Lights - effectiveness

butcher of bakersfield

I'm making a rare excursion into the Commuting section of BikeRadar this week as the car broke down the other day, which has pushed me into the deep end of a 20mile round trip, very hilly commute.

Anyways...got out of work today, only to realise my rear light was dead. So took a little detour and picked up some batteries. They are alive once again. Just in time for the darkness really setting in.

So on my way I go. Up out onto the country roads. Totally unlit. Pitch black. Puffing and panting up the hills.

A car patiently pulls up behind me, as they can see headlights coming round the corner up ahead. Waits for the opportunity to pass, and then pulls out. Expecting them to shoot off ahead, the car continues to drive alongside, and I think great!, waiting for the verbal abuse, used condoms thrown at me, etc - not that I'm pessimistic or anything!

Turns out it was a pretty young lady taking the time to tell me that my lights aren't bright enough. Which I thought was nice. Most people would just run you off the road if they think there's not something right about the way you're riding.

So there I am, filled with confidence, in the pitch black, in the middle of nowhere, illuminated with sub-standard equipment. Brand spanking new batteries in my admittedly very cheap flashing led light. When I get a chance to stop, I get off in the darkness to check it out.

Now I know as a driver, and a cyclists, you get a very different perspective in the car, and visibility is of utmost importance when cycling. But I was near blinded when I looked at it! To which got me thinking....was she taking the piss? Sarcasm isn't always easy to detect.

My problem is...I honestly don't know.

How bright does a light need to be? And can you go over the top?

Hoopdriver

Because of my work schedule i fit my daily 30 mile rides in between 4:30 and 6:30 in the mornings which means I ride A LOT in the dark and on lonely unlit country lanes. Because i do so much in the dark I bought some very good lights - Lupine Betty. Very costly to be sure but beautifully made, utterly reliable an seriously bright - 1850 lumens at top whack, or about as bright as a car headlight. Mine has three settings (programmable) and is set for 700 lumens, 1100 lumens and 1850.

The lights have a very lovely and even beam spread (22 degrees) and light colour.

I think 700 lumens is a good starting point for safety. At 1850 lumens you definitely need to dip them for on-coming traffic, as you would with car high beams; they really are used for dark and lonely roads. One big advantage to these lights is that at high beam, the light will reach the next bend long before you do, giving any unseen oncoming traffic plenty of warning that something (you!) is around the next bend.

I know Lupine lights are very expensive - but over thousands of miles I have found them to be worth every penny.

butcher of bakersfield

Really, at the moment, it's the rear light I'm considering, and the traffic that's passing me from behind. At least I can see what's coming towards me..

I have discovered today however, that my front light is pathetic. Possibly OK for the oncoming traffic, but blasting along unlit, potholed country lanes without being able to see the road is a little unnerving.

But again, an oncoming car passed me a week or so ago, started flashing his lights and tooting his horn, in a really angry manner, and I was the only other person on the road. Front light tilted down. I can only assume he felt I was blinding him. But drivers are more difficult to understand than women when it comes to cycling.

Tonymufc

I run two Smart 1/2 watt super flashes. http://www.rutlandcycling.com/16813/Sma ... Light.html.

Very bright, and very effective. I have one on my seat post and one on my Hump rucksack cover. Hope this is what you're after dude.

fossyant

I run 2 x 3w Magicshine rear lights and a flasher 2 x 1/2 watt Raleigh light.....the 3w magicshines are OTT, but I have my reasons............

You need 1/2 watt LED's - Smart / RSP / Blackburn as a minimum, backed up by a standard flasher - not a cheap crap one.

Up front, then you need something to see with.

fossyant

OK best rear is the RSP ASTRUM for the pounds, or the Smart R2. The Astrum can be got for £15 if you look about.

Front lights..... me I have two Hope 1's..240 lumen max, but I commute on level 2 of 4 (excluding flash).

