Am I being mean to pedestrians by not letting them cross?

snailracer

Presumably the blowhards posting here won't stop for a blind or deaf-blind pedestrian crossing the road, no?

kurako

jeremyrundle wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

No. They're wankers. If you can slap 'em as you ride by then all the better.

I know part two of this is hopefully a joke but I am afraid I have to agree 100%.

In tavistock, devon we have LARGE wide speed homps each end of three roads, for some moronic reason cars stop allowing peds to cross, they get really p88888 off when I speed through, it is NOT a crossing so I am not going to stop.

Dont (deliberately) hit them but YOU are in the right.

This is one of the reasons I don't like it when cars/buses/vans stop to let me cross when I'm out pushing the little one in the pram. I'm always on the lookout for some dick flying past on a bike thinking he's in the right. Happily, I have enough cycling experience to look out for it. Other people may not be so lucky.

rml380z

I have to agree with most people on this thread.
Yay, all those pedestrians; just f**k 'em. Get out of the way I'm comin' 'through!

After all, it's not like us cyclists get even slightly annoyed when car drivers endanger us in similar ways.

PBo

Do some people on here deliberately misread stuff just to be holier than thou, or score some points about how good they are at anticipating?

The OP is weighing up the risk to himself from other traffic if he stays/stops v the consequence of his actions to the ped. (and in both scenarios the ped is the one acting in the unreasonable manner - irrespective of rights or legality). He is not just saying "screw all peds", which some of the responses suggest.

The fact that he's come on here wondering if there is something different he should do, shows that he is considering peds, even if he feels his own safety is at risk in the scenarios (fair enough).

And making some specious comments about "cyclists complain about inconsiderate motorists' is just a red herring. In these scenarios, the ped - even if not being outright inconsiderate - is the one taking the risk, and should not expect another to put themselves at risk because of it. Sure, if its safe, be kind, and help them out.

MaxwellBygraves

rml380z wrote:

I have to agree with most people on this thread.
Yay, all those pedestrians; just f**k 'em. Get out of the way I'm comin' 'through!

After all, it's not like us cyclists get even slightly annoyed when car drivers endanger us in similar ways.

+ lots

pomtarr

iPete wrote:

Add some Zen to your riding.

This.

Here's a technique for scenario 1:
-When waiting in the ASL position yourself as far up to the line as possible.
-Sit on your top tube looking all relaxed whilst waiting (you may want to invoke Euro Cyclist Rule 80 at this point:http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/#80).
-As soon as the green man turns red, stand up and look ready to go. Watch both sides of the crossing make sure it's obvious that you're champing at the bit.

This will discourage most peds from taking their lives in their hands. Naturally a suicidal minority will still cross. If they do, just follow Pete's advice and add the Zen.

Origamist

PBo wrote:

Do some people on here deliberately misread stuff just to be holier than thou, or score some points about how good they are at anticipating?

PBO, you do not need some kind of ESP or great anticipation ability to know that pedestrians will cross on the black out or "red man" phase - particularly if they're near to the crossing. Pretty average observation works well for me as pedestrians scuttle across at dozens of traffic light controlled junctions on my commute and I cannot remember ever having a problem waiting for them to cross. The second scenario is more problematic and as I said earlier, I'll stop only if it's safe to do so (i.e I often take my cues from motorised traffic as in the vid I posted earlier).

I don't defer to pedestrians and post on a forum in some attempt to be holier than thou, but because it rarely compromises my safety (and ploughing ahead can also cause problems for both of us). Then again, I don't use every ASL zone, for precisely the reason that it increases the likelihood of conflict with pedestrians.

shouldbeinbed

chhopsky wrote:

...
If you're a cyclist, and you're too stupid to either have some spatial awareness on the road, or to look around you when you're doing things like jumping,a red light it's probably better that you're removed from gene pool before you reproduce. That's just plain natural selection...

Fixed that from a dickhead car driver perspective. Didn't have to change much!

OP. Scenario 1 you feel vulnerable to cars doing something silly when travelling in the same direction so you want to strand even more vulnerable road users travelling across their path directly in front of them?

jds_1981

shouldbeinbed wrote:

so you want to strand even more vulnerable road users travelling across their path directly in front of them?

Not convinced pedestrians are more vulnerable then cyclists?

Origamist

jds_1981 wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

so you want to strand even more vulnerable road users travelling across their path directly in front of them?

Not convinced pedestrians are more vulnerable then cyclists?

