Commuting hub-gears and disc brakes

Conjoy

Hi all,

First time poster here.

I am looking for a new bike for getting round London. Main purpose is my commute into the city from North or West London (only a few miles each way), and weekend cycling round town.
I had a Boardman hybrid (very roady in geomatry) that was quite nice, but prone to problems, and am currently on a ridgback hybrid (much more mountain posture/style).
For the new one I am looking at:
Hub gears look like a good option for low maintenance and reliability.
Disc brakes for all-weather conditions.
Racing profile/geomatry for frame
I am buying under the cycle to work scheme, so have a bit over 1k to play with.

Looking for suggestions and comments on which are the better bikes with the above specs. I have seen reasonable reviews for Genesis, Trek and Ridgback models.
Also, anyone with experience of the Shimano 8 gear hub, and whether it would offer sufficient gears for doing something like the London to Paris ride.

Thanks in advance!

Sanderville

Have a look at the Charge Mixer 2011 model - comes in both 8- and 11-speed hub gear varieties, has disk brakes and I believe this year's model even comes with mudguards fitted.

The Rookie

On-one pompetamine....
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPALF ... ine-alfine
or
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPALF ... e-11-speed

Simon

redhanded

Also Cotic Roadrat:

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/bikes/roadrat/alfine/

Down the Road

Have a look at this one. The belt drive NEVER needs oiling or maintenance

[http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/urban/soho/sohodlx/l]

I have the district single speed with this belt and after 2.5 years of abuse it still has not had an adjustment.[url][/url]

Bi50N

I have the On-One Pompetamine Versa Pro

Cyclocross style steel frame, will take full guards and rear rack
Drop bars
Disc bakes
Alfine 8 speed

Bought as an all-weather commuter / light weekend tourer. No complaints so far, it's a beautiful bike and incredibly practical for all the things you want it for. Not the lightest, but still fast.

If you JUST want to use it for a London commute though, I'd also recommend the Trek District (oddly, my other bike).

Very light, very fast, takes a rack if needed, and the belt is totally maintenance free. I use this whenever I cycle in London itself, never needed / wanted extra gears. The Soho also has a belt drive, but I can'l see the need for those extra gears (and weight) in London.

caleyking

Sanderville wrote:

Have a look at the Charge Mixer 2011 model - comes in both 8- and 11-speed hub gear varieties, has disk brakes and I believe this year's model even comes with mudguards fitted.

I concur, I picked up the 2010 model in Jan from Wiggle at a bargan basement price of £540 I've done 100 miles per week since and its a great ride. It is heavy compared to a road bike but there is little rolling resistance so its very nippy.

The Shimano 8-gear hub is a wonder to behold and highly recommended as the gear indexing and shifting is seamless and never misses a beat. No had to do any maintenance or servicing yet but dont envisage doing much at all when compared to a derailleur setup.

The disk brakes are very good too, on my full sus I have Formula RX The Ones too so am used to good brakes anyway.

Good looking understated bike that commands respect too.

Great for commuting on the pot-holed roads which is a must these days and feel confident that its going to be my daily work-horse for many years to come.

Cheers
Caley

Moodyman

Another vote for the Charge Mixer (2010), though the On One offering looks good too.

snailracer

Ever considered hub brakes? Just as weather proof as a disc, but even less maintenance.

dilemna

To the OP - Cycling Active this month has a feature on hub and belt driven bikes. The Trek Soho DLX and On-One feature iirc and also one other. Maybe worth taking 10 mins to skim read it in WH Smiths.

My suggestion would be a Santos Travel Master with Rohloff hub, belt drive and hydraulic rim brakes, but sadly not cheap as in this spec it would cost just under £3k which is probably more than you wish to spend. James Bowthorpe rode one of these on his RTW record breaking ride.

http://www.jdcycles.co.uk/products.php? ... ring_Bikes

Check out Cycling Active though in Smiths.

HTH.

Btw Welcome.