TBH, I was out last night with just 1 light on level 2, the other on flash in pitch black roads and it was OK...... (low battery). Both on full is amazing.

roger_merriman

I have half watt smart lights on seat post and rack, mainly for reduncey as I arrive at work and realise that one has gone dull, but they do make one very visible.

and thus far seem to be resisting the weather. both are a year or so old.

Lancslad

I have a mars blackburn 2 rear its flippin bright and doesnt break the bank and its fine with rechargable batteries.

snailracer

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

...Turns out it was a pretty young lady taking the time to tell me that my lights aren't bright enough...
So there I am, filled with confidence, in the pitch black, in the middle of nowhere, illuminated with sub-standard equipment. Brand spanking new batteries in my admittedly very cheap flashing led light. When I get a chance to stop, I get off in the darkness to check it out...

On an unlit country road, unless it's raining, it should be very easy to see a flashing red light because it is not competing with any other lights. Led lights are quite directional, perhaps your lights were not optimally angled, or obscured by a pannier or clothing? A rear LED alone makes it difficult for following cars to judge your distance - this is where reflectives come in: pedal reflectors or a reflective jacket indicate width, and therefore help gauge the distance between you and the following vehicle. The driver probably said what she said for brevity, rather than have a lengthy technical discussion with you.

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

...How bright does a light need to be? And can you go over the top?

The British Standard probably has something to say about technically how bright a light should be, but seems to be a legal and commercial irrelevency. As a driver as well as a cyclist, I would say it is possible to go over the top and irritate/dazzle other road users, but in the rain or on fast, busy road, a super bright rear light is useful. Super bright lights usually have a more moderate setting, in any case.

rolf_f

One or two RSP Asteris up front, one or two Smart 1 watts at the rear. Plus mini helmet lights and an illuminated hump over my rucksack. How many of these I use depends on the weather but normal, clear dark conditions it is just one Asteri on flash mode and the 1 watt on main flash.

I worry far more about the headlight than the rear light. The 1Watt rears are seriously bright and cars have plenty of time to see you as they are travelling in the same direction as you. On the other hand, someone pulling out infront can easily miss seeing a poorly illuminated cyclist approaching and the resulting accident is likely to be much worse.

WesternWay

I use a NiteRider thing and the long Cateye that everyone has on the back. I am paranoid about not having lights so always have two front and back.

On the front I have a normal bike light and a very bright unltrafire torch from lumen junkies (quick plug, very good service, nice guy, good lights) attached withy inner tubes. It is very bright and has definitely reduced the number of SMIDSYs from drivers pulling out of side streets.

cougie

How much do you value your life ? Is it worth more than one £5 cheapy LED ?

Personally I never have less than 2 rear lights on - if a light goes out behind you - you dont know.

Also - directionality is important - where is your light pointing - you probably looked directly down the beam - but is that what the car saw ? And I've also seen rear lights blocked out by those silly whale tail mudguards, coat tails, bags, baskets, and the wheel itself.

Get a Fenix L2D or similar for your front light - bright enough to see by and its a torch so you get to use it for the rest of the year for extre value.

Peejay56

I've just bought one of the new Hope District 3 rear lights, OK not cheap, but regarding effectiveness and your safety - awesome.
From my last three 49 mile round trip commutes in the dark on a mixture of lit A roads and pitch black country lanes - cars and trucks won't come near you, they really give you some space.
It's attached to the seatpin and points slightly down as it's way too bright to run parallel to the road, in this position it lights the whole of the road up behind the bike, and still has massive long range visibility.

I use a Lumicycle System 3 LED on the front, again not cheap but a great light.

This is an expensive set up for sure, but with these lights you are certainly seen, have great visibility up front even on the darkest of nights, and has been said - I value my life.

Look after yourselves out there.

Pete..

cougie

And dont forget you can get reflective tape for cheap off ebay. Reflective black for daytime stealth look or white for ultimate reflectivity. My night bike is almost covered in the stuff ! ;-)

crazy88

I use a Mars 3.0 on the back, and have been considering another to be honest. Just can't decide which to buy. I also have those reflectvive bands around my ankles, so hopefully car headlights shine off them and they should stand out with my legs going like the clappers.

