revelations dual air lockout

speedy21

hi , had my first ride today on my new revelations and the lockout was hopeless,
does the positive and negative air pressure affect how good the lockout will work or will the lockout work the same all the time regardless of what pressures your running, it was bobbing under pedaling and bracking etc,

and also would the rebound affect how the lockout works as i forgot to have a fiddle with the rebound cos i was playing so much with the gate and compression,
just to clarify i had full gate + turned clockwise and the same for the compression turned all the way to lockout but it was bobbing about, ive read that they leak and cause this but i doubt thats the case with me as they are new so im hopeing theres something im missing,
the pressures where set equally in the +ve and -ve,
am i right in thinking that reducing the negative pressure could reduce bobbing when pedaling,
sorry to ask a question thats probably been asked before but most the posts im finding similar are forks that arent new and probably need a service,
the only way ive got them pretty stiff so far is a high +ve and a low - bu i think thats because it was so high and low that it sort of made the lockout redundant ,
oops sorry for the essay , thanks for any ideas if your still reading this far :idea: its complicated stuff

supersonic

How much bob? Is there no extra resistance?

The system still allows a small amount of travel (around 20-30mm) even when fully locked. This aids traction. So if you are honking out of the saddle, the fork will return to full extension from sag, then to sag extra so a little bob will always be there.

Matt 24k

The gate + and - controls when the lockout is by passed. So if you had the gate fully open then the lock out would blow very easily. Read the manual again because there is an internal or external compression/gate depending on the model of Revs and you need to set it up correctly. If you haven't got a manual download one but in the meantime put the gate in the middle, that is 2 full turns from either full + or full -, and see how the lock out feels then.

speedy21

hi super,it seemed like more than that but it was my first time on a suspension fork so maybe it felt worse than it was as im no used to it, there was extra resistance but when i went to go down some steep steps it dipped quite a bit , the gate was on full so from what i understand i thought that it wouldnt do that with the gate on, or am i not understanding gate properly

speedy21

hi matt, i have the gate and compression on top of the right stantion so does that mean that i have the external ones or could i still have internal aswell

supersonic

You have external Floodgate adjustment - this sets the required to overcome the lockout as Matt says.

Possibly there is a slight problem if you are getting excessive movement. I would let the forks bed in (sometimes the oil needs to settle from storage), and if you are still having problems, take to a mechanic to test.

speedy21

good idea il get a few miles in on them first and go from there, thanks for the help both hopefully get it sorted soon, appreciate the help, cheers,

Matt 24k

The lock out will still allow a little movement even when full on. If you hit stairs with the lock out on, it should by pass and allow more movement to stop damaging the forks and or you.
Your forks will take some bedding in so keep and eye on the static sag as you normally need to run more + and - pressure as things bed in.
All the info you need is in the manual including a drawing to identify the internal or external compression/ lock out ring on top of the right fork leg.
RTFM works every time.

BG2000

I was thrown a bit when I first got my RockShox as my previous Marzocchis had full lockout. It thought there was a fault at first with my Revelations until someone told me they're supposed to 'blow-out' when I hit a bump.

The +ve and -ve dual air pressures are nothing to do with lockout (they're on the opposite leg), although if you stiffen up travel by increasing +ve pressure, then it'll take a little bit more to bypass the lockout. So the dual air spring is sort of affecting lockout.

I'm not sure which manual people are referring to. My Revelations didn't come with one, and I've yet to see anything on the SRAM website that actually explains all the controls and their relation to each other. Just something that explains what the floodgate does would be lovely !

supersonic

This is the manual which explains Floodgate:

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/95- ... 0print.pdf

speedy21

hi guys thanks for the rest of the replies but after reading and going for another look at the forks ive discovered that the -ve side doesnt hold any air for more than 20 or 30 mins, ive tried it 3 times now tonight and it goes from 80psi to zero in half an hour, this wasn't the case yesterday it was holding air fine last night , so i thought id ask on here before i send them back if theres anything obvious to solve this or if its a warranty issue? as you might have guessed pulling them apart is a bit beyond my skills
p.s. the +ve seems to be holding air just fine
thanks

supersonic

The negative air chamber is much smaller than the positive - simply attaching the pump in some cases will cause a lot of the air to deflate.

This has nothoing to do with the lockout, in fact no negative air will make the fork harder to move at the beginning of the stroke.

Release all the negative air. Release all the positive air. Fill positve chamber to 125 psi, negative to 140psi. Compress the fork a few times. Measure the amount of visible stanchion. Leave over night. Compress the forks a few times again. If there is more stanchion showing now, then you have a negative leak.

speedy21

thanks super il get onto it , if it turns out that there is a leak should i send them back for replacement?, cheers

supersonic

Yep! Warranty job.

speedy21

thanks very much, just done what u said so il have a check tommoro, ta

BG2000

supersonic wrote:

This is the manual which explains Floodgate:

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/95- ... 0print.pdf

Thanks for that. I was sort of hoping for an explanation from SRAM about BlackBox damping, but the doc you've pointed me to seems to cover everything I need to know about tweeking it.

This document should help explain things to speed21 as well, i.e. the order in which you set things up.

Regards, Ben.

supersonic

Have a tinker: I have further tuning tips if you need them, the MoCo unit with Floodgate has some hidden tricks

speedy21

think you were right super i left it over night , a full day nearly and when i attached the pump it was down to 80 psi from 140 which is down to attaching the pump probably so thanks very much for that saved me a lot of bother, the thing that threw me was the fact that with only 60 or 70psi in there to start with when i reattached the pump the escaping air made no noise at all , and it was quiet where i was but if its still up that high over night then there cant be a leak.
yes ben that does help i couldnt find anything when i was searching the sram site but i came across this if its any use to you but dont think theres anything on it thats not on the sram one tho but may aswell post it,
http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title= ... _Air_Forks
cheers

Northwind

speedy21 wrote:

when i reattached the pump the escaping air made no noise at all , and it was quiet where i was

It's not exactly escaping- what happens is when you attach the pump, some of the air from the fork pressurises the pump itself- so when you connect it up it's like you're pumping air back out. And since the negative chamber's tiny, it takes a lot of its air to pressurise the pump.

BG2000

speedy21 wrote:

think you were right super i left it over night , a full day nearly and when i attached the pump it was down to 80 psi from 140 which is down to attaching the pump probably so thanks very much for that saved me a lot of bother, the thing that threw me was the fact that with only 60 or 70psi in there to start with when i reattached the pump the escaping air made no noise at all , and it was quiet where i was but if its still up that high over night then there cant be a leak.
yes ben that does help i couldnt find anything when i was searching the sram site but i came across this if its any use to you but dont think theres anything on it thats not on the sram one tho but may aswell post it,
http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title= ... _Air_Forks
cheers

Thanks for the link speedy - it's always good to see all explanations.

One thing I would recommend is Topeak's DXG pump:

http://www.topeak.com/products/Pumps/PocketShockDXG

The double cavity connector means you can really control the pressure you're putting into the forks, and the loss when disconnecting is minimal (I reckon about 1 psi for +ve and 3psi for -ve). If you can predict the loss when disconnecting, you can overcompensate when topping up.

I'm not assuming your pump isn't any good - but the above item is definately a good investment.

Northwind

No shock pump should lose any pressure at all when you disconnect :? Not fit for purpose if it does.

speedy21

ahh thanks northwind that explains a lot and put my mind at rest,definitely no leak now then. im skint as skint gets for now ben so cant go upgrading for a while il have to use the 1 that came with it for now im afraid but it should be fine for now now that i know its gonna loose so much air when i reconnect, time to start experimenting now then, could be painful.
thanks very much guys