Setting up Planet X Brakes

dru
dru Posts: 1,341
edited August 2015 in Road beginners
Hi people,

I have a set of Ultra Light FORGED Brake Callipers from Planet X on my bike and they seem to be a bit wobbly.

Is there any trick to 'tightening' them up - I'm worried about overtightening them, or tightening the wrong bit.

Does anyone have any instructions or handy hints on what I should be doing?

Thanks,

Dru.

Comments

  • hopper1
    hopper1 Posts: 4,389
    Once tightened into the frame, they shouldn't be wobbly.
    The trick with these brakes is in the alignment.
    There are two grub screws on the main shaft to loosen off, before centring the brakes...
    PM to follow...
    Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    hopper1 wrote:
    Once tightened into the frame, they shouldn't be wobbly.
    The trick with these brakes is in the alignment.
    There are two grub screws on the main shaft to loosen off, before centring the brakes...
    PM to follow...

    Hopper1, I've been searching the internet for the answer to this question. I was fiddling with these brake calipers tonight and I realized that to center the brakes, you have to have a 13mm wrench on the bolt behind the brake (to adjust the centering) and a 4mm hex key on the retaining bolt (to keep the brake from loosening).

    I actually thought that I shouldn't loosen the grub screws. Maybe I have this whole adjustment thing wrong. Could you please post, or PM me with your method of centering these brakes?

    ... It's a shame Planet X doesn't provide any set up instructions with these brakes.

    thanks...

    As an aside, I'm pretty happy with the braking performance of these brakes. They feel as good as the Ultegra's that they replaced.
  • buder
    buder Posts: 154
    I contacted Planet X about lack of instructions, and they told me their mechanics were doing a video and asked me what would be helpful, I said centering so watch their website hopefully a vid might appear soon !?.

    rightly or wrongly I use the end of the big allen bolt on the front and gently turn to move it slightly, that for me works a treat. I don't fully understand how these brakes work, but they are quite powerful and very light.
  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    buder wrote:
    rightly or wrongly I use the end of the big allen bolt on the front and gently turn to move it slightly, that for me works a treat.

    You can do that or use a cone spanner on the flats behind the spring. You do not have to undo the grub screw, as has been suggested.
    I don't fully understand how these brakes work, but they are quite powerful and very light.

    I guess there is a generation now that have grown up only knowing dual pivots and so how to adjust the old style single pivot is a bit of a mystery.

    I've got a set on my road bike and find them a doddle to work with and, as you say, are pretty powerful if not quite as good as dual pivots.
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    buder wrote:
    rightly or wrongly I use the end of the big allen bolt on the front and gently turn to move it slightly, that for me works a treat. I don't fully understand how these brakes work, but they are quite powerful and very light.

    Thanks for the input gentlemen.

    I just wanted to make one comment about using the big allen bolt at the front. That's what I 'was' using to center the brakes. However, on the last adjustment that I did, when I tightened the big allen bolt to rotate the calipers clockwise, the brakes lost their spring (they would not return to their open position! I've had much better luck using the 13mm bolt behind the brake.

    Any more insights are welcomed!
  • hopper1
    hopper1 Posts: 4,389
    It's PX advice to undo the grub screws... That's why they supply a little Allen Key!
    Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!
  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    hopper1 wrote:
    It's PX advice to undo the grub screws... That's why they supply a little Allen Key!

    I am a happy customer of PX and cannot question that PX is giving people this advice but I would question the value of the advice when the sole purpose of adjusting one of the grub screws is spring tension and not spring alignment. PX is a reseller of these brakes that they buy in without instructions so why should they know any more than people with decades of general knowledge and experience of working with single pivot brakes?

    The purpose of the grub screw on the spring mount is to attach the spring mount to the main bolt , which in turn aligns the spring and caliper. You could untighten the grub screw on the spring mount, align caliper and re-tighten the grub screw by which time the alignment of the spring, spring mount, caliper and/or main bolt could have shifted out of alignment and you have to start over again.