As for the front, I have a range and depends on which bike i use. I have a Fenix L2D, some cheapo eBay jobbies which are almost as good as the Fenix, and a Knog boomer which i'm actually quite impressed with too.

shouldbeinbed

not read the full replies, in a rush so apols if duplicating,

it could be that the angle is wrong for a drivers angle of vision. if its pointing wrongly it'll be giving peak illumination down to the ground or off to the left or straight out at 4-5 feet from the floor.

it could be her expectation is higher than bike lights in general can offer and poor to her might be fine to 99% of everyone else

it also depends where she is choosing to make her decision on its brighrtness from, bang alongside you and she'll have only had the benefit of the side spill.

You could invest in lights bright enough to burn a hole in ths surface of the moon and costly enough to see you selling a kidney and still have the same problem if their beam & spread is poor and you orientate them wrongly.

get someone to sit in a car behind you as you adjust the angle up/down & left/right to give the best visibility far enough away that the driver can comfortably make ready to overtake or anticipate your next moves. If they tell you that they're still poor however you angle them then get the best recommended ones (you can afford) and do the same thing again.

crazy88

cougie wrote:

And dont forget you can get reflective tape for cheap off ebay. Reflective black for daytime stealth look or white for ultimate reflectivity. My night bike is almost covered in the stuff ! ;-)

I've just ordered some of the black stuff, I didn't even know it existed, ha!

Thanks

snailracer

cougie wrote:

And dont forget you can get reflective tape for cheap off ebay. Reflective black for daytime stealth look or white for ultimate reflectivity. My night bike is almost covered in the stuff ! ;-)

So, you have a night bike, that you only ride at night? Presumably another one you can ride during the day??

walkingbootweather

snailracer wrote:

So, you have a night bike, that you only ride at night?

Have you never heard of night rider? He had his own tv programme in the 80s I believe.

cougie

mac10

perhaps she was checking out your @rse and just didn't see your lights?

Make sure your lights are pointed in the right direction and not obscured - I’ve seen people cycling with their coat or bag hanging over their lights, or with the light pointing at their sprockets, very shiny and red they looked too!

It's as much about placement, not just brightness! and can you go over the top? yes a betty lupine for cruising through town is arguably over the top (but a justified and sensible purchase if you are riding on unlit country roads or fancy taking an xc route home just for fun) having so many different lights you need to constantly remortgage to buy batteries to keep them al running is also OTT and not very environmentally friendly either.

I ride 12 miles on country roads so plumped for some AY UPs up front so i can see were i'm going at pace - but my greater concern is being launched from behind :shock:

- I have a fibre flare on my back pack (crap waterproofing but large and visible) and at a car windscreen level so i can be seen by cars behind if there is a queue of traffic.
-a bontrager single led light on flasher seat post (look at me)
- and a new cateye 3 LED also on the seat post (powerful, solid - looks well sealed against water ingress).

less is definitely not more when it comes to being visible - get a back up for your back up a £5 spend on a cheap light just in case your other ones fail isn't a bad investment; I keep some spare batteries at work too.

butcher of bakersfield

There was nothing obstructing the light at the time as far as I could tell (I checked), though once I got home I had a look and it was angled very slightly to the left (or nearside if you're familiar with motoring terminology). So I've now adjusted.

