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Hurray, radio protests rumble on

iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,774
edited March 2011 in Pro race
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7558/ ... sblad.aspx

It's not an ASO race, so the teams will win. And the UCI won't recognise the result.

Sweet.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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  • Tom BBTom BB Posts: 1,001
    Great :roll:

    I haven't followed too much of the arguements about race radios....have either the UCI or the teams/riders said that a one way broadcast from the race directors would be an option? Surely that way all of the riders would know about hazards ahead etc-the teams couldn't really argue against it on safety grounds?
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    Does this affect PTP? 8)
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,596 Lives Here
    Pokerface wrote:
    Does this affect PTP? 8)

    Indeed, that is the pressing question.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,596 Lives Here
    Ian, presumably it won't matter if the PTPers are right and Gilbert wins?:?
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    Shame the invitations for the Tour are sewn up - the threat of missing out on that might make a few of these teams think twice.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Pokerface wrote:
    Does this affect PTP? 8)

    Indeed, that is the pressing question.

    Erm... uh... hmmm... I'll just do like the UCI and make up a rule depending what happens tomorrow.
  • Tom BB wrote:

    I haven't followed too much of the arguements about race radios....have either the UCI or the teams/riders said that a one way broadcast from the race directors would be an option? Surely that way all of the riders would know about hazards ahead etc-the teams couldn't really argue against it on safety grounds?

    Good point, I think. They'd be tuned into race radio, in effect, but not being programmed like robots by the DS.
  • I think this is the compromise that has to be met.

    The riders want to be safe. The UCI want exciting racing. A one way radio would provide both of these things to all the stakeholders involved
    My Men 2020 - Mark Cavendish, Ben Swift, Fernando Gaviria, Alejandro Valverde, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Zdenek Stybar, Vincenzo Nibali, Geraint Thomas.
  • dougzzdougzz Posts: 1,833
    Radio Doping. A small receiver chip planted under the skin near the ear using a different frequency to race radio, DS to team leader, we're going in :) Similar for the transmitter near the throat "I was talking to myself"
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Voigt's idea of more exciting racing is fewer mountains and more circuit races? Really? Also, circuit races are not safer. He obviously forgot about the Milano Deathrace 3000 in the Giro two years ago.
  • rebsrebs Posts: 891
    So how long till bike computers start taking text messages? :P

    Wasn't their some April fools article about team sky putting ipads on the handlebars of the bikes. Doesn't seem that unlikely now :P
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,894
    rebs wrote:
    So how long till bike computers start taking text messages? :P

    Wasn't their some April fools article about team sky putting ipads on the handlebars of the bikes. Doesn't seem that unlikely now :P

    As Vaughters has been at length to point out - texting and mobiles are specifically banned so that won't happen. I think the mobiles got banned after Cipo used to phone his mates during a race.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,894
    rebs wrote:
    So how long till bike computers start taking text messages? :P

    Wasn't their some April fools article about team sky putting ipads on the handlebars of the bikes. Doesn't seem that unlikely now :P

    As Vaughters has been at length to point out - texting and mobiles are specifically banned so that won't happen. I think the mobiles got banned after Cipo used to phone his mates during a race.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,101
    Arkibal wrote:

    I like Jens as a rider (who doesn't), but his obsession with the proposed radio ban is beyond me. He makes a huge play on the safefy element - with isolated examples illustrating consequence (risk of death) - all very melodramatic.

    On safety, this could be addressed with a one-way radio linked into a neutral safety broadcast channel.
    On mechanicals, surely these are all part and parcel of racing?
    On increased 'drama' - we would need to wait and see...
  • eiger30eiger30 Posts: 39
    This reminds me of the fuss that was made about boring tennis at Wimbledon and how they could change things to encourage longer rallies as opposed to serve and volley. And guess what, they got their wish and now Wimbledon is just another base line rally tournament just like the rest.

    The best point Jens made was to open the radios up to the broadcasters as in Formula 1. Anyone who has seen Chasing Legends will know that the riders use the radio to get the team to the front to split the field. Anyone remember that very exciting stage where HTC smashed the peleton to pieces, no radios that day and it would have been another flat stage procession to the finish.

    If the only cycling you watch is the Grand Tours then yes radios may seem to 'ruin' break-aways, but last year's RVV and PR were won by a lone rider who was wearing a radio. If you want to see races with break-aways watch one day races.

    Finally no-one seems to include the break-away catches in the mountains when saying how bad radios are, do people just not like to see mass bunch sprints anymore
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    I love Jens example about the lack of a radio costing a win, Andy being sad and the sponsor leaving, as if the only acceptable, even possible, result for the sport of cycling is for Andy to win. I might be going out on a limb here, but I think that even if Andy lost, another rider may have won and made his sponsor happy - but this is just a wild stab in the dark.

    How long before Jens' legs start telling him to shut up?
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    Surely the essence of bike racing is that it's a race between cyclists - people on bikes - not people on bikes having their decisions made for them by a bloke in a car watching the race on a TV with access to the riders' power outputs and heart rates.

