GMAT/MBA - any advice?

guinea

I'm thinking about a change in my career and one option is to go to business school to do an MBA. I think it's only worth the money if I get in to a top school in either in the UK or the US.

I need to do the GMAT exam and get a very good score. The top schools require 700+. I haven't done any real exams other than some professional certificates since university over a decade ago. Has anyone done it? Have you any tips? Have you any learning strategies or resources?

Another part of the entrance is the essays. I see there are private essay reviewers. Has anyone used these?

Any other advice or experience is welcome!

davenewcastle1973

Hi

I've just completed the MBA in Newcastle University and I think that whilst it was a really valuable experience it is not the panacea that some would make it appear.

I did the executive MBA which is a part time course completed over two years whilst still working. The mix in the group was good but predominantly public sector (although that may be curtailed somewhat now....)

To think that an MBA will get you a job is fallacy - it is a nice to have for most employers but is still very much an American qualification.

With regards to the GMAT and essays, dont worry too much - you can do practice online and really all they need to see is aptitude and willingness, they skillset in my group was also very varied.

I was funded through my course by my employer, to be honest even though it was a fantastic experience, I would not have spent £20k of my own money...

Just MHO for what its worth, good luck with whatever choice you make

4kicks

I did the GMAT when it was still handwritten so my facts may be a bit our of date (but it was good enough!)...Id say
1) Do a first go to see where you are...sub 550, forget about it as you´ll not get up to 700+

2) Assuming youre in the ballpark, I think there is no subsitute to practice, practice and practice, and dont forget the way the verbal/math averages out its more important to work on your "weaker" elements

3) Do it with friends if you can, as you can pick up many tips. I dont think crammers are worth the money, imho, as I dont think the teachers generally are very good (I got offered a job in the middle of my course to teach GMAT applications cos I got a high score, no other reason!)

3) The essays are entirely a horse of a different colour..I also interview for my MBA school and read some of the applicants essays, and think you really have to work and work at these, show it to people you trust, dont forget all the top MBA schools run information sessions which are the ideal moment to find out exactly what they are looking for..for me there needs to be a clear answer to the two questions "why you" and "why are you doing it" which none of the other application parts of the process can answer well..... a private essay reviewer could actually be worthwhile if they can tell you who they have worked for, get them to critique one of your essays for free and see what they are like...

4kicks

btw in response to Dave´s post...not that I necessarily disagree, but the OP was more about "how to get in to a top school" than "should I do it"

davenewcastle1973

Although the statement referenced any other advice or experience.....

guinea

Thanks folks.

I'm still in early thinking at the moment. I know that the MBA will not guarantee me riches but I'm looking to use this an an opportunity to reskill. I've been a tech guy all my career but fancy broadening my horizons. After a decade of being on-call (even as a Director) I fancy a change. I think my biggest obstacle to getting into a good school will be that I'm not coming in as an Accenture consultant or a senior analyst from PWC. Hopefuly the diversity the schools boast about will work in my favour.

Most US schools' admissions have closed and I don't imagine I've got time to get revision and applications done for the last of this year's UK intake, so realistically I'll be going for 2012/13. I'm going to book a speculative GMAT for mid April and see how I get on.

I would have liked to have done an Exec MBA, but as an Operations guy, there's no chance I can get the time to do it. It's full time or nothing.

snailracer

Every bookshop has tons of GMAT revision books.

Not everyone on a MBA course has passed the GMAT - some business schools waive the requirement if you have other impressive qualifications or experience (and no, I am not talking about "executive" MBA courses).

The MBA course I'm familiar with (one of the big London schools, but I am not naming names) placed a lot of emphasis on essays and group projects. I thought it was structured this way mainly to allow thick, lazy students (e.g. businessmen's offspring) to parasitize the efforts of smart, hard-working students in order to show they had "done" some coursework of satisfactory standard.

While it was a fairly good networking opportunity, call me cynical, but sorry, I don't accept the MBA as a "qualification" with much integrity.

Monty Dog

I did an MBA 12 years ago - it certainly opened the door to better roles in big corporates - I was made redundant by my employer who funded the MBA and my next job came with a 50% pay increase. However, from someone who now works in HR for a FTSE 50, success is as much about professional development in your chosen area, your ability to demonstrate effective leadership and finally the ability to translate management theory into tangible business benefit - most of this stuff you don't get from an MBA. By all means do an MBA, but all it does these days is get you on the 'yes' pile, don't forget the other stuff. Likewise, the halcyon days for MBAs walking into one of the big 4 consultancies are long gone, particularly as many of the big retainer contracts in government have disappeared - they too are looking for delivery specialists.

tlw1

I have followed a different route, as I can't afford the time or monies to leave work, I am doing it via the OU. Its 12-16 hrs a week and 16 weeks in I can honestly say I am enjoying it, even if I am missing cycling

rick_chasey

I guess also you need to think of the value of an MBA to the particular path you want to choose.

