Jens Voigt goes weird

takethehighroad

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voigt-calls-for-worlds-boycott-over-radio-ban

"Imagine all the world's journalists were suddenly told: From now on, do not use laptops, the Internet or pencils. Would you consider taking it seriously? Of course not!"

No Jens, if it was that ridiculous they'd say "From now on, don't use bikes to ride a bike race"

But they're not, tool.

mroli

He is a rider's rep. Most riders seem against getting rid of radios. So he's articulating what his peers want him to articulate

Maybe his opinion is also swayed by his bad fall in the 2009 TdF - I'm sure that race radio could have played a role in ensuring he got treatment quickly/riders didn't plough into the back of him as he lay unconscious on the floor.

Think "tool" is incredibly harsh. You could still be a journalist without the laptop, the internet or pencils. You could use a typewriter, dictate or a pen. It would be hard to ride a bike race without a bike.

takethehighroad

You can still be a rider without a race radio.

Taking out radios doesn't mean people will die, and the fact that he had a bad crash shouldn't change anything.

I'd imagine radios played little to no part in that crash, as the motorbikes and cars following would offer enough of a barrier to anyone coming from behind.

LangerDan

Of course its nothing to do with the fact that, without a race radio, Andy Schleck would seem to be very tactically exposed.

I'm looking forward to Jens future boycott threats on matters which, unlike the absence of race radio, have actually cost lives. Like doping.

nolf

That seems an overly angry topic thread/argument cnsidering he was just voicing an opinion that many riders have voiced....

Suggesting he's not focusing on something that matters, compared to "an issue which actually cost lives. Like doping" is an unusual argument.

You know that hundreds have been killed in Libya right?

LangerDan

nolf wrote:

That seems an overly angry topic thread/argument cnsidering he was just voicing an opinion that many riders have voiced....

Suggesting he's not focusing on something that matters, compared to "an issue which actually cost lives. Like doping" is an unusual argument.

You know that hundreds have been killed in Libya right?

It was Jens himself that raised the spectre of a race radio ban costing lives.

"If we just get a single fatal accident, the price is already too high for something that someone thinks will make the sport more interesting," Voigt warns. "I would rather have a boring race where everyone is happy and alive, and [a rider] can come home and embrace his parents and say, ‘Hi mum and dad. I'm alive.'"

I was merely pointing out that if Jens feels the need to protest about aspects of professional cycling on the grounds they risk the health of riders, then something that has actually resulted in the deaths of his fellow competitors might be a more suitable target.

Quite what Libya has to with any of this, I'm not sure.

mroli

Sorry, right, we appear to have got two different topics here -

1) Why doesn't Jens Voigt shut up about radios and take a stand against doping. I think that Jens Voigt is pretty anti-doping and one of the more vocal riders about it in the peloton?

2) That race radios do not prevent danger for riders - I think that it is quite clear that a number of riders believe that it does.

Again, Jens is a riders rep - a union leader if you like - and is voicing the concerns of his "constituents". They are most worried about race radios and security at the moment. A journalist can still do his job without the internet, a pencil and a computer, so TTHR's analogy is false imho. I think the phrase "protesting" is OTT - he has expressed his opinion and that of many riders. People are always complaining about the UCI not allowing technical innovations - obviously some riders believe race radios fall in that category.

Jens is a cool guy, but I think sorting out LIbya is probably beyond him...

Tom Butcher

No I think it's a fair point. As a riders' rep I can't remember hearing him say much about doping - something that has cost several lives - so it does sort of weaken his argument when he starts saying they should boycott races because removing radios is dangerous.

Race radios are implicated in at least one high profile death in the peloton anyway - and it seems more likely to me that radios pose more danger than any purpose they serve as a safety measure.

RichN95.

mroli wrote:

Again, Jens is a riders rep - a union leader if you like - and is voicing the concerns of his "constituents".

Is he still the rep though? I read an interview with Eisel praising Jens for being a good rep, but lamenting he wasn't one anymore saying that that the thought it was Gilbert and Cioni and they weren't very good. Maybe Jens has been re-instated.

pedro118118

JV needs to get some perspective - he is being very melodramatic about the role radios play in 'saving lives' - turn it in. His own crash, whilst horrific, was caused by rider error and there was a TV bike following the lead bunch (as there always is) to ensure swift treatment.

