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Specialized footbed kit; bad knees.

seanocseanoc Posts: 24
edited March 2011 in Road beginners
Right, i've had a bit of knee pain since december and it's not shifting. I've had extensive chiropatic therapy on it to no avail so now (whilst i'm waiting for a ortho referal) i'm looking at causes and possible solutions.

Has anyone had experience with these insoles, and do they come with the shims? I'm wondering, also, if there's any direction on how many shims are needed.

Last year I was averaging up to 1000k a month without any issue; since December I've been unable to do 20k without at least 2 days off the bike. I'm running Shimano SL's with yellow cleats ( the cleats are quite worn; I get 9.5 degree of float from them). I'm pretty flat footed which has never been a problem before - spent the best part of 10 years in the military and all that that entails.

My pain presents as pain and crepatice towards the inner/lower side of the patella over the TCL. Looking for someone that's presented similar issues and given the BG insoles a punt I guess.


Tibial collateral ligament

Posts

  • jweighelljweighell Posts: 30
    Yes, the insoles come with the shims and are probably worth trying.

    I use them, though I've never suffered from any knee pain so can't really say whether it would help in that respect. I use them to even out the pressure in my shoes and they seem to do a great job for that.

    It might also be worth checking things like your seat height + fore/aft position as this can affect the strain on the knees?
  • izzaizza Posts: 1,561
    Have you thought about a Specialized Bike Fit.

    I had them done and they put the shims in between cleats and soles and sorted out my insoles to have a metatarsal button ones. All hot foot issues and knee worries covered and sorted very quickly.
  • GD73GD73 Posts: 29
    personally i would try replacing your cleats.

    you've admitted yourself there badiliy worn.

    anytime in the past i've had knee issues it has been down to worn cleats

    if they are worn and your knees arent tracking correctly
    then that could be the cause of your problem.

    once the cleats are replaced go out for a couple of runs
    and see how you knees react.

    The next step could be the insoles, failing this you may need to get a proper bikefit done to fix it.
  • racingcondorracingcondor Posts: 1,434
    They may help but I wouldn't advise self diagnosing the problem.

    The question I'd be asking is what has changed between last summer and now which has started the problem. If you were fine 6 months ago then the problem should be solveable without footbeds etc.
  • seanocseanoc Posts: 24
    Thanks chaps.

    I've diagnosed with tracking issues already and a bit of wear on the inside of my patella.

    I'll pick up some new cleats when I have the insoles sorted at the weekend.

    What's changed...that's a good question. New shoes, started swimming lots, started foam rolling exercises, binned gym work, began to like olives, I imagine there's a few other things too
  • on-yer-bikeon-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    seanoc wrote:
    Thanks chaps.

    I've diagnosed with tracking issues already and a bit of wear on the inside of my patella.

    I'll pick up some new cleats when I have the insoles sorted at the weekend.

    What's changed...that's a good question. New shoes, started swimming lots, started foam rolling exercises, binned gym work, began to like olives, I imagine there's a few other things too

    Ah yes olives, you should have said! I would get a bike fit, somewhere good, if I were you.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • racingcondorracingcondor Posts: 1,434
    Shoes could be part of the difference as well. Especially if you've moved from or to Specialized (with their angled footbed).

    I run about 3km twice a week as I find it helps with my joint stability around my knees (my left knees is pretty weak) so stopping the gym work could also be making some difference.

    Hope you can sort it out soon.
  • GD73GD73 Posts: 29
    change only one thing at a time and see how your knees react.

    don't change lots of things or else you won't know what the issue was and you could
    make things worse.

    as one of the posters has said what has changed in the last 3/6 months - more or less exercise different types etc

    think about your bike as well - replaced a saddle recently? the fore/aft position the same?

    has your seatpost increased/decreased over a period of time? maybe you werent to precise when you last adjusted it...

    any or all of these things could be factors.

    once you eliminated them and nothing has worked i reckon a proper bikefit would be the way to go.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    jweighell wrote:
    Yes, the insoles come with the shims and are probably worth trying.

    I use them, though I've never suffered from any knee pain so can't really say whether it would help in that respect. I use them to even out the pressure in my shoes and they seem to do a great job for that.

    It might also be worth checking things like your seat height + fore/aft position as this can affect the strain on the knees?
    +1 to this, i do get knee pain in left knee after 40+ miles, i use bike fit shims, which although make my feet more comfortable, didn't solve the problem. The best result so far has come from putting seat further back than i'm used to, knee pain ceased immediately last saturday, though i only had a mile to do when i tried this for the first time
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • leflef Posts: 728
    have you checked the cleats are set up in a way to allow the normal angle of your feet, pointing outwards / inwards? When I first started using cleats I had knee pain caused from not having the shoes pointing outwards to reflect how my feet typically are when stood or walking. Correcting this solved the problem very quickly.
  • seanocseanoc Posts: 24
    Quick update as it’s been a while.

