folding bike advice

cycling psychologist

Hi All,

I'm a newbie and pretty technically dumb! Having applied for new job that will increase my daily cycle from 15ish miles a day to about 22, I think it may be time to stop trying to push my rather heavy folding raleigh swift up hills! I have been using it for about 6 months but it isn't the easiest ride and I'd like to upgrade to a folder that is less likely to make my knees cry. Having had a look about I am completely confused!

I will have a budget of about £500 and wonder if:
a - is this enough?
b - how do I choose one for a moderately hilly 9 mile road ride

Dahon bikes look like a good option but do I really need to spend £1000 or will a D7 at £400 do the job?

Any advice would be much appreciated - I have to be honest and say that the idea of going further on the swift fills me with fear!!!

Siobhan

snailracer

Realistically, a more expensive bike that's a few kg lighter won't make much difference if you are struggling up hills and your knees ache. What should make much more difference is having a low enough gear, and more expensive folders do not generally have lower gears (probably the opposite).

You can get touring/MTB cassettes with a freakishly large rear cog = ultra low gear, or get a chainring with fewer teeth = lower gears throughout, to retrofit onto your existing bike. Have a chat with a competent bike shop to see what they can do.

BTW smooth, high-pressure tyres will probably make the second-biggest difference.

jeremyrundle

+1

cycling psychologist

I suspect I will go for a new bike - one where the frame doesn't cry would be good! I am flirting with a 26 inch wheel folder, but either way it has to fold enough to go into the hull of a coach for the two hour coach journey each way, so is going to get thrown about a fair bit.

Interesting on the gear thing - I have just gone up into a higher gear on the raleigh over the last week or so and have actually found that a bit easier - no idea why!! This has also made it faster which is lovely!

I'm taking my first baby steps from Halfords - I'll be in lycra next! :-)

rhext

22 miles a day is a respectable commute. If you're doing that sort of mileage daily, I think that the most important factor is whether or not the bike fits you and is of suitable layout for long-distance riding. I'm not an expert in folding bikes, but it's pretty clear that the best ones are designed to offer similar riding positions to a 'proper' road/hybrid: so saddle/handlebars/pedals in a similar place relative to each other despite the fact that the structure linking them is very different from the usual shape for a full-size bike.

I doubt that the weight of your Swift is the problem: looking at it on the web site, it seems to me to offer a 'sit up and beg' riding position that would probably be very comfortable for pootling a short distances around town, but which I could easily imagine would be very hard on the knees over long distances.

First piece of advice would be to make sure that you've got the saddle at the right height: as an approximate rule of thumb, if you sit on the saddle, put your heel on the pedal, and push the pedal down as far as it will go, your leg should be at full extension. This means that if you're pedalling with the ball of your foot, your leg won't quite reach full extension when you're at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

If you can't do that on your Swift without the whole thing getting alarmingly creaky and flexy.....then you probably need to consider a new bike. Like I say, no expert, but there are specialists who can presumably give good advice, eg:

http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk

If it were me, I must confess I'd probably be going for something like an Airnimal as that seems to offer a decent compromise between having a good quality long-distance geometry while still being able to fold up small enough to take on a train...

MichaelW

Is this a 2x11 or 2x22mile commute.

I have a Dahon 26" folder (Cadenza 8) but I wouldn't recommend them for daily public transport use. They ride perfectly well but the fold size is just too big to be practical ans they are a bit of a handful to carry. They are good for fitting inside a car boot.

Your Raleigh Swift is a 20" aluminium-framed folder (16kg/35lbs). You loose a bit of weight with a Dahon D7 (12.5kg) and more with the Dahon Vitesse D7 (11.5kg) and get better components. The higher grade tyres add a lot of efficiency. D7 is a good machine for everyday use.

cycling psychologist

I do 8 each way atm. I think the sitting position is a good point - I don't seem to get a great deal of pull on the ral - its all in the legs ( I hope that makes some kind of sense!). In terms of the actual fold the coach will take a full sized bike but a folding one is less likely to leave me waiting for the next coach due to the first one being full - and on a 3ish hour commute each way its quite important to me!

I don't know the road conditions as yet - but its out of oxford so I reckon reasonable B road all the way there in comparison to my rather bumpy ride in leics atm! I tend to have a lot of junk to carry with me so I figured losing some weight on the frame might help a bit.

