Compulsory helmet law proposed in Northern Ireland

Daz555
Daz555 Posts: 3,976
edited March 2011 in MTB general
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/cyclehelmetbill

Anyone who feels that helmet wear should remain a personal choice, can you please sign this petition. I for one am a cyclist who does wear a helmet when needed but I would always wish to retain that choice.

Let's keep the nanny state out of our lives as much as possible!

Here is the Bike Radar link: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... t_comments
You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
«13

Comments

  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    I'm fine with a helmet law. Keep the chavs off the roads.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    cooldad wrote:
    I'm fine with a helmet law. Keep the chavs off the roads.
    This is actually one of the problems with the law. Probably end up being regarded as indirectly descriminatory to specific groups of people.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    Daz555 wrote:
    I for one am a cyclist who does wear a helmet when needed but I would always wish to retain that choice.
    Unfortunately and with all due respect, you and the rest of us have no choice in the matter.

    Once legislation is introduced to protect society's muppets from themselves, the government are released from any liability or responsibility and can simply say 'we told you so'.

    Sad indictment of modern society but if it means saving money, it'll happen.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    As much as I am not opposed to wearing helmets, I hate laws that exist simply to babysit people. Let helmets be a personal choice. What's the actual reason for introducing a law?
  • captainfly
    captainfly Posts: 1,001
    I certainy think a helmet law for under 18s would be a good idea, but for adults it should be a personal choice, however in the the event of a collision the lack of a helmet should be taken into consideration with any any proceedings. I tend to wear a ful face as a matter of course as I wouldn't want to face plant without one.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
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    Why are MTB economics; spend twice as much as you intended, but only half as much as you wish you could afford? :roll:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    captainfly wrote:
    I tend to wear a ful face as a matter of course as I wouldn't want to face plant without one.
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm an ugly fugger, so I hope one day I will faceplant in just the right way that it makes me so beautiful that I'll have the same effect on women as the guy from the Lynx advert.
  • Where are my stabilisers?
    Where are my stabilisers? Posts: 979
    It's no different to laws making people wear seat belts in cars and motorcyclists wearing helmets. After the law is introduced it will become second nature to the next generation and I don't have a problem with that... It's not a big issue for me.
    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... lurLT2.jpg

    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... c611a8.jpg
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    It's no different to laws making people wear seat belts in cars and motorcyclists wearing helmets.
    But those annoy me too. If it's ME who's going to get hurt, let ME decide.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    It's no different to laws making people wear seat belts in cars and motorcyclists wearing helmets. After the law is introduced it will become second nature to the next generation and I don't have a problem with that... It's not a big issue for me.
    Or it could permanently reduce the % of people who cycle. Not something we want to risk right now, surely?
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    If it's ME who's going to get hurt, let ME decide.
    YOU can't be trusted to make that decision. Neither can I or anyone else for that matter. We have to be protected from ourselves.
  • Where are my stabilisers?
    Where are my stabilisers? Posts: 979
    Or it could permanently reduce the % of people who cycle. Not something we want to risk right now, surely?

    Do you honestly believe that?

    People who don't want to wear a helmet, still wont wear a helmet... Just as those who don't like wearing seat belts, don't wear seat belts! There's your personal choice, it's still there - don't get caught. :D

    I'm totally up for it being a factor in injury cases - If someone hits you and you're not wearing a helmet, the responsibility needs to be accounted for.
    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... lurLT2.jpg

    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... c611a8.jpg
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    Do you honestly believe that?.
    Sustrans and CTC insist that this has been the case in other countries where compulsory helmet law has been introduced.

    Stats from Oz and NZ seem to support this.
    .blitz wrote:
    YOU can't be trusted to make that decision. Neither can I or anyone else for that matter. We have to be protected from ourselves.
    +1

    Scary isn't it? That this thought permeates through our society and polical system. :cry:
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    If somebody hits you, it's their fault, regardless of any helmet involved. Wearing a helmet isn't going to stop people crashing into you.

    See, the smoking ban was fine (in most ways), because it really DID affect other people, not just the smokers. However, I reckon the right should have been given to independent venues to CHOOSE whether to ban smoking. There are places like our studio, which were self-governing - if a singer didn't smoke, but the rest of the band did, then they'd go outside for a fag/spliff.
    But if everyone in the band smoked, then they (and I) would have a fag in the studio. The air con is on all the time anyway, so by the time somebody else comes in for a session, the air is cleaned again, and it was the band's choice again.

    BUT, these laws force us all to comply, whether it makes sense or not. It's just stupid. Why does there have to be a BLACK and WHITE in all these things, when life is all shades of grey?

    What I'd applaud is a government that would just stop ridiculous litigation cases, and encourage everyone to be responsible for their actions, not try and find a scapegoat for everything.
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    Before helmets are made compulsory there would have to be some mechanism in place to indentify those who flaunt the law and I for one am not putting a registration plate on my bike.
  • MountainMonster
    MountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    The laws are not there to protect people, that's just their guise. The only reason laws are brought into play such as these ones are brought into the books is because the government realises it's free money for them, and they don't have to do much except hand out sheets of paper and wait for it in their account.

    They don't give a rats ass about the people it "protects." At the end of the day, I don't know a single person who if they crash their motorbike while not wearing a helmet, is going to turn around and sue the city or state because of it. But it's in the law books to make money. The government is just one big business bending "it's beloved citizens" over backwards and taking everything theyve got.
    My London Road
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    Good to see everyone kicking off against legislation this afternoon. Hopefully we can start a revolution.
  • MountainMonster
    MountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    .blitz wrote:
    Good to see everyone kicking off against legislation this afternoon. Hopefully we can start a revolution.