    I’ve made quite a few changes over the past few weeks and experimented extensively with saddle height and saddle position.

    Starting with defaults settings: I stuck the saddle rails at a point where my the back of my kneecap is plumb above the axle of the forward pedal when the cranks are at horizontal.
    Saddle height at a point where my leg is straight when my heel is on the pedal.

    New yellow cleats; positions central in the sole of the shoe, allowing my toe; to slightly point out if they want to (that’s my natural stance); the float allows the feet to wander straight if they want to.

    Stuck some specialized footbeds in (excellent service by Tredz in Cardiff); blue ones as it would appear that my feet aren’t as flat as I thought.

    Okay; after a fair bit of experimenting the following set up is working for me.
    Saddle height – as default.
    Saddle position – about 10mm forward of default; this noticeably reduces the stress on the bottom of my knee.
    Cleat position – slammed right back but slightly angled; again noticeably reduces the stress on my knee (this has something to do with calf issues).
    Foot beds; I’m liking these and have ended up with 3mm of Varus.

    From a professional consultation point of view. I’ve seen a podiatrist and he’s advised me that I’m at the bottom of the normal range and is knocking me up a set of insoles for cycling (the guys a cyclist himself and a world record chaser at that). Physio has identified some issues with my calfs, quads and glutes which we've been working on; I’ve had an xray and I’m popping in for a consultation on the 6th April.

    Okay, the results. This week has been the best since October; I’m managing to ride on consecutive days without complementary therapy (hot/cold packs). This week’s distance is well up to 200k’s and I’m feeling happy about pushing it up again next week.

    Is it the stretching, the set up or the insoles? Not sure but as soon as I used the insoles my knee felt less exposed, not stronger, but certainly less weak. For £25 I reckon they are well worth a punt if your having knee issues......I’d avoid buying them online though; get down to a decent shop and speak to one of the chaps that have attended the product course.
  • rc856rc856 Posts: 1,144
    I've posted a thread a wee while back where I was wondering if I was just overdoing it in preparation for a trip to the Pyrenees or it was down to some changes.
    One of these changes was the addition of the Spesh footbeds (grey) after a bike fit.
    While I've read that they help....could they have a negative effect?
    I'm trying to work back on changes made so wondered if I should take them out as I never had an issues before them....amongst other changes (unless it is just overuse!?).
  • saunaboysaunaboy Posts: 116
    I just had BG Fit done in Newcastle.

    Found I had a 1cm difference in leg length. Been having pain in medial knee that I can't shift & physio had found flat feet but not the leg length issue.

    First thing we tried were the inserts & they lade a huge difference. I hadn't realised how much force I'd been passing through the ball of my big toe. Now the force goes evenly through my front foot. Cleat also moved on right foot to correct for short leg.

    Knee still goosed, but bike definitely feels better & I'm expecting to see a benefit once I'm back out.

    The issue isn't just a bike thing though & I'm getting iserts in all my shoes to (hopefully) make a permanent change. Legs also need to be more balanced with regard to muscle strength.
  • fludeyfludey Posts: 384
    Hi where did you get the bike fit done in Newcastle as often up that way and would like to look into this, or does anyone know of anywhere that does this around Leicester way?

    For some reason I just cant seem to get my left shoe / cleat right never feels right, not getting any pain but feel im fighting against it.

    And yet on my mountain bike have no trouble at all and the angle from one bike to the other is the same all be it on diff shoes...SPD on MTB & SP-L on road bike.
    Felt AR4
    Planet X Pro Carbon 105
    MTB Kona Kikapu Deluxe with a few upgrades!!
  • saunaboysaunaboy Posts: 116
    MSteel in Gosforth. Right up in north of city.
  • Peddle Up!Peddle Up! Posts: 2,040
    lef wrote:
    have you checked the cleats are set up in a way to allow the normal angle of your feet, pointing outwards / inwards? When I first started using cleats I had knee pain caused from not having the shoes pointing outwards to reflect how my feet typically are when stood or walking. Correcting this solved the problem very quickly.

    +1 to this. Eventually I had to resort to pedal spacers (ugh!) so my left ankle could clear the crank. For insight it helps to ride with flats and take a look during the ride to see how your feet naturally position themselves.
    Purveyor of "up" :)
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