    Alternatively, with the grub screw on the spring mount tightened to the main bolt and therefore the brake being a unitary component, use a cone spanner on the flats of the spring mount to adjust the caliper as a single unit. Too much to the left, move the whole unit a bit to the right and vice versa. No messing about untightening, adjusting and re-tightening grub screws whilst juggling with the spring and caliper.

    Hope that all makes sense.
  • buder
    buder Posts: 154
    hopper1 wrote:
    It's PX advice to undo the grub screws... That's why they supply a little Allen Key!

    Hopper is right although when PX installed my brakes they put the flat sideways so one of the grub screws is right underneath, they should have made sure its was the right way before tightening down so I could access them.

    With Hopper helping me out originally I would never know there are actually 2 grub screws as I can only see and get to the top one !.

    Rather than sort this out I use a combination of the front allen bolt gently moving it. It works for me although If you turn it to much the pad doesnt return as mentioned above.

    The grub screws are the intended way to reposition the calliper I just cant get to them.
  • buder
    buder Posts: 154
    BillyMansell wrote:
    hopper1 wrote:
    It's PX advice to undo the grub screws... That's why they supply a little Allen Key!

    I am a happy customer of PX and cannot question that PX is giving people this advice but I would question the value of the advice when the sole purpose of adjusting one of the grub screws is spring tension and not spring alignment. PX is a reseller of these brakes that they buy in without instructions so why should they know any more than people with decades of general knowledge and experience of working with single pivot brakes?

    The purpose of the grub screw on the spring mount is to attach the spring mount to the main bolt , which in turn aligns the spring and caliper. You could untighten the grub screw on the spring mount, align caliper and re-tighten the grub screw by which time the alignment of the spring, spring mount, caliper and/or main bolt could have shifted out of alignment and you have to start over again.

    Alternatively, with the grub screw on the spring mount tightened to the main bolt and therefore the brake being a unitary component, use a cone spanner on the flats of the spring mount to adjust the caliper as a single unit. Too much to the left, move the whole unit a bit to the right and vice versa. No messing about untightening, adjusting and re-tightening grub screws whilst juggling with the spring and caliper.

    Hope that all makes sense.

    Billy I think your referring to the wrong grub screws ? Hopper is referring to the grub screws on the flat just behind the calliper not the spring tension adjustment grub screws ?. Sorry if Ive got that wrong but in all there are 2 spring adjustment grubs and 2 calliper adjustment grubs albeit in different places.
  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    buder wrote:

    Billy I think your referring to the wrong grub screws ? Hopper is referring to the grub screws on the flat just behind the calliper not the spring tension adjustment grub screws ?. Sorry if Ive got that wrong but in all there are 2 spring adjustment grubs and 2 calliper adjustment grubs albeit in different places.

    Ah ok. I catch your drift.

    My misunderstanding came from thinking people were suggesting that the two grub screws behind the spring were for aligning the caliper rather than by using the grub screws to set the flats vertical from which you can then align the caliper.

    I'd set my brakes up before fitting to the bike which is why I'm slightly perplexed why people are having such problems with them.
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    Well, I think I've finally got it. I have to admit that even though the alignment (centering) of the brake was off initially, I probably made things worse when I first started trying to fix it.

    I decided to sit down and a really figure out how these brakes are put together. I took the brake apart just to figure out what the bolts are actually doing.

    First observation - That big shiny allen bolt on the front is used to keep the calipers together. Loosening that allen bolt creates 'play' between the calipers, and tightening that bolt causes 'binding' of the calipers (they won't return properly). The moral of this observation... this bolt should not be used to center the caliper.

    Second observation - As Hopper 1 correctly identified, the 13mm bolt behind the caliper is used to center the brake. However, to do so, it has to first be fastened tightly against the calipers (mine wasn't) before it can be used to center the calipers. This was really the source of my alignment issue.

    Third observation - The 2 grub screws on the 13mm bolt should be loosened. If not, adjusting the 13mm bolt will also cause that big shiny allen bolt to move too (which is a bad thing; see first observation).