The DfT have a "hierarchy of users" when looking at proposed traffic management schemes, residential land use, etc and pedestrians top that list. This is why they are often referred to as the most vulnerable group in traffic management circles (i.e based on measures to ameliorate the conditions for this group) - however, in terms of KSI rates, that unfortunate accolade belongs to motorcyclists.

davmaggs

This thread has certainly moved on last week. However it seems that some people have kind of forgotten the original post and started implying that I'm trying to mow down elderly people or mums whilst inserting other bad behaviour hypotheticals that aren't part of my scenario.

Just to be clear there are numerous ASLs enroute and it is only one that causes the problem, and I think it is because of the road layout, time lag and maybe because I'm a bike waiting at a red light. Also I should add that no-one has ever been stranded in front of a vehicle because of my action in scenario 1 or shouted their disapproval (which Londeners will happily do) so I think they know that they're chancers.

I'm going to take the tip on board to perhaps make it really obvious that I'm getting ready to go and see what happens.

Origamist

davmaggs wrote:

Just to be clear there are numerous ASLs enroute and it is only one that causes the problem, and I think it is because of the road layout, time lag and maybe because I'm a bike waiting at a red light. Also I should add that no-one has ever been stranded in front of a vehicle because of my action in scenario 1 or shouted their disapproval (which Londeners will happily do) so I think they know that they're chancers.

I'm going to take the tip on board to perhaps make it really obvious that I'm getting ready to go and see what happens.

Which junction is giving you the headache?

davmaggs

Origamist wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Just to be clear there are numerous ASLs enroute and it is only one that causes the problem, and I think it is because of the road layout, time lag and maybe because I'm a bike waiting at a red light. Also I should add that no-one has ever been stranded in front of a vehicle because of my action in scenario 1 or shouted their disapproval (which Londeners will happily do) so I think they know that they're chancers.

I'm going to take the tip on board to perhaps make it really obvious that I'm getting ready to go and see what happens.

Which junction is giving you the headache?

The ASL with the pedestrians sauntering over when lights are green is next to the Rizty cinema in Brixton. Both lanes of traffic must go left, but once they've made that turn then the road splits (4 lanes wide) and as I want to go straight on I have found over time that being in the ASL (centre of the road, right next to oncoming traffic) signals to all the motors that I am not going left/left and I have enough time to clear the vehicles that panic when they realise that they need to be in the other lane.

Origamist

davmaggs wrote:

Origamist wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Just to be clear there are numerous ASLs enroute and it is only one that causes the problem, and I think it is because of the road layout, time lag and maybe because I'm a bike waiting at a red light. Also I should add that no-one has ever been stranded in front of a vehicle because of my action in scenario 1 or shouted their disapproval (which Londeners will happily do) so I think they know that they're chancers.

I'm going to take the tip on board to perhaps make it really obvious that I'm getting ready to go and see what happens.

Which junction is giving you the headache?

The ASL with the pedestrians sauntering over when lights are green is next to the Rizty cinema in Brixton. Both lanes of traffic must go left, but once they've made that turn then the road splits (4 lanes wide) and as I want to go straight on I have found over time that being in the ASL (centre of the road, right next to oncoming traffic) signals to all the motors that I am not going left/left and I have enough time to clear the vehicles that panic when they realise that they need to be in the other lane.

Ok, I know the junction well and there are lots of pedestrians and it's not the best if you're going towards Streatham Hill (it's better than the old one-way gyratory though). You're on Coldharbour Lane aiming for Brixton Hill (not Effra Rd - please correct me if I'm wrong). I prefer to wait in the right-hand lane behind the ASL zone, centre of the lane, about 2-3 cars back and I sometimes indicate that I'm moving over to the right towards Brixton Hill. Any cylists in the ASL zone slow traffic down on the bend.

I feel more exposed in the ASL leading off there. However, if there are other cyclists using the ASL I sometimes join them and sprint away from the lights, using the other slower cyclists as a traffic calming buffer. Good luck...

For the record, coming through Brixton is marginally more direct for me, but I avoid it and take CS7...

kurako

Origamist wrote:

. I prefer to wait in the right-hand lane behind the ASL zone, centre of the lane, about 2-3 cars back and I sometimes indicate that I'm moving over to the right towards Brixton Hill. Any cylists in the ASL zone slow traffic down on the bend.

I feel more exposed in the ASL leading off there. However, if there are other cyclists using the ASL I sometimes join them and sprint away from the lights, using the other slower cyclists as a traffic calming buffer. Good luck....

This is pretty much what I'd do in that situation. If you're at the front, drivers can see the big open space and practically have a heart attack thinking your're holding them up (even if it's to get to the next queue). If you're in with the traffic and can keep up with the car in front most people can cope with that. You'll still get the odd daft bint in a mini or boy racer with the M3 bodykit on his piece of sh!t but there's not so much you can do about those.