I know for the places I'm looking at in the medium term, I'd be looking at a particularly expensive MBA (over £50,000) if it was going to get me where I want to be - which is an enormous outlay, especially considering my age.

Having spoken to a few people who are a bit more knowledgeable about what they look for in the areas I want to get into, they suggested for me to do a CFA in my spare time, rather than shell out on an expensive education that won't necessarily be worth the outlay, and work my way through.

I've been told plenty of times in the area I work that where you do the MBA is surprisingly important, and, unfortunately, that's reflected in their prices.

Of course, for where you want to go this may not remotely apply.

guinea

Rick, you are right. Your career path is defined as much as by your school as your subject. It's only worth it for me if I get in ones of the top 5 UK or top 10 US schools. London business school looks great. I popped in to see them recently and did the tour. It was hugely impressive.

rick_chasey

guinea wrote:

London business school looks great. I popped in to see them recently and did the tour. It was hugely impressive.

You'd bloody hope so for £50,000 + for a 2 year course!

tebbit

I attended an MBA meet the lecturers session many years ago, (in the end I did an MSC instead), the woman I was speaking to recognised me and I her, it turned out we had enjoyed a pleasant evening together in our younger days after meeting in an alternative night club in Manchester.

guinea

Rick Chasey wrote:

guinea wrote:

London business school looks great. I popped in to see them recently and did the tour. It was hugely impressive.

You'd bloody hope so for £50,000 + for a 2 year course!

By the time you factor in rent, eating, books, travel and loss of earnings you're easily down £250k. The price of LBS is higher than the others, but when you factor in the whole life cost it's almost irrelevant.

rick_chasey

guinea wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

guinea wrote:

London business school looks great. I popped in to see them recently and did the tour. It was hugely impressive.

You'd bloody hope so for £50,000 + for a 2 year course!

By the time you factor in rent, eating, books, travel and loss of earnings you're easily down £250k. The price of LBS is higher than the others, but when you factor in the whole life cost it's almost irrelevant.

Depends how much you're earning to start with in fairness...

4kicks

Its only 250k if you factor in living in Central London...mine was much less than that, and dont forget (at least in the good years) sign on bonuses can offset much of the fees.

But segueing into a broader theme (yes, you will learn to say thinkgs like that in an MBA course, especially if you never read the case study notes)...

1) I think only the top 10 schools worldwide, of which max 3 are in Europe, can offer a "guaranteed return" where its pretty sure youll be hired after to a "job of your dreams".. probably even less in a really deep recession...

then there are the executive/part time MBAs which are great training to further your understanding/get a kick up in your current profession...perfectly valid, but another purpose althgether. What I think is risky is the middle ground where you "quit your job to do an MBA" at any one of the 40 Universities in the UK offering courses on the hope that Anderson will pick you up..they probably wont, and MBAs, like most jobs only more so, are pretty cyclical..

2) OF course MBA´s only get your CV into the "see" pile, but the idea is careers are all about trajectory so a good 1st job ex MBA can get you into the next one, etc etc. Dont forget headhunters are very lazy and often just troll the specific MBA schoold address book to recruit candidates (how I got headhunted!)

3) Different MBAs offer different things.. I chose mine for a number of reasons, and one huge advantage my school would have now was a multi-campus approach, so that in the last recession, something like 90% of the class were in jobs last year, many in Asia/Arabia, LatAm, wheras the pretty exculsively focussed USA MBA schools had a much larger drop off in recruiting...
not sure how much of this to keep posting publicly as opposed to on a PM as its hard to discuss more about my experiences without bragging (for me, anyway!)

guinea

Losing a couple of years pay, continuing to live where I do and paying fees and expenses will cost around that figure. If done the maths, talked it through with the missus and we're good with it.

I not looking to walk into a tier 1 consultancy on £150k at the end of the process, but I would like to be considered for positions that right now I can't even apply for.

As I said, good school or nothing. I can't afford to take a year out of my career for a risk.

4kicks, I'll PM you later. I'd love to know more. If you're in London I'd pay well in beer to pick your brains.