What does that mean??

josame

Cuddles (from CW):

"These last years with BMC have truly rejuvenated me," said Evans.
"In 2009 it was hard, I passed some bad moments. I deserved more support, in my opinion. I wasn't treated well, that left a bad feeling. The Tour was not good and then the Vuelta was a disaster. I really prepared well, though, I felt there were others working against me, then the puncture, and the [Operación] Puerto riders. My wife said, 'One day there will be justice.' Just after that, I was re-paid with my Worlds win in Mendrisio."

afx237vi

The bit in bold sounds like he's talking specifically about the Vuelta... won by Alejandro Valverde.

josame

gotcha ... I was a bit confused as puerto was 2006/7
interesting that he said 'riders'

nick hanson

josame wrote:

gotcha ... I was a bit confused as puerto was 2006/7
interesting that he said 'riders'

As far as I can recal,with Valverde,was Contador,who aided with the attack on Evans.
I would imagine he would group these 2 together as dopers.The comments from some pro riders when Contador was told he had a ban (possibly overturned,there's a surprise :roll: )said plenty that they thought he was guilty.
People went on about 'chaingate' at last years TDF,but,that was nothing compared to the injustice Evans suffered at the hands of the Spanish.
When he punctured (In the leaders jersey) the others went flat out.The service was so obviousley dragging their feet with a wheel change that a member of the public ended barging in & taking over.
After that I was chuffed when Evans attacked in the Worlds & was on the edge of my seat shouting him on
Awesome.

wicked

The man with an arse for a chin having a whine, what a suprise. Lotto do not exactly look that unhappy "after Cadel" either so everyones laughing.

Tusher

Actually, I'm always amazed that Cadel isn't more bitter about his losses to dopers over the years.
The puncture fiasco at the Vuelta must have felt like salt in the wound.

Coyote

Interesting how different folks interpret printed text presented out of context.

Wicked sees it as whine and I read it as a decent bloke giving an honest answer to a question presented to him ....and more interesting than the usual bland sound bites trotted out in interviews.

Evans is perfectly entitled to state his opinion on those events in Spain as they were pivotal moments for him which impacted his palmares and therefore his livelihood.

There is no doubt that the move from Lotto was a great move for him and possibly just as good for Lotto as it wasn't a good match, but I don't suppose Lotto were laughing all that much in Mendrisio and again yesterday afternoon.

I have really enjoyed watching Evans over the past couple of years and I personally think he's been a much needed breath of fresh air in the sport. Like him or not is of course your own personal choice but I don't see what the shape of his chin has got to do with anything.

B3rnieMac

i've had a huge man-crush on cadel since he left lotto.

jerry3571

Tusher wrote:

Actually, I'm always amazed that Cadel isn't more bitter about his losses to dopers over the years.
The puncture fiasco at the Vuelta must have felt like salt in the wound.

It's always nice to put hope in to a top pro rider that he's not doping; always a nice thing I guess but you do realise that even 16 year olds dope these days so lets not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

One thing Cadel needs to do is stop having punch ups on the front of the Peleton.
Must admit to seeing this youtube feature below seems to show another reason for his arms swinging about in the Cuddles style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCoprLj0 ... re=related

ANOTHER THING- Can he get a proper arms aloft type winning thing going on. When he wins it looks as though he is trying to do some complicated Maths using his fingers.
JUST STICK YOUR BLOODY ARMS IN THE AIR, MAN!!
The image below shows him thinking hard and I have counted 4 digits so it's something to do with the number 4...hmmm...



-Jerry

Ps- except for his faults I love the man

hammerite

jerry3571 wrote:

Tusher wrote:

Actually, I'm always amazed that Cadel isn't more bitter about his losses to dopers over the years.
The puncture fiasco at the Vuelta must have felt like salt in the wound.

It's always nice to put hope in to a top pro rider that he's not doping; always a nice thing I guess but you do realise that even 16 year olds dope these days so lets not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

One thing Cadel needs to do is stop having punch ups on the front of the peloton.
Must admit to seeing this youtube feature below seems to show another reason for his arms swinging about in the Cuddles style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCoprLj0 ... re=related

ANOTHER THING- Can he get a proper arms aloft type winning thing going on. When he wins it looks as though he is trying to do some complicated Maths on using his fingers.
JUST STICK YOUR BLOODY ARMS IN THE AIR, MAN!!
The image below shows him thinking hard and I have counted 4 digits so it's something to do with the number 4...hmmm...



-Jerry

Ps- except for his faults I love the man

Roadside at a race I was once asked who I wanted to win the TdF on camera for "international" TV, it was at the time when Evans was feeling the pressure and going off on one at everyone - and my embarrassing reply was "anyone but Evans". I hope they decided never to air that insightful piece of punditry. Needless to say like some of the other poster on here I'm now a bit of a fan.

Anyway..... I always thought that the "arms not quite aloft" thing was a reflection of the type of win he manages. Usually in hard, long races where he's had to bust more than a gut to win, and he's not really got the energy to lift his arms.