My main worry is that the more I look the more I go - ooooh shiney :-)

mroli

If your budget goes that high - I used to commute on a Dahon MuSL a similar distance and it was a joy for a folding bike. I woud rec that you get yourself to a shop where you can have a decent look at the options though - you'll be able to see exactly what you're getting for your money (if you decide to go "newer"). Investigate the cycle to work scheme. If you're in Oxford, I think Warlands on the Botley Rd have Dahons

cycling psychologist

if I get the job, but I live nowhere near the city! I believe Evans in mK has dahons so I think a trip to have a look is on the cards - I have seen the Mu XL - it is lovely!!

Thanks again folks :-)

mroli

Remember that Evans price match too Siobhan - Fudges are about the best price for Dahons by memory, so if you can't get there, Evans should at least meet their prices.
http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/

cycling psychologist

Thank you! I had no idea about that - I literally have only ever been in a halfords!

Im going to check my cycling position on the raleigh too and see how that works on my current ride.

yocto

mroli wrote:

Remember that Evans price match too Siobhan - Fudges are about the best price for Dahons by memory, so if you can't get there, Evans should at least meet their prices.
http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/

Fudges have the 2010 Speed Pro TT for £750. At this price it's a steal. My Mrs has this bicycle and commutes 20 miles per day with it. It is a great fast folding bicycle, though the ride can be quite teeth rattling (that would be the small wheels (they don't absorb bumps as well as large wheels) and the high pressure tyres). Note that the riding position will be a lot 'sportier' than your swift. Definitely try and get to a store and try a few bikes out to see what suits you.

cycling psychologist

I have adjusted my riding position, so will give that a go tomorrow - it was a big shift, so I'm quite excited about trying it out!

thank you!

Thanks for all the buying advice as well - here is hoping I get the job. I will be having a day out in MK to check out different bike types too and then we will see!

Having done 16 miles a day for the last 6 months I really don't want to give up using the bike to commute - my knees may have days where they'd like to leave home (mainly in wind!), but the rest of me loves it and my level of fitness is better than ever. So, if anyone is looking at this and thinking that maybe they'd give it a go - do you'll never look back.

I can feel a lycra shop coming on :-)

ride_whenever

I'd try a kansi... brilliant little folder.

bobinski

i commuted on one of these...
http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=57103

for a while. I loved it. not too heavy,suspension worked well on potholed roads-even more of a concern now of course-without producing a mushy bouncy ride. Just very comfortable and It felt fast. a good compromise for a small wheeled bike.

It was stolen and i miss it! I certainly wouldnt mind another..

cycling psychologist

oooh that is lovely! I do like the look of these!

mroli

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=57264 I can't believe the price of this. Just outside your budget, but the MuSLs have decent gearing, are really light and this is £+ off!

People have posted good things on here about the Kansi, which is a similar fold to the Dahon, you could also look at a Brompton (but it sounds as though size of fold is not that important to you), Airnimal which separates rather than folds and is probably a little too pricey, there are also Mezzos and Birdys, the GoCycle has an electronic "assist" and still folds (I think), but IS pricey.

And for total extravagance - the Mu Ex with £700 quid off and Sram red componentry: http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/dahon_mu_ex.html NICE!

dilemna

You have a daily 2-3 hour coach journey and then a 22 mile round cycle ride ......... blimey :shock: ! I would take another job nearer to your home as you'll spend more time travelling than working. You will be totally shagged. Also I wouldn't buy any bike until I knew I was definitely being taken on ie a signed contract of employment and even then I might wait the first few weeks or a month before getting settled then splashing out. Unless of course you have cash to burn in which case why are you working?

The perfect folding bike is a Brompton 6 spd.

stuaff

mroli wrote:

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=57264 I can't believe the price of this. Just outside your budget, but the MuSLs have decent gearing, are really light and this is £+ off!

People have posted good things on here about the Kansi, which is a similar fold to the Dahon, you could also look at a Brompton (but it sounds as though size of fold is not that important to you), Airnimal which separates rather than folds and is probably a little too pricey, there are also Mezzos and Birdys, the GoCycle has an electronic "assist" and still folds (I think), but IS pricey.