MichaelW

I have been using Shimano Alfine on a Dahon Cadenza 8 for about 3 years with a 2x8mile commute.
The hub is totally fault-free and reliable. Its a lot cleaner than derailleur gears and perfect for urban commuting.
Disk brakes a great in any weather, they are not more powerful than V-brakes but do work consistently in the wet, mud and snow. I use Shimano mechnical discs and they are more than good enough.
Note of advice, the best place for commuter disk brake is on the chainstay NOT the seatstay, so you can use an ordinary rear luggage rack.

The key to a good hub gear bike is chain tension. There are several methods:
-A spring-loaded chain tensioner with vertical dropouts: Only recommended for converting existing bikes. You should NEVER buy a new bike that uses one, its a total cop-out and very lazy of the manufacturer.

-Horizontal dropouts. Light, simple, but alter the position of brake calipers on the disk and can be a faff to use with inflated tyre if clearance is tight.

-Sliding vertical dropouts (eg paragon). Advanced and effective, esp if the disk brake mount slides too.

-Eccentric Bottom Bracket. Can be very good. External bolt clamp style is simple and reliable. Internal clamp can be creaky and seize-up. Advanced internal models have a bolt that releases as well as tightens.

The big problem with hub/disk bikes is that no one model has all the required features. The Charge Mixer has very tight clearance and can barely take mudgards.
Genesis day 1 has a seatstay rear brake.
The Pompatine is probably closest to the perfect Alfine bike.

Bi50N

The Pompatine is probably closest to the perfect Alfine bike.

I looked at at both the Genesis and the Charge before deciding on the On-One. It's magic.

The Rookie

MichaelW wrote:

Note of advice, the best place for commuter disk brake is on the chainstay NOT the seatstay, so you can use an ordinary rear luggage rack.

Unless you dislike having to urinate on the cable in very cold weather to de-ice it as a number of people found in December, kinda of goes against the low maintenance hub gearidea though!

Dedicated disc racks are available to suit seat stay miunted disc callipers of course, Madison do an excellent one for just £18.

Simon

davman

Just to go against the general opinions in the thread, i've recently changed my Roadrat back to gears from Alfine

My commute is about 12 miles each way, with a hill at each end, and i've struggled to get the Roadrat set up with gearing that was ideal for this type of ride. It was either too much or too little.

I'm still of the opinion that the Alfine is a great bit of kit, just not for me i've decided.

My Roadrat has now got Tiagra kit, but i've kept the disc brakes on, as i am convinced they are the best option (for me at least) for braking.

It also means i can use the Roadrat for training rides at the weekend, but can also include canals, rights of way etc if i want a bit of variety.

Simon

Conjoy

A big thanx for all the helpful replies.
My biggest concern at this point with the hub gears is in the event of a puncture. Maybe its just my paranoia (my Boardman came with paper-thin tyres and was super prone to punctures) but I don't want to have to engage in some kind of minor engineering miracle on the side of a London road. I realise there are plenty of youtube videos, but theres no replacement for practical experience. I'm not a complete dud on practical things but I'm no mechanic either - how hard will I find replacing the rear tyre on the go comparative to a quick-release? Am I being paranoid and this is a non-issue or will I spend half of my commute praying?

Any thoughts on whether the On-One would take the Belt-Drive option?

bikejon

Someone has cut their frame and customised their On-One to take a belt drive. I think it's in the 'Readers Bikes' section on the website. You'd need to be brave though!

It is undeniably more faff to fix punctures on a hub based rear wheel. I wouldn't call it especially technically difficult, just more time consuming and cumbersome. If possible it is easier to do a quick field repair with a super patch (or the like) without taking out the wheel and then do a proper job on a stand when you get home.
It is also a good idea to run a more puncture resistant tyre on the back. The extra weight of the hub seems to make the wheel more prone to picking up stuff.

El Gordo

bikejon wrote:

It is undeniably more faff to fix punctures on a hub based rear wheel. I wouldn't call it especially technically difficult, just more time consuming and cumbersome.

It's the rear puncture thing that puts me off hub gear bikes at the moment. I could cope with having to unhook the gear cable from the hub and even undoing some wheel nuts but having to release the mudguard to slide the wheel out of the rear facing dropouts seems a step to far.

When someone brings out a (quick release) Rohloff hubbed bike with verticle dropouts and an eccentric bottom bracket I'll buy it. I know Thorn do one or two like that but I want something more cyclocross than touring that runs 700C wheels... If I was loaded I'd get one built.