    On it, ennit.
    My London Road
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    It's no different to laws making people wear seat belts in cars and motorcyclists wearing helmets. After the law is introduced it will become second nature to the next generation and I don't have a problem with that... It's not a big issue for me.

    Mmm. Well maybe. Certainly the arguments against are much the same. But the evidence for the effectiveness of pushbike helmets is pretty weak. I believe that helmets can be of benefit in a crash, but, I don't believe that it's been adequately proven that this is the case, and in the absence of solid proof there's not really a good case for compulsion.

    the other counterargument I like is the net health benefit- death from preventable head injuries while cycling isn't that high, but the health benefits of cycling at all are pretty solid, so a helmet law doesn't have to deter many people from riding for it to work out a detrimental effect on overall health- less people die from head trauma, more people die from heart disease or similiar.
    MountainMonster wrote:
    The laws are not there to protect people, that's just their guise. The only reason laws are brought into play such as these ones are brought into the books is because the government realises it's free money for them, and they don't have to do much except hand out sheets of paper and wait for it in their account.

    How does this make the government money?
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Where are my stabilisers?
    Where are my stabilisers? Posts: 979
    Daz555 wrote:
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    Do you honestly believe that?.
    Sustrans and CTC insist that this has been the case in other countries where compulsory helmet law has been introduced.

    Stats from Oz and NZ seem to support this.

    I'm surprised by that TBH, I find it hard to believe that anyone would put their bike away just because they had to wear a helmet, but if that's the fact then I'm genuinely shocked!

    I can't believe that people have such an issue with putting a helmet on - I know personal choice is one thing, but to stop riding because of it? Crazy - cutting your nose off to spite your face :shock:

    I'd expect people to break the law by not wearing a helmet, but I wouldn't expect people to give up riding? I don't get it :D
    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... lurLT2.jpg

    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... c611a8.jpg
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    edited March 2011
    Where are my stabilisers? wrote:
    I'd expect people to break the law by not wearing a helmet, but I wouldn't expect people to give up riding? I don't get it :D
    I suppose it is because the vast majority of people are not "cyclists". Most people just happen to ride a bike from time to time.

    I have a mate for example who only ever rides his old clapped out bike when he takes his car to the garage (seriously) - he sticks it in the boot and then rides home to save taxi fare. Oh he pops down to the pub on it as well from time to time on days when he has pissed his wife off and she won't give him a lift. :lol: I doubt he'd bother to buy a cycle helmet.

    My wife has ridden about once in 5 years. We popped out the other day during a brief moment of sunshine for a quick ride down the Bristol Portway before stopping off for a pint on the way back. Would it be worth buying a helmet in her case or would it just be better if she never rode a bike again?
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Course, fitting's essential... Will the folks with the £50 supermarket bikes spend the time and money on a good quality, well fitting helmet or will they get the cheapest one they can find then balance/squeeze it on top of their heads? That's the group that's most likely to ride helmetless anyway so if it the law doesn't work well for them, it doesn't work at all.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Lapierre t 400
    Lapierre t 400 Posts: 654
    It seems like another health and safety idea thought up by an idiot to bring more monies into the goverment coffers.
    God can you imagine being nicked for not wearing a helmet,its just stupid.
    I assume this is French petrol - be careful in reverse - the car will retreat rapidly at the least provocation.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Lapierre t 400 wrote:
    It seems like another health and safety idea thought up by an idiot to bring more monies into the goverment coffers.

    How does it make them money? Enforcement will be a drain on resources not a cash cow.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Northwind wrote:
    How does it make them money?
    I'm curious about this too.
  • tenfoot
    tenfoot Posts: 226
    Northwind wrote:
    Lapierre t 400 wrote:
    It seems like another health and safety idea thought up by an idiot to bring more monies into the goverment coffers.

    How does it make them money? Enforcement will be a drain on resources not a cash cow.

    Resources better spent on improved cycling facilities rather than enforcement of a hard to enforce law.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Yup yup. Or trying to improve driving standards and cycling awareness.

    Has there been any campaign previously in NI to increase helmet wearing? Seems a more sensible place to start.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • sfichele
    sfichele Posts: 605
    This type of legislation sucks. Its all wrong! It should be about education and information. People can make their own choices.

    I'm someone who never wore a helmet for a long time and spent my childhood without a lid on my head. I initially resisted wearing a helmet but was eventually persuaded and now I think its a good thing to wear it with the increased risk from motorons. Its better to make the decision yourself.

    I'd hate to see this type of thing actually being enforced, with resources needlessly spent and fining people and children, because when it comes to enforcing other things like carrying small amounts of drugs or dropping litter etc. the police couldn't give a rats!

    We need more awareness of bikes end of! Then we'll get less accidents! Helmets wont protect kids from being squashed by lorries.

    The other day I rode to work and somehow I'd forgotten to put my helmet on due to rushing out of the house. If I'd been fined for that I would have been fecking livid.
    BMC: http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12749451
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    sfichele wrote:
    We need more awareness of bikes end of! Then we'll get less accidents! Helmets wont protect kids from being squashed by lorries.

    That goes both ways o'course, the standard of cycling on the road round here is appalling.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Northwind wrote:
    the standard of cycling on the road round here is appalling.
    Same here.
    There's a lot of cyclists here that seem to think they should be given precedence above all else. We all SHARE the roads, not borrow them from cyclists.
  • Briggo
    Briggo Posts: 3,537
    Dont get me started on the amount of retarded cyclists that totally disregard even the basic of safety measures such as a red light...

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