the very least - make your first day your longest.

I would add that I've done most of my touring in the height of summer. I am the queen of awesome tans.

For the stove thing - I found none of the campsites I was at offered a breakfast, ymmv, and I need coffee in the morning, as well as needing to get carbs on board asap.

Wallace1492

iclestu wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

It is fantastic thing to do, but what sort of milage you intending to do? If never done it before, don't go much over 40ish. That what's I started with a few years ago. Last year was doing over 90 with full wild camping kit.

I'd probably edit that to 'not more than 40-ish per day'. My first ever tour was in France, 250 miles over 5 days, not neatly split to 50 miles per day, and it was a bit too much. I did a solo tour of 180+ miles over 3.5 days, and that was about right.

Thanks for your input guys.

Hmmm - I admit I thought I'd be covering a bit more than that. I commute 26 miles a day roundtrip which amounts to about 2 hours on bike. I realise that carrying a load and being at it all day will drastically cut down my average speed but I really thought it would be more than 40 miles a day. I have comfortably did 65miles+ in a day ride before with kit and clothes in my panniers (admitedly waaaay lighter than everything id need to carry touring). Hmmmmm - maybe i should cycle up there then get a train back or something...

Going to look into that camping stove thing although I'm not generally bothered for a hot drink and not convinced I would be happier faffing with a hot meal rather than just scoffin a sarnie or crisps or something. You guys think the urge for hot stuff will hit me 'on the road' or is it just that these things are your own preferences?

Just my own preference for a stove. Wouldn't do without it now, but each to their own.
But first thing in morning or at night, there is something lovely to have your own hot drink. Also stove can be mini heater if required (as it is up here in Jockland in summer)

As for distance, maybe you will be comfortable with longer distance, but it does take it out of you. You could do a lot in the first day, but then struggle second day, it really is different to just doing a 26 mile commute with no luggage. Maybe try 65 miles max to begin with. I did build up last year doing a few ton cycles, and sportives before I was able to do 270miles over 4 days. (last day had no luggage as mates met me)

wgwarburton

Hi,
It's been a while since I was touring but I reckoned 40-50 miles a day was reasonable going in the Highlands. Yorkshire to Central Scotland will not be flat.
The other thing to bear in mind is why you're doing it... If the intention is simply to get from A to B on a bike, then you can happily ride all day. I always wanted to be able to stop & look around on the way (one of the joys of cycling, easy to stop & explore) so would allow time for exploring ruins, wildlife reserves, tourist attractions, side trips, leisurely lunches....

Cheers,
W.

Nicholls2k

On my last "serious" tour I was hitting around 100km a day in the French Alps. I was not blessed with a panier rack but I did have a rucksack.

I had a sleeping bag a bivvy bag (a bad attitude towards rain), at tops 5 pairs of socks (I jetisoned a pair a day) I won't mention how much underwear I took...

and a baguette with Brie + Sausison and a few emergency croissants.

It was a good tour (apart from when it rained and I gave up and stayed in a hostel) I did about a month in France for £400 with flights each way

Pretty much all my money went on food. I slept in bushes

I think your most important thing would be to look at the route and avoid as many A roads as possible while still making progress.

I did a trip from Bath ->Oxford last weekend (75 miles each way) and totally fucked it and spent over half my time on fast A-roads which were not enjoyable. Especially on the way back and I was hungover

Aidy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Yeah, it does depend on your fitness, endurance etc. I would not think twice about doing 60 miles in a day, it's doing another 60 miles the next day, and the day after that etc that is the issue. I would certainly advise planning to taper at the very least - make your first day your longest.

I've done a few touring jaunts now, and I reckon it's better to build up to doing longer days over the course of the tour.

The first few I did with the hiking wisdom of a longest first day resulted in being completely buggered for all of the remaining days.

Oh okay, and MSR Whisperlite. I hate gas hiking stoves.

walkingbootweather

Done a few tours in my time. These days much prefer a comfy bed and somewhere safeish to leave my bike so less likely to take a tent or stove (cup or tea obligatory at B&B then regular refreshment stops througout the day).