Moomaloid

I think he's won a lot of new fans through his rides in the Rainbow jersey.. he's def a major fave of mine now...

inkyfingers

He also got beaten up by Valverde in the Dauphine so that's two major wins he lost out on that year., you can understand why he's pissed.

Like many i've become a bigger fan of Evans since his worlds win. I didn't dislike him before, just thought he was a trier, but without the talent or nous to win the really big races. Show's how much I know...

Wheelspinner

I've looked before... here's who beat Evans in the recent GT's when he did well.

TdF
2005: Armstrong, Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo, Vinokourov, Leipheimer, Mike Rasmussen, EVANS
2006: Pereiro, Kloden, Sastre, EVANS
2007: Contador, EVANS
2008: Sastre, EVANS

Vuelta:
2007: Menchov, Sastre, Samuel Sanchez, EVANS
2009: Valverde, Sanchez, EVANS

Now, remove those names that have been either busted or implicated in doping programs, and see what Evans palmares could really have looked like by now. And people wonder sometimes why he seems a bit grumpy?

shinyhelmut

I remember watching Contador and Rasmussen playing with Evans, and the rest of the contendors, in the '07 tour as the day which convinced me Contador wasn't on bread and water. IIRC there were already major doubts over Rasmussen by this stage. Evans would almost certainly have won that tour.

I have to admit to being a bit biased though, I've been a fan of his since his mountain biking days.

wicked

Wheelspinner wrote:

I've looked before... here's who beat Evans in the recent GT's when he did well.

TdF
2005: Armstrong, Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo, Vinokourov, Leipheimer, Mike Rasmussen, EVANS
2006: Pereiro, Kloden, Sastre, EVANS
2007: Contador, EVANS
2008: Sastre, EVANS

Vuelta:
2007: Menchov, Sastre, Samuel Sanchez, EVANS
2009: Valverde, Sanchez, EVANS

Now, remove those names that have been either busted or implicated in doping programs, and see what Evans palmares could really have looked like by now. And people wonder sometimes why he seems a bit grumpy?

Nice bit of research there. Unfortunately this only works if Evans is clean. How do you know he is clean? I see a lot of posters on here talking about him as if its an absolute fact he has never doped and every other GT contender has!
The man had his golden chance in 2008 and even then he managed to fluff his lines and lose to Sastre. How the hell is he going to beat Basso a man he could not ascend with in the Giro, he certainly is going to struggle against baby Schleck.

calvjones

wicked wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

I've looked before... here's who beat Evans in the recent GT's when he did well.

TdF
2005: Armstrong, Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo, Vinokourov, Leipheimer, Mike Rasmussen, EVANS
2006: Pereiro, Kloden, Sastre, EVANS
2007: Contador, EVANS
2008: Sastre, EVANS

Vuelta:
2007: Menchov, Sastre, Samuel Sanchez, EVANS
2009: Valverde, Sanchez, EVANS

Now, remove those names that have been either busted or implicated in doping programs, and see what Evans palmares could really have looked like by now. And people wonder sometimes why he seems a bit grumpy?

Nice bit of research there. Unfortunately this only works if Evans is clean. How do you know he is clean? I see a lot of posters on here talking about him as if its an absolute fact he has never doped and every other GT contender has!
The man had his golden chance in 2008 and even then he managed to fluff his lines and lose to Sastre. How the hell is he going to beat Basso a man he could not ascend with in the Giro, he certainly is going to struggle against baby Schleck.

Nice bit of selective memory there. Evans lost against Sastre + FS + AS. After a pretty horrible crash in the 1st week.

Given how much he'll cane AS in the ITT he has to hope BMC can stay with Lee-o-pard in the TTT (not such a forlorn hope) and only lose, what 90secs in the hills? Perfectly possible, (if not necessarily probable).

The Parcours of all the big 3 GTs have largely been far more mountainous and less ITTish in recent years which has been a serious disadvantage for Cuddles.


Almost staying with the juicy pair of Bertie and Ras is pretty impressive if he's not juiced.

If he is, I'm off home.

Tom Butcher

Assuming he's clean I don't think there's much doubt his palmares would have been better had he not been riding against dopers - the same for any clean rider.

From that list for me the 2007 tour stands out as the one I think he'd have won. As far as I know there's not been much linking Sastre to any doping and I wouldn't assume Valverde was doping during the 2009 Vuelta. 2005 Evans was so far off that if you took out the riders ahead of him some of the other riders such as Sastre would become contenders because they would no longer have been domestiques.

I still don't think he's out of the reckoning especially if Contador is absent . I do think he blew the 2008 Tour though - OK maybe with hindsight but tactically he got it wrong on Alpe D'Huez.

wicked

calvjones wrote:

wicked wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

I've looked before... here's who beat Evans in the recent GT's when he did well.