And for total extravagance - the Mu Ex with £700 quid off and Sram red componentry: http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/dahon_mu_ex.html NICE!

+1 for the Mu SL. Getting tempted to replace my Jetstream XP with one (it's still a great bike, but having stuck DualDrive on it for extra gear range, it's not as frisky as it was, and since I got the road bikes I'm not doing the big runs on it. I'm feeling inclined to get something a bit lighter ...though that EX is nice too!!

IMHO fatter tyres make more difference to most road surfaces than suspension- my XP (2004 model) has a rear shock, no front suspension- and I've been running the shock without air in it for a while, made no difference to the ride quality (40mm Marathons).

rhext

It's easy to get tempted by the shiny things, but my experience is that diminishing returns kick in pretty quickly so don't get carried away. For the sort of day you're lining yourself up for (you must want that job very much), I'd suggest that the three most important things are going to be comfort, speed and (perhaps above all) reliability.

For reliability alone, I'd be looking more towards the £500 to £1,000 price bracket. The D7 looks like a good runabout bike, but you're going to be doing 100 miles a week on it....every week. You need the wheels to stay true, the gears to work for 1,000s of miles with minimal or no maintenance etc. I'd be after a good quality drivetrain (Shimano Sora or Tiagra equivalent), decent tyres (who wants to be fixing punctures every other day), and it's got to fit you.

I'd strongly recommend you track down a couple of bike shops and go and have a chat with them: explain what you want to do and ask them how they'd approach it. There may be options you've not thought about.

I must confess, heretical though it may be on a site like this, if I were you I'd be strongly considering a motorbike......

t4tomo

I normally sing the praises of the Brompton on threads like these, but if folding ability isn't that high on your list for a 22 mile shleck, something with bigger wheels and more gears might be better.

Dilemna - I'd almost agree with you, but say 3 speed. Just choose the front cog that suits you and your ride best. Can't see the 6 speed offers anything above it with the gears being alternate, except more complexity and weight. If you really did want more gears I'd get the Kinetics 8 speed hub gear upgrade.

phillipjohnson

I recently got a Brompton and have been really pleased with it. Would really recommend them if you are looking for a folder. Go for a lower ratio gearing if you are having trouble with hills.

shouldbeinbed

I'm onto my second Birdy, I rode/ride a Birdy blue as my everyday bike and 15+ mile round trip commute on the side of the pennines, it rides and feels like a bike not a folder, as a ride it beats a Brompton every way up, I've done day long charity rides on it and towed a trailer with 2 kids for a few years.

this was before Dahon & Mezzo really jumped to prominence though and they do get good reviews for their rideability Also the Birdy is fearsomly expensive new but mine is nearly 10years old still going strong, easy to service and fettle & copes absolutely fine in my hilly terrain. 3 speed hub and 8 speed derailleur for total gear range, if anything its overgeared and easy to pop the front wheel up in granny gears its got suspension front and back which is surprisingly good and a nice range of accessories inc a wheeled rack for when folded if you need to move it much further than a lift on and off a train platform.

the main drawback (hough I've not experienced problems with spares etc ) seems to be Riese & Muller being difficult for retailers to deal with which makes them a bit tougher to find nowadays

cycling psychologist

Rhext - thank you so much for the seating advice - it has made an amazing difference, my knees are signing not crying!! On reflection, I have spent 6 months cycling around looking like a clown on the teeniest BMX!! I am now high and happy! It is absolutely stunning the difference it has made - and I'm so much quicker!

Dilemma - yes, I am a glutton for punishment My current commute ranges between 2-21/2 hours with a 16 mile round cycle. The job I want is really good and I figure I can sleep on the coach rather than dragging the bike up and down stairs at stations and waiting for delayed trains. I won't be upgrading until I actually get a job and try out the ride on the little raleigh a few times to make sure I don't die!! :-).

Thank you all for the suggestions about bike types, it is really helpful to hear what others have enjoyed riding. I only learn't to ride a few years ago, so didn't go through the bike stage as a kid - in other words I'm clueless (although I have worked out how to fix V brakes recently!).

I will update on both job and bike purchase :-)

dilemna

t4tomo wrote:

I normally sing the praises of the Brompton on threads like these, but if folding ability isn't that high on your list for a 22 mile shleck, something with bigger wheels and more gears might be better.