Have camped in the past, but then gone in a group, so shared the load (one takes the tent, another takes stove and pans etc.).

Usually manage between 40 and 75 miles per day depending upon terrain, weather and company. Like to stop and take in the sights, or eat and drink regularly. Aim for between 4 and 6 hours in the saddle each day to get a balance between making sensible progress and enjoyment.

Good luck.

Gadge

Hi Lit,

"I am the queen of awesome tans. "
Er not according to your photo ....About on a par with Nicole Kidman in the winter and me most of the time. Factor 30 is my choice until about day 30!!

Interested to hear your experienced views on touring and allowable weight.
Looking like I may be off on a bit of a French coast to coast sometime soon.

Have been fretting on the weight of my tent at 3.odd kilos but that is not much heavier then the one you have bought so have now decided to load it all up and go on a tester ride to see if I really need to spring for a one kilo Laser "coffin" or not.

Mine is a Vango 300 so almost as big as a yurt for one with room for a bike INSIDE the porch. Course I may need to stop riding about mid day to get it erected on my own before the light finally fades. Hopefully I may improve with practise....Happy trails.

rf6

It's getting to that time of year! I did my first tour last year (inspired by a Wallace1492 thread), and bloody loved it!

I aimed to do about 40 miles a day, but ended up doing 50 a day. That was with stopping at any interesting site, cake stops and lazy lunches.

I was on a bit of a budget, so used an old tent that was lying in the back of the garage, a 3 season sleeping bag, and bought a Swedish army surplus trangia stove which are cheap and easy to get fuel for, if a little heavy. If you're happy with cold drinks and food, then you'll save weight and space, but I'm firmly in the needing a brew in the morning camp, and I like warm food after a days riding.

The bar bag is a great idea for your valuables, camera etc.. Whatever you do, let's us know how you got on!

jimmypippa

If you want to ask people who are obsessive about weight etc, then the outdoorsmagic forum might be worthwhile.

See for example this thread about making your own lightweight stove....

If I recall correctly, the burner is made from a red bull tin.

I've only camped by backpack, but would really want some means to brew up. But that's just because you don't want to see me if I haven't had my cup of tea. I *like* coffee, especially espresso but *need* tea.

TheStone

I did Seattle to San Francisco last year with just rear panniers. No problem at all, in fact it seemed the perfect setup. The strangest thing was when I got back and rode without the weight ... felt really odd for a few days. Also didn't notice any problems in the hills.

I took a small stove, but hardly used it. A lot of effort, for very poor meals, so just loaded up at whatever diners, shops I could find. This worked ok.

The opposite to what I expected, I got stronger as the days went on .... and really noticed the days when I'd had a few too many the night before.

Didn't use a bar bag.

Wallace1492

rf6 wrote:

It's getting to that time of year! I did my first tour last year (inspired by a Wallace1492 thread), and bloody loved it!

I aimed to do about 40 miles a day, but ended up doing 50 a day. That was with stopping at any interesting site, cake stops and lazy lunches.

I was on a bit of a budget, so used an old tent that was lying in the back of the garage, a 3 season sleeping bag, and bought a Swedish army surplus trangia stove which are cheap and easy to get fuel for, if a little heavy. If you're happy with cold drinks and food, then you'll save weight and space, but I'm firmly in the needing a brew in the morning camp, and I like warm food after a days riding.

The bar bag is a great idea for your valuables, camera etc.. Whatever you do, let's us know how you got on!

Why thank you sir!! Glad I could be of service!!

This years tour for me is Glasgow to Durness via Arran, Oban, Barra, South and North Uist, Skye, Lochcarron, Gareloch and Ullapool. It will end back at Ullapool on the weekend when the Takk Ships (or a few of then at least) visit. It covers some of the most spectalular island and roads in God's Own Country and will be abot 500 miles all in.

Really looking forward to it. But there will be plenty more of quick weekend excursions....

lost_in_thought

Gadge wrote:

Hi Lit,

"I am the queen of awesome tans. "
Er not according to your photo ....About on a par with Nicole Kidman in the winter and me most of the time. Factor 30 is my choice until about day 30!!