Most fans don't see radios as being an essential tool of the trade, so he's trying to sway opinion with a flawed analogy.

I really do think the riders should just get on with it - they can receive time-checks via the motorbikes/team cars and safety guidence in the race manuals. Everything else, improvise...

mroli

Pedro - that's fine as long as you are in the lead bunch. What if you're not and you crash? Next ride along can send a warning.

What if road conditions change between the time the race manual is prepared and the race?

I understand that a lot of fans believe that radios are not an essential tool of the trade, but you could say the same about bike computers, power measuring equipment - hell some people claim that gears are unecessary! This isn't really about the fans either - Jens is coming out with the pros position. I'm not a pro, so can't comment, don't really have a position on race radios either way, but do respect (and admire) the fact that Jens expresses an opinion and does so in a entertaining and forceful way.

To call him a "tool" for doing so (as per TTHR's first post) is, dare I say, a trifle harsh....

rick_chasey

What would Jens say to a 1 way system - a generic feed to tell them the dangers ahead?

calvjones

mroli wrote:

Sorry, right, we appear to have got two different topics here -

1) Why doesn't Jens Voigt shut up about radios and take a stand against doping. I think that Jens Voigt is pretty anti-doping and one of the more vocal riders about it in the peloton?

Has he said anything about Bertie out of interest?

LangerDan

calvjones wrote:

mroli wrote:

Sorry, right, we appear to have got two different topics here -

1) Why doesn't Jens Voigt shut up about radios and take a stand against doping. I think that Jens Voigt is pretty anti-doping and one of the more vocal riders about it in the peloton?

Has he said anything about Bertie out of interest?

I would imagine that on July 19th, as Bertie attacked a chainless Andy Schleck and Jens saw his share of the first-place money disappear over the top of the Port de Balès he probably said many, many things about Bertie.

I don't think he made any comment about Bertie and his unfortunate meal of drug-addled cow.

squired

I personally don't like his comment about not having radios making riding more dangerous. One of the most dangerous parts of a race is when there is a sprint finish, as too many people take too many risks. Who makes it dangerous? The riders.

If riders don't have radios during a race they can decide to pay attention to their surroundings or ignore them. As others in the sport have mentioned, a call on the radio about an upcoming hazard is dangerous in itself because everyone suddenly tries to get to the front of the peloton.

I can't remember back to who did what when helmet use was forced on riders, but was Jens wearing one (even on mountains) prior to the ruling saying they had to be worn?

skavanagh.bikeradar

<forumignornancemodeon> I remember somone saying on here that Jens was against the introduction of helmets. But I'm quoting a 3rd party that I don't remember, so don't bet your mortgate on it. </forumignorancemodeoff>

dougzz

Isn't it the case that many riders were really angry when it became compulsory to wear helmets? Surely a much bigger safety feature than radio's. I can't help thinking the safety angle is vastly overplayed.

pedro118118

Where is the evidence to suggest that radios make racing safer?
It seem complete speculation and any evidence purely anecdotal.

I think it's fair to assume that, without radios, riders may moderate their syle/tactics, having regard to the inherent dangers of high-speed bike racing, rather than rely on the DS to advise them it's raining or there is a roudabout coming up - riders need to open their eyes and take stock!

Jens is protecting the position of Jens and his team. A team like Leopard, with high expectations and strong GT GC ambitions, stand to gain more benefit from radios, as they assist greatly in measuring effort and protecting jerseys in stage races. And in ITTs, where regular time-checks and DS direction is extrememely helpful.

If safety is such a massive issue, then why don't they all have one-way radios, with the only feed being safety/course/weather updates from an officialo/independent race source? Perfect, as the riders/DSs would have someone else to blame (even better a race official) for their own tactical blunders.