Dilemna - I'd almost agree with you, but say 3 speed. Just choose the front cog that suits you and your ride best. Can't see the 6 speed offers anything above it with the gears being alternate, except more complexity and weight. If you really did want more gears I'd get the Kinetics 8 speed hub gear upgrade.

You obviously haven't ridden a Brompton over the Marie Blanc, Soulor, Aubisque and Tourmalet. 6 is better than 3 believe me .

the_hundredth_idiot

Threadjacking alert ...

I've signed up for Ride2Work again - my £1,000 Evans voucher should be with me in April. I'm getting a Brompton with it - but I'm dithering between the S2L or the M3L (or even the M2L or the S3L)

My rationale is that I moved out of London in December (boo - SWMBO made me) and now get the train everyday. My fixie is gathering rust (metaphorically) in the garage, although my road bike's tyres have been pumped up ready for some spring rides in the South Downs.

My train comes into London Bridge which is convenient at the moment as my office is walking distance from the station. But my office is moving to Liverpool Street in the summer - more like a 25 min walk from London Bridge in the morning which, coupled with the train journey and getting to the station in my town, means a long commute overall.

So I'm getting a Brompton which I reckon should save me about 45 mins of walking a day (including 10 mins saving from home to station and back). Plus it means I get to do a bit of bike commuting again - I really miss my cycle to work and back - Southern trains are pretty grim in comparison.

The M3L is the classic Brompton, but I prefer the look of the S2L. The S2L is also lighter. (And easier to fix rear punctures, apparently.)

But will the leaning forward position of the S2L be a bit of a pain given I'll probably be wearing a suit or as I ride rather than cycling kit? Also, will I regret not getting the slightly more flexible gearing of the M3L? I'm sure the S2L gearing will be just dandy for the cycle to work and back, but I can see the Brommie getting put to wider use on holidays and, say, for my wife to ride around on as she doesn't currently have a bike. I might well be happy with the S2L for my commute but my wife might resent the lack of the extra gear when pootling around parks with the kids on a weekend.

cycling psychologist

Oh please, threadjack away :-). I'm afraid I can't comment on the brompton, I have always been a little scared of the teeny wheeny wheels!

I have now procured a dahon vitesse 7 gear from my local auction house - I walked in on Saturday and there she was, looking in need of a bit of love, a clean and a new brake line and we were off. The gears are a bit all over the place, but the power of the internet and a little tool and I'm hoping they will be better on tomorrow's ride.

I have fallen head over heels in love, the difference in the commute is indescribable, and if the interview goes well (I got one!!!! :-) ), then I'll be more than happy to give the longer route a go - hills and all!

thank you all for the help and advice! Now back to the bromptons....

S :-)

phillipjohnson

Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase Cycling Psychologist :-) Nothing like a nice new toy to make the riding more enjoyable. Hope you get the job... if you don't then at least you have a new bike anyway now!

Back to the Bromptons though :-) I recently had to make the same choice S2L or M3L and I went for the M3L with no regrets. The S2L is a little lighter but not a huge amount. The 3 hub gears are pretty well ranged and I've not found myself finding myself needing anything above or below their range.

If you plan to push yourself into a hard sweat every day and beat your average speed day after day then I would go for the S2L.... if you want the bike to get from a to b in a reasonable time without being too sweaty sitting on the train then go for the M3L. That would be my advice.

popularname

Just a thought Cycling Psychologist - I use bar ends on my Brompton and they make a huge difference to the ride position. Dunno if the Vitesse fold will allow them, but it might be worth checking.

Enjoy your new baby.

cycling psychologist

philipjohnson - you are absolutely right - she will be with me even if the job doesn't work out - and for £20 she didn't even break the bank :-)

Popularname - I have a backside of steel!....... and an armchairy type seat :-) The seat is on a dahon vitesse.

rhext

cycling psychologist wrote:

philipjohnson - you are absolutely right - she will be with me even if the job doesn't work out - and for £20 she didn't even break the bank :-)

Popularname - I have a backside of steel!....... and an armchairy type seat :-) The seat is on a dahon vitesse.

You should get that upgraded to carbon fibre or Titanium: might make you even faster up the hills ;-)