Interested to hear your experienced views on touring and allowable weight.
Looking like I may be off on a bit of a French coast to coast sometime soon.

Have been fretting on the weight of my tent at 3.odd kilos but that is not much heavier then the one you have bought so have now decided to load it all up and go on a tester ride to see if I really need to spring for a one kilo Laser "coffin" or not.

Mine is a Vango 300 so almost as big as a yurt for one with room for a bike INSIDE the porch. Course I may need to stop riding about mid day to get it erected on my own before the light finally fades. Hopefully I may improve with practise....Happy trails.

Hahaha! No, true, I'm very pale in that photo... but I do tan like fury! I tour in sandals (no socks ftw) and so get all manner of exciting foot tans, as well as the obligatory t-shirt tan

Before I bought the one linked above I had an old dome tent with a little porch that did the job just fine and dandy, it was just a lot slower to put up and take down, and didn't pack down anywhere near as small. For me personally, pack size is more important than weight. I can sort of fit the bike in the porch of mine

lost_in_thought

TheStone wrote:

I did Seattle to San Francisco last year with just rear panniers. No problem at all, in fact it seemed the perfect setup. The strangest thing was when I got back and rode without the weight ... felt really odd for a few days. Also didn't notice any problems in the hills.

I took a small stove, but hardly used it. A lot of effort, for very poor meals, so just loaded up at whatever diners, shops I could find. This worked ok.

The opposite to what I expected, I got stronger as the days went on .... and really noticed the days when I'd had a few too many the night before.

Didn't use a bar bag.

Yeah, I would only be camp-cooking in a tight spot. Far more fun to take advantage of the mileage and stuff my face at every opportunity!

iclestu

really appreciate all your input guys. Think I am going to give the stove a miss for now. This:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12765927

is almost certainaly gonna put the brakes on my plans for the next few months anyway but that at least takes me into summer! Always a bright side, huh?

Will be sure to let you know how I get on.

MichaelW

I have been touring in France and Spain with the camp-but not cook style. Its a very easy, convenient way to tour and I only needed 2 rear panniers and a bar bag.
I used a Gelhert Solo tent which used to be a steal but is now merely good value. Not much space but I survived 2 weeks. You can fit a pannier under the flysheet each side.
You need a sleeping mat and a bag. I used a 3/4 length inflatable Vango mat. Everything could fit inside the panniers bags.

If you really want a hot drink solution, keep it simple with eg ESBIT style solid fuel tablets and a metal cup/pot.


My original reason for going camping was because I couldnt find any hotel room for the first night and the tent was cheaper than a hotel. I planned to use hotels more often but in the end, only used one during a stormy night.

rf6

Wallace1492 wrote:

rf6 wrote:

It's getting to that time of year! I did my first tour last year (inspired by a Wallace1492 thread), and bloody loved it!

I aimed to do about 40 miles a day, but ended up doing 50 a day. That was with stopping at any interesting site, cake stops and lazy lunches.

I was on a bit of a budget, so used an old tent that was lying in the back of the garage, a 3 season sleeping bag, and bought a Swedish army surplus trangia stove which are cheap and easy to get fuel for, if a little heavy. If you're happy with cold drinks and food, then you'll save weight and space, but I'm firmly in the needing a brew in the morning camp, and I like warm food after a days riding.

The bar bag is a great idea for your valuables, camera etc.. Whatever you do, let's us know how you got on!

Why thank you sir!! Glad I could be of service!!

This years tour for me is Glasgow to Durness via Arran, Oban, Barra, South and North Uist, Skye, Lochcarron, Gareloch and Ullapool. It will end back at Ullapool on the weekend when the Takk Ships (or a few of then at least) visit. It covers some of the most spectalular island and roads in God's Own Country and will be abot 500 miles all in.

Really looking forward to it. But there will be plenty more of quick weekend excursions....

Northern France for me, timed to see a couple of stages of the Tour de France. Cannot wait! Oh, and a +1 for the SPD sandals - there's nowt like the feeling of a warm breeze between your toes!