It is a very cheap light (£5 jobby), generally used for knocking about the doors and doing short stretches of road between trails. I'd have had something better if I'd planned for my week of commuting..

pollys_bott

Blackburn Flea 2 - cheap, tiny, ridiculously bright. I have a front one on the helmet on flash mode that surely not even the dimmest wuck-fit car driver could miss. I'm sure a pair of them on the handlebars on constant would be fine for riding on un-lit roads...

dilemna

From my post in the Road Buying section:

I was looking at a Max D Mk3 in the LBS today, weighing it, inspecting it, marvelling at how shockingly blindlingly bright it is. I already have 2 very bright Smart 35 lux LED front lights which a moton claimed he couldn't see .............. Well the Max D is so bright it will melt any fecker that tries to knock me down again then claims SMIDSY. The next thing I knew I had bought the Max D and was rather in shock having paid £250 for a bike light, but it's what I need, having been knocked down twice now. I bought 2 RSP 2x1/2W Astrium rear lights (£14.29) as well to go with my existing 4+ Smart rear lights - Polaris and Lunar R1 lights as the RSPs are supposed to be the brightest rear light along with the Smart R2.

Next on my list is Scotchlite for the spokes. I already wear a Scotchlite yellow gilet. Then a flashing amber light that the bin lorries use mounted on a pole about a meter high attached to the rear rack. I'd also like one of those flashing strobe yellow lights to put on my helmet.

But crikey the Max D is bright. I had thought of going for a couple of Magicshine front lights instead, but I can't be doing with the uncertainty of when or whether it will turn up. Plus Exposure like Hope I believe have excellent customer service. I might still get a couple of front Magicshines though.

Anyway off to blind some people :twisted: . Only kidding .........

I shall need a spare battery to increase operating time from 3hrs to 5hrs on full beam and the remote switch, although I cannot see how it is possible to use both at the same time as there is only one port on the back of the Max D. Any help from exisiting owners would be a help.

To the OP - did you get her number? Perhaps you should have agreed with her and asked if she could help you recharge your batteries ?

t4tomo

whilst they might look a bit crap, a hi vis jacket or vest really does get you seen, as whatever your lights are, their car headlights pick it up. Angle of approach also doesn't matter.

I thankfully never have to do the unlit country lanes.

gentlegreen

By the sounds of things I may need to up my game.

I have a modified "UFO" camping light - forty-eight 5mm LEDs arranged in two concentric circles - about 3 watts / 120 lumens..
They're angled a bit imprecisely, but I they give pretty well hemispherical coverage. My original plan was to mount them on half a ball.

http://sites.google.com/site/gentlegreen/bikelighting

I reckon they work pretty well as fog lights and are much better than the average motorcycle's standard rear light and bright enough that I have an alternative light for off-road paths. I find myself in a quandary when another cyclist approaches from behind me when out on the road and even when I'm queuing in traffic.

I also have hi-vis and a 6 inch by 2 inch reflector on my rear basket.

dilemna

gentlegreen wrote:

By the sounds of things I may need to up my game.

I have a modified "UFO" camping light - forty-eight 5mm LEDs arranged in two concentric circles - about 3 watts / 120 lumens..
They're angled a bit imprecisely, but I they give pretty well hemispherical coverage. My original plan was to mount them on half a ball.

http://sites.google.com/site/gentlegreen/bikelighting

I reckon they work pretty well as fog lights and are much better than the average motorcycle's standard rear light and bright enough that I have an alternative light for off-road paths. I find myself in a quandary when another cyclist approaches from behind me when out on the road and even when I'm queuing in traffic.

I also have hi-vis and a 6 inch by 2 inch reflector on my rear basket.

Why not invest in some dedicated cycle lights such as those made by Smart? They are good and relatively cheap especially the rear R1 and R2.

gentlegreen

dilemna wrote:

Why not invest in some dedicated cycle lights such as those made by Smart? They are good and relatively cheap especially the rear R1 and R2.

Because mine will always be better. !

Especially the dipswitch - I couldn't have lights without a dipswitch - and I can't abide being behind people who don't have the option of turning off those horrendous flashing rear lights from a switch on their handlebars.

I have a special mode for shared facilities where even a gentle incandescent glow seems appealing.

Even today I had cause to zap an oncoming cyclist with strobing lights.(my high beam is brighter and I have a button.)



Most bike lights are too small and tend to dazzle oncoming cyclist.