Cleat Eastwood

LangerDan wrote:

calvjones wrote:

mroli wrote:

Sorry, right, we appear to have got two different topics here -

1) Why doesn't Jens Voigt shut up about radios and take a stand against doping. I think that Jens Voigt is pretty anti-doping and one of the more vocal riders about it in the peloton?

Has he said anything about Bertie out of interest?

I would imagine that on July 19th, as Bertie attacked a chainless Andy Schleck and Jens saw his share of the first-place money disappear over the top of the Port de Balès he probably said many, many things about Bertie.

I don't think he made any comment about Bertie and his unfortunate meal of drug-addled cow.

iainf72

mroli wrote:

1) Why doesn't Jens Voigt shut up about radios and take a stand against doping. I think that Jens Voigt is pretty anti-doping and one of the more vocal riders about it in the peloton?

Nah, I wouldn't say that....

avoidingmyphd

pedro118118 wrote:

Where is the evidence [about the thing I disagree with]

I think it's fair to assume [the thing I think]

hmm

dougzz

avoidingmyphd wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

Where is the evidence [about the thing I disagree with]

I think it's fair to assume [the thing I think]

hmm

In fairness isn't this pretty much how we all think.

Pokerface

Can someone (anyone) explain how radios 'save lives' or make racing safer?

TMR

Can someone (anyone) explain why we have to justify the use of radios? As Brian Holm said in Chasing Legends 'It was probably some shitty little French team who didn't win anything, so they started crying'.

The fact is that the teams are used to having radios. If a particular team doesn't want to use them, then that should be their choice, but don't force those teams that do wish to use them to stop doing so.

takethehighroad

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Can someone (anyone) explain why we have to justify the use of radios? As Brian Holm said in Chasing Legends 'It was probably some shitty little French team who didn't win anything, so they started crying'.

The fact is that the teams are used to having radios. If a particular team doesn't want to use them, then that should be their choice, but don't force those teams that do wish to use them to stop doing so.

Just like drugs, eh?

Maybe I was harsh to call him a tool, but it's not the brightest thing to say that banning radios will cost lives

TMR

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Just like drugs, eh?

Maybe I was harsh to call him a tool, but it's not the brightest thing to say that banning radios will cost lives

No, not like drugs.

He's human, and as prone to speaking before forming sensible arguments as any of us. Nice sig BTW - love Chasing Legends. Brian & Rolf are a great double act

Tusher

Jens began in the old East Germany, therefore I would be surprised if he wasn't doped as a junior.

pedro118118

Aren't the UCI trying to make the whole thing a more even playing field with the proposed abolition of radios? The theory being that there is more emphasys on the riders making decisions/dictating tactics (I think). What could possibly be wrong with this objective?

There have been comments/tweets from this season's sans radio races, stating, "...no radios, same result.." or other such glib response, but it should be given a proper chance.

Why were radios introduced in the first place? By Motorola, I gather - it certainly wasn't to protect rider safety!

Of course, the first instance of a serious crash, the teams will all be knocking on the UCI's door stating that the crash would've been avoided if radios were in use etc etc......riders crash in bad weather/collide with street furniture now, because the speed/compactness of the peleton.

We've gone full circle - the teams/riders should just get on with it.

greasedscotsman

Just a thought, but if the Worlds gets boycotted, as Voigt and a few other riders have suggested, how does this affect Cavendish in what could be his best chance to get a World RR title?

RichN95.

OK, this radio stuff. I'm struggling to see why there is a fuss. It seems that most fans are anti-radio, but I fail to see why.

There seems to be a general opinion that the removal of radios will bring back the 'glory days' of racing. But did these days ever really happen? Nostalgia dictates that we remember the great moments and forget the trash. The reality is that it was probably not much more spectacular than it is now.

Then there's the question - did tactics change just because of radios? I think not. There have been many changes over the last 20 years - TV, globalisation, doping, different team targets and composition, heart rate monitors, power monitors. These and more evolved the sport, not just radios.

Generally sports have become more negative and conservative with their tactics in the last 20 years (cricket being an exception).

The UCI radio ban seems to me a simplistic attempt to recapture a golden age which probably never actually happened.

I say keep the radios, but make their broadcasts available to TV.

iainf72

^^^
this