Headset query

ew77

Hi Guys

I've recently purchased 2010 Stumpjumper FSR Elite which comes with a Cane Creek VP-A62ACM headset.

When I come to replace the headset I'd like to consider all makes, can anyone give me an idea of what I need to be looking for? On the Specialized website it just states "Campy style cartridge bearings for integrated alloy HT".

From what I've seen on the web, do I need an integrated headset? I'm quite a fan of Ritchey products, and looking on their website they do a WCS integrated headset, in either a 'campy' diameter, or a 'cane creek' diameter which has confused me even more, as I appear to have a 'campy style headset' made by Cane Creek!!

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, EW77

cooldad

Have you looked on the Cane Creek website for specs?

ew77

I've been on the Cane Creek website, and I can't find any information on the headset that I have.
However, there is a 'Headset Fit Finder' area. On insertion of my bike details, I apparently require a IS42/28.6, IS42/30 Italian Integrated IS Standard.

Still doesn't really mean too much to me, and on looking at bike part websites there doesn't appear to be much details with regards to this information to allow me to be confiedent in purchasing a replacement.

nicklouse

all explained here http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12758049

IS is integrated so I would just pull the bearings out and see what is on them and order more.

ew77

nicklouse,

Many thanks for the heads up on the headset thread! Feel a little more confident about what I need, though after reading up a little more it appears this standardizing is taking a little while to filter through, hence why bike part websites don't yet fully indicate all these details when selling goods..... which is what confused me to start with.

Thanks again

ew77

Still struggling on this one! :roll:

Contacted Specialized UK who have told me it is a 36/45 Campy style headset. Though all the campy style headsets I can find online only have 45/45 bearings. Specialized even sent me through some replacement bearings FOC (marked up MH-P08F (dia41.8x8x45deg))

Have taken out the bearings on the actual bike which are marked up MH-P08 (dia41.8x6.5x45deg). I'm assuming that because they only have 45 marked on them that they are more likely to be 45/45 type.

But this makes me wonder if specialized have sent the wrong ones as the stack height is different (8mm instead of 6.5mm) and the 'f' in the bearing spec is different also!

Anyone else with a 2010 Specialized SJ FSR bought a replacement headset that fits, if so can they let me know which one it was and what the spec was! I'm confused....

supersonic

36/45 Campag standard does not exist - they are 45/45.

I would get back on to Specialized and tell them of your dillemna and the different depth bearing (which will fit, but their will be gaps that the seals do not cover)

nicklouse

supersonic wrote:

36/45 Campag standard does not exist - they are 45/45.

I would get back on to Specialized and tell them of your dillemna and the different depth bearing (which will fit, but their will be gaps that the seals do not cover)

BUT the IS integrated is "36-45" 45 on the frame and 36 on the race.

as it is integrated it could be called Campy Style which is very annoying.

any way the Parktools webby has been updated with the SHIS terms.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... -standards

supersonic

It still may be a genuine Campy 45/45 for 41.8 - the bearing even has 41.8 on it according to the one he removed. IS 36/45 is 41.0mm.

But is confusing!

omegas

My 2008 FSR is listed as the same headset on the specialized web as your 2010

I removed mine measured up and checked it for size on the Crane Creek web site and fitted this one.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=7388

supersonic

That's a standard external cup heasdset though, way different! Seems Spesh are a bit loose with descriptions then lol.

omegas

supersonic wrote:

That's a standard external cup heasdset though, way different! Seems Spesh are a bit loose with descriptions then lol.

Yes you’re correct supersonic, just had another look and 2010 is listed:

Campy style cartridge bearings for integrated alloy HT

2008 is listed

1 1/8" threadless, alloy cups w/ 10mm insertion, sealed cartridge bearing

All I can suggest is to remove it and measure up and you should find what size you are looking for on the Crane creek web site.
I can remember taking mine apart and the labelling on it I could find nothing the same even though it had a part number etched on it.

ew77

It does appear that any 'proper' campag headsets are 45/45 and are 41.8 outside diameter. It also states that 36 is now obsolete? My bearings definately have outside diameter of 41.8, so I guess it is 'proper' campy rather than campy 'style'.

The second number of 45 seems the critical angle, as that is the angle provided on the frame, which appears to be 45 degrees in either case. I guess that as the first number either relates to the fork race or the top insert, then if buying a complete new headset these parts (fork race, top insert) would be renewed and hence suit the headset rather than the frame?

The problem then is knowing the depth of the bearings is correct, i.e 6.5mm in the case of the existing bearings, as like supersonic says, if too deep will cause gaps between the top cap seals and frame!

The mind boggles - not like it used to be when you new a standard 1.1/8th cup style headset would generally fit no problems.....

I think the guy at specialized only sent me the bearings to shut me up as I'd been sending a few mails about my confusion. Not sure how he'll be if I go back and tell him they're now the wrong ones!!

supersonic

Campagnolo hiddenset is 45/45 - 41.8mm. No other standard for that.

The problem as you suggest, is the bearing depth. It will work, but will open up gaps. You need to pursue this angle with Spesh.

ew77

Thanks supersonic.

I've now e mailed specialized uk (again) querying the bearing depth, and shall see if the guy pulls his hair out at another e mail from me! I suspect he thought he had heard the last from me by sending through some spare parts (free of charge which can't be grumbled at but makes it harder to go back again!).

Oh well, if you don't ask, you don't get.....and at the end of the day (free or not) the parts don't appear to be correct.

Cheers

EW77

ew77

Just out of interest, I dismantled the headset and tried the deeper bearing in the top just in case the top cap that came from Specialized was a different shape and covered the extra depth..... But no joy, as supersonic rightly pointed out, there was a gap between frame and seal.

Guess the bearings could be useful in an emergency, but not for long term use.

I'll await a reply from Specialized UK..... If they can't get it right though what chance do I have...!!

In the meantime I have spotted these from superstar:

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=438

They're 7mm deep which I guess may be just about acceptable...

ew77

Just sussed out on these that the extra bearing depth actually goes into the frame, as the extra depth is on the angled section, the vertical section of the bearing is the same dimension.

The recess in the bearings for the 'centering wedge' is deeper though. It appears that the centering wedge on the replacement headset was too tall, hence the gap.

Specialized came good in the end though and sent some replacement bearings that matched those already in there!

zelak999

Hi
I currently have the same issue.
The races have rusted beyond belief on both inner and outer faces.
I would like to upgrade to decent bearings or preferably a new complete set.
Cane Creek recommended the 110 series IS but i would prefer a HOPE headset.
Does anyone know if the HOPE integrated will fit the Stumpy FSR Expert?
Seems a bit bizarre that a major player like Spesh have specced a rare headset in the first place!?!?!?!?!
What detail was on the races that specialized finally sent you?

ew77

As per post above, the bearings that were in there are MH-P08 (dia41.8x6.5x45deg), and that is what Specialized eventually sent through.

Have enquired already and Hope do not make a campy style (41.8 OD) integrated headset, only the smaller diameter version.

mattv

Just spoke to Extra UK, people who do cane creek in the UK. Part code for e bearings is CBAA0174K.

zelak999

I fitted the HOPE integrated headset re using the cane creek top cover back in December 2010, done about 800 miles in all weather/conditions and have had no trouble since. The HOPE bottom seal is excellent.

ew77

Just as an update, as this thread has been added to recently, I bought one of these ritchey headsets in the end:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=39380

10mm top cap 1.1/8 version. Fitted no problems.....