    My final opinion on these brakes is that they are an effective brake, very light, not too expensive, but certainly not for everyone. Hopper wrote a PM to me and commented that they were a lot of 'faff'. Being Canadian, I had to look this term up in the English to U.K. dictionary! I definitely agree that I spent way too much time faffing around with my rear brake (My front brake was centered from the very beginning). The average cyclist should just stick to the ease of adjustment that you get from the Shimano / SRAM/ Campy brakes.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    From the PX website -

    Tips on fitting the calipers:
    Mount the brake as centrally as possible using the main frame securing allen bolt.
    The small allen key screw located in the central barrel which secures down on to the central pivot bolt is to assist in centring the caliper arms once the main securing bolt has been tightened.
    There's also a small allen key grub screw on one of the caliper arms which tightens on to the main spring. Once the caliper has been centred using the main mounting bolt, the small allen grub screw can be used to 'fine-tune' the adjustment. By tightening it up, the tension on the spring will be increased and that caliper arm will move away from the rim. Loosen it off and the tension is released and the caliper arm will move towards the rim. It's very clever and kept some of us amused for hours.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Useful info here ! Ta chaps !
  • ravey1981
    ravey1981 Posts: 1,111
    One of the best things I ever did was to stop using my PX brakes, absolutely shocking performance compared to the ultegra 6800s I replaced them with....
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    Nearly as shocking as resurrecting a three year old thread, just to say thanks.
    N
    N+1
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    I've been pretty happy with mine (since figuring out the initial set up). The braking modulation is excellent and they feel more powerful than the Dura Ace 7800 brakes they replaced. The new Ultegra 6800 brakes are nice (I've tried them), but I didn't find them to be significantly different from the planet x version
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    Quite possibly the worst brakes I've ever owned. They're light and they look good but that's your lot, they're a ba5tard to set up, you can visibly see the arms flex when you brake and the braking power is average at best.
    I'd guess that the folk saying that they're better than Ultegra and DA work for Planet X or theyre on a day out from the funny farm.
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    ...or your brakes weren't set up properly.

    I love the classic internet conspiracy theory approach about my sanity or place of employment. I'm sure that they're might be one or two other, very rational, theories out there;).
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    The brakes were set up properly and that's part of the issue, they take for ever to set up bob-on.
    Folk buy PX calipers because they're light, cheap and look fairly good, but if they were any good at what they're supposed to do(brake) wouldn't every road bike in the country have them?
  • beston
    beston Posts: 6
    I doubt PX would continue to sell something that performs as disastrously as you describe.

    These are aftermarket brakes made by a smaller company. Maybe they are not as common because they weren't designed/manufactured by one of the big three component makers(?). Seems like a pretty reasonable assumption.

    -or- let the internet conspiracy begin: Every time someone comments on the brakes, a shimano employee is paid to say something bad about them;).
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19678493#p19678493]beston[/url] wrote:
    I doubt PX would continue to sell something that performs as disastrously as you describe.

    Why the hell not? I bought some merino wool arm warmers from them a while ago. They were great, until the first time I put them through a 30 degree wash and they shrank so much, I couldn't even get them over my hand.
    N
    N+1
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    I've had the PX brakes on the bike for three years now and never had a problem. Its only now I've changed to wider rims that I needed to meddle with them and they aren't as easy to adjust as say Shimano. I guess that's the price you pay.

    As for the armwarmers - I've never had a problem with their kit - are you sure you didnt wash them on 80 ?
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19678702#p19678702]Fenix[/url] wrote:
    As for the armwarmers - I've never had a problem with their kit - are you sure you didnt wash them on 80 ?

    Yes.
    N
    N+1
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677517#p19677517]ravey1981[/url] wrote:
    One of the best things I ever did was to stop using my PX brakes, absolutely shocking performance compared to the ultegra 6800s I replaced them with....

    This.

    I was happy with mine and used them for years, they were light and stopped the bike OK but I'd never go back after using 6800s. No internet conspiracy.

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