MichaelW

My Dahon has an eccentric bottom bracket and vertical dropouts. Rear wheel changes are pretty easy, not as swift as derailleurs but certainly not an issue.
The only "trick" is how to fix the cable to the cassette arm (you need to rotate the bolt fixed to the cable end with pliers, twist and pop out).

gilesjuk

Go tubeless and fit a puncture resistant tyre on the rear wheel (marathon plus) and you'll probably never need to remove the rear wheel.

The Alfine is fiddly to remove, but many people don't remove the cable right. You only need to pull the outer and slip it out of the cable support then unhook the cable.

You don't need to remove the shifting mechanism.

I put my Rohloff on the commuter and I recommend one if you have the money. You can get them on www.bike24.com for a couple of hundred less than UK prices. It only then works out about £300 more than an Alfine 11, which just doesn't have enough low end gears if you want to creep up hills.

Sanderville

Rear punctures aren't that bad. I've been commuting with a Nexus 7 hub for three and a half years and I just pop the wheel out but leave the gear cable attached. The mudguard doesn't get in the way at all.

The only downside is having to carry a spanner for the wheel nuts but since this is my commuter I always have a pannier bag for tools.

nigglenoo

Looks like the Halfords Carrera Subway 8 is back, now with the Alfine hub and disc brakes plus other improvements, all for only £400: http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... zone=PDPz1

On the picture the bike appears to have an external clamped eccentric BB with vertical dropouts and even a rear mech hanger?! I have the original model with Nexus 8 hub, roller brakes and horizontal dropouts.

Conjoy

So based on the helpful comments here and my further research, I decided on the On-One with the 8-speed hub.
Unfotunately for me, my work Cyle to work vouchers are only useable at Evans. And as luck would have it they Evans can't order in On-One bikes (although if anyone knows to the contrary I would be overjoyed).
In the mean time I am, if not back to square one, then certainly having another look at the remaining options, they all have hub gears, disc brakes and Alu frames and their good and bad points:
Trek Soho - I like the idea of the belt drive and Carbon forks but Vertical drop-out and eccentric
Charge Mixer - More agressive position and a good quality steel frame but again Vert d-o and eccentric, this seems like about the best option at this stage.
Ridgeback Flight 04 - Carbon forks but has a derauilers-tyle chain tightener, potentially this undermines the whole point of keeping the gears free of dirt and adds additional weight that the other hubs avoid.
Scott Sub 10 - American (not a big deal but it would eb ncie to support British) and again has Vert d-o and Eccentric
Genesis Day 01 - Steel frame and Horizontal d-o are nice but unlike most here I'm not the biggest fan of drop-bars on a commuting bike.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons above, the On-One really stole the show being steel, Horiz d-o and straight bars. Is steel that much better for commuting?

nigglenoo

FWIW in your shoes I would get a cheap or 2nd hand single or 3-speed for commuting in London, then buy the bike I really want on the Cycle 2 Work scheme. In fact that is virtually what I did, I got a shop soiled Carrera Subway 8 for £120 and bought a road bike on Cycle 2 Work, the only difference is I went for more gears on the commuter due to the hills down here.

The Rookie

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kon ... ery=alfine
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gen ... ery=alfine

Both flat barred but road style alfine with disc and horizontal DO's from Evans.......

Simon

nigglenoo

The Beginner wrote:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dr-fine-energy-bar-2011-hybrid-bike-ec026510?query=alfine
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gen ... ery=alfine

Both flat barred but road style alfine with disc and horizontal DO's from Evans.......

Simon

Except that the Genesis has drops :?

The Rookie

Blimey, how did I get confused on that! Must have gone back and forth too much - DOH!

Simon

jonny_trousers

There is a flat barred Day One Alfine 8 in a much nicer chrome finish than the drop barred orange. And Evans should stock it.

jonny_trousers

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

There is a flat barred Day One Alfine 8 in a much nicer chrome finish than the drop barred orange. And Evans should stock it.

How weird! I've just doen some research to back up my claim and I think I must be wrong. Perhaps it is their CX single speed I am thinking of.

Either way, accept it, you will want drops in the end.