TdF
2005: Armstrong, Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo, Vinokourov, Leipheimer, Mike Rasmussen, EVANS
2006: Pereiro, Kloden, Sastre, EVANS
2007: Contador, EVANS
2008: Sastre, EVANS

Vuelta:
2007: Menchov, Sastre, Samuel Sanchez, EVANS
2009: Valverde, Sanchez, EVANS

Now, remove those names that have been either busted or implicated in doping programs, and see what Evans palmares could really have looked like by now. And people wonder sometimes why he seems a bit grumpy?

Nice bit of research there. Unfortunately this only works if Evans is clean. How do you know he is clean? I see a lot of posters on here talking about him as if its an absolute fact he has never doped and every other GT contender has!
The man had his golden chance in 2008 and even then he managed to fluff his lines and lose to Sastre. How the hell is he going to beat Basso a man he could not ascend with in the Giro, he certainly is going to struggle against baby Schleck.

Nice bit of selective memory there. Evans lost against Sastre + FS + AS. After a pretty horrible crash in the 1st week.

Given how much he'll cane AS in the ITT he has to hope BMC can stay with Lee-o-pard in the TTT (not such a forlorn hope) and only lose, what 90secs in the hills? Perfectly possible, (if not necessarily probable).

The Parcours of all the big 3 GTs have largely been far more mountainous and less ITTish in recent years which has been a serious disadvantage for Cuddles.


Almost staying with the juicy pair of Bertie and Ras is pretty impressive if he's not juiced.

If he is, I'm off home.

You sure of that? Evans is not the time trialler he once was and AS is improving all the time, doubt he will be caned by Evans.

dougzz

What might have been is a difficult game to play, races wouldn't work out the same way, you can't just remove people and assume others would move up.

As for Valverde in '09, I still don't get why anyone would think he was clean. He was a total proven doper, he then used legal get out to avoid the just punishment for the doping. What study has there been on the long term benefits from doping? For all we know the benefit lasts years, the extra training it allowed him quite possibly pays back for longer than the eventual ban.

thegibdog

I think, like others, I didn't particularly take to Cadel when I first saw him race, he had quite a negative racing style and came across as someone with an anger management issue. However, knowing what I know now, I think both those are pretty understandable.

Tom Butcher

I don't think it's a case of assuming Valverde was clean in 2009 - just not being able to assume he was doping. As with all of them, including Evans, it's a judgement call.

Arkibal

nick hanson wrote:

josame wrote:

gotcha ... I was a bit confused as puerto was 2006/7
interesting that he said 'riders'

As far as I can recal,with Valverde,was Contador,who aided with the attack on Evans.

Interesting, Contador didn't ride the -09 Vuelta...

I do like the new attacking Evans, instead of the wheelsucking one.
Just a bit concerned that he is riding for Rihs and Jim O. , after what FLandis said.
But hey, there's no quilty by assumption when it concerns one's favorite rider...

iainf72

Arkibal wrote:

I do like the new attacking Evans, instead of the wheelsucking one.

I'd say the wheel sucking Cadel is somewhat a myth.

dougzz

Tom Butcher wrote:

I don't think it's a case of assuming Valverde was clean in 2009 - just not being able to assume he was doping. As with all of them, including Evans, it's a judgement call.

I agree. But I'll put a lot more trust in Cadel, than Valverde. My judgement is that when a guy uses every possible legal means as did Valverde to avoid the results of his cheating, he clearly sees nothing wrong in the cheating and therefore would not stop cheating he'd just be more careful to not get caught. Hence I don't see why he'd be clean.

Le Commentateur

"I'm sure I've been beaten by cheats before – I know I have – and I'm sure I'll be beaten by cheats in the future. So I just go and do the best Tour I can and people who believe in me and people who know me respect me for that. Otherwise, 'Oh well, I did my best' and my conscience, I'm very happy with that. I just race my bike and do the best I can."

jerry3571

Cyclists talk; does anyone really think someone who can win some of the biggest races in the world and not be doping when most others, possibly all, seem to be doping. If so then can you send me two free tickets for 2 weeks in Mauritius as me and my partner are in desperate need; I have to go and see my ...um...sick Gran; thanks; can the flight be in 1st class flight with 5 Star accommodation. :twisted:



-Jerry

dougzz

jerry3571 wrote:

Cyclists talk; does anyone really think someone who can win some of the biggest races in the world and not be doping when most others, possibly all, seem to be doping. If so then can you send me two free tickets for 2 weeks in Mauritius as me and my partner are in desperate need; I have to go and see my ...um...sick Gran; thanks; can the flight be in 1st class flight with 5 Star accommodation. :twisted:



-Jerry

I think a dope free rider can win, I really do. The testing now is not perfect, but it's much better and the risk of discovery (hehehe) is greater than say 2000ish. Much of the info around now concerns micro-dosing and other more (possibly) limited techniques. I think that doping hasn't gone away, but is less effective because of improved testing, such as the CERA test. So yes, right now I think it's possible for a clean rider to win.

PS. The tickets are in the post