    The way things are now gives an even greater advantage to the stronger teams - not only do they have the riders in the peloton but they can organise them far better because of the radios. It makes races more predictable - it makes gambles less likely to pay off and that makes the racing more conservative. It's a spectator sport - that's what pro cycling is about - it makes it money from people wanting to watch - how does being predictable and conservative make for better viewing ?

    You can make an argument for radios on grounds of safety - personally I don't buy it but if needs must then a one way feed from the race radio takes care of that - my money is a majority of riders wouldn't bother wearing them if that's all they were for but the option could be there. Beyond that what is the argument for radios ?

    Reading Jens' letter I get the impression he wants to water cycling down - make it less extreme - take away the epic nature of the sport. Multiple mountain stages, cobbles, wet descents - yes they are dangerous, hard, they make you suffer but they are also what makes the sport great. Nobody forced him to become a pro cyclist - he knew what he was getting into - if he doesn't like it then he has enough money to retire and let someone else have a go. I think he's just getting old.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    Maybe they should have open radio comms for all teams. So all teams can hear all messages. Safety issue solved and neutralizes the surprise element. Everyone wins.
  • dougzzdougzz Posts: 1,833
    Pokerface wrote:
    Maybe they should have open radio comms for all teams. So all teams can hear all messages. Safety issue solved and neutralizes the surprise element. Everyone wins.

    Situation Vacant: Basque Flemish translator required, must enjoy travel.....
  • dcjdcj Posts: 395
    race radios or not? who really gives a monkeys...

    right now cycling has enough issues with the fight against doping etc.

    the UCI is displaying the same ill advised intransigence it did over the pro tour team debacle . yet at other times when strength of character is needed (like the olympic events changes) it just rolls over.

    now the UCI is determined to let open a massive rift with its own stakeholders who - lets be clear about this - effectively pay Pat's salary, over a quite technical matter which to my mind isn't worth fighting about.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    To my mind it's a spectator sport and they are trying to make it a better spectacle.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • dcjdcj Posts: 395
    thats fair enough tom.

    however, where is the reliable compelling hard data used by the UCI to show how the spectacle will improve?

    most people don't go through life provoking and enduring major stress unless there is an overwhelming benefit.

    i dont see the UCI have anything like that factual credibility to warrant their dogmatic focus on this issue.
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,101
    Frankly, not one is forcing Jens (or any other rider for that matter) to participate. If the riders doen't like the rules the governing body has put in place, then quit. Vote with your (cleated) feet! Something tells me there will be thousands of riders/dozens of teams more than willing to take his place.

    Next the riders will saying HRM/SRMs can't be withdrawn, becuase it may cause widespread heart-attacks/coronary episodes as riders won't be able to tell when they're maxed out.
  • dcjdcj Posts: 395
    thing is, the riders and the teams are major stakeholders and have value in the process.

    the governing body has to answer to its shareholders.
    if the UCI want to take a position and make unpopular or unviable rules, things can happen to them.

    for one recent example of what happens when you ignore your stakeholders try Col Gadaffi :shock:

    edit: in the meantime this issue is creating instability and negative publicity, distracting focus away from the other far more pressing issues the UCI need to solve first.
  • squiredsquired Posts: 1,216
    If no race radios led to more exciting racing and more money in the sport I'm sure the moaning riders would be first in the queue to get a piece of the pie. On the other hand, if continued racing with radios bored viewers to death and viewing figures fell, so would the money available. Again, the riders would be the first to complain.

    For me one of the most important things (far more than anything like race radios) for exciting racing is the course. That is part of the reason why the Giro is often better than the Tour. The stages in the 2010 Vuelta were well designed and allowed far more exciting racing. Look at what happened in the 2010 Tour of Britain thanks to the harder, well thought out course.

    Racing on a typical Tour "mountain" stage with the final climb 100km from the finish isn't likely to be different with or without radios. On more undulating stages with narrow twisty roads I can imagine that they could allow for some additional excitement.
  • eiger30eiger30 Posts: 39
    To my mind it's a spectator sport and they are trying to make it a better spectacle.

    Quite true, without us watching there would be no sport. I was at the Samyn on Wednesday with my wife and we were over the moon when we heard the break had failed with 6km to go. Reason was we were standing on the finish line and wanted to see a no holds barred sprint (didn't get that though) a long with the other thousand people lining the last 750 metres. No radios at this race as it was a 1.1 not a WC.

    I have not really got a problem with racing with or without radios. I don't remember it being more exciting in the past and I don't remember every stage of a Grand Tour being one by a soloist. Riders know who is a danger up the road without the DS telling them because everyone marks someone and the riders talk with each other. Some stages/races are just to presigious, Le Tour in Bordeaux is and has always been a bunch sprint, RVV was and still is designed to not end up in a bunch sprint, Milan-San Remo keep trying to put hills in the way of the sprinters so that they don't get a bunch sprint but the sprinters count that as their Monument of the spring.

    Radios are the least of our worries at the moment, why are so few people talking about the stupid UCI approved frame stickers and the cost to small frame builders.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,774
    AIGCP reject the ban

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7656/ ... inded.aspx

    All of the teams now, even Madiot on side.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 14,001
    May 1st means the drastic action will probably involve the torpedoing the Giro.
    Bet ATOC won't be in their crosshairs.
    Or am I just being too cynical again?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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