Component Longevity and Service Intervals

rjsterry

Kind of on-topic: I'm still running a 7-speed cassette as my Shimano RSX shifters are still going (touch wood), but as UE pointed out, finding 7-speed kit is increasingly difficult. Wiggle/CRC have a choice of about three 7-speed cassettes: a couple of cheap & heavy 11-28T Shimano versions - a bit gappy for London riding - and a Miche 16-24T, which is missing any high or low gears.

Anyone know where I can find a 7sp 12-21T or similar? Or should I be going for an 8sp cassette and not using one of the sprockets?

SimonAH

Aaah *leans back comfortably in chair* rough calculation is roughly 4000 miles on my belt drive so far and the belt isn't showing any signs of wear I can detect. Neither are the 'sprockets' (they are coated with a pvd thin film if you're technically minded).

Oil applied to brake pivot point (one brake), headset, bottom bracket and hubs on roughly a monthly basis.

Bike cleaned weekly (takes sub 10 minutes to sparkly, involves one wet rag and a bit of warm soapy water).

Tyre pressures checked ~twice a week?

Damn it, this heavy maintenance regime kills me

Levi_501

I thought I was the only bu99er still using 7 spped !

I too, am finding it a nightmare find parts. My SLX (I think) gear levers are still going strong, but having to llok even harder and harder for cassettes.

We should start a petition to get Shiamno to re-introduce 7 speed. What I like about it is you are no caring 'copy gears' and the setup is not so sensative, ideal for commuting.

BTW, new bike on page 42 of cummter bike picture thread.

rolf_f

SimonAH wrote:

Damn it, this heavy maintenance regime kills me

If you got an old school road bike you'd have virtually the same maintenance regime but you would be always in the right gear

gtvlusso

SimonAH wrote:

Aaah *leans back comfortably in chair* rough calculation is roughly 4000 miles on my belt drive so far and the belt isn't showing any signs of wear I can detect. Neither are the 'sprockets' (they are coated with a pvd thin film if you're technically minded).

Oil applied to brake pivot point (one brake), headset, bottom bracket and hubs on roughly a monthly basis.

Bike cleaned weekly (takes sub 10 minutes to sparkly, involves one wet rag and a bit of warm soapy water).

Tyre pressures checked ~twice a week?

Damn it, this heavy maintenance regime kills me

Whats this word "clean"?????

wgwarburton

Hi,
This is a perennial problem with utility bikes- current componentry is made for leisure/recreational riding, not daily use in crap weather. Shimano would rather you "upgraded" to their current tech and replaced it annually.

The future may be hub-geared.

Cheers,
W.

rjsterry

A bit of reading up on Sheldon, and it seems likely that an 8sp cassette would work with 7sp shifters (with one redundant sprocket). Fitting a 7sp cassette onto an 8/9sp freehub requires a 4.5mm spacer according to Sheldon (the bit that broke and fell off my wheel last night).

ETA: Aha! if I get a 12-25T 8sp cassette, that would give me either 12-23T or 13-25T for slightly hillier terrain. I could p[otentially swap back and forth, but re-indexing repeatedly doesn't sound like fun.

rolf_f

Touring 7 speed cassettes not a bother at least. Picked one from the reasonable range at Spa Cycles only a few weeks ago.

Edit - the 8 speed cassette would work. I think you get a spacer with 7 speed cassettes to account for the difference in width. My only problem was that you are supposed to put the spacer between the cassette and hub - but that left too little clearance for the small sprocket. So, I put the spacer between cassette and lockring instead and all works fine.

mudcovered

Rolf F wrote:

Touring 7 speed cassettes not a bother at least. Picked one from the reasonable range at Spa Cycles only a few weeks ago.

Edit - the 8 speed cassette would work. I think you get a spacer with 7 speed cassettes to account for the difference in width. My only problem was that you are supposed to put the spacer between the cassette and hub - but that left too little clearance for the small sprocket. So, I put the spacer between cassette and lockring instead and all works fine.

That works fine if you are putting the 7spd casette on an 8/9 freehub. If you still have a 7spd freehub then it is new hub/wheel time if you want to move to an 8spd cassette.

Putting the spacer between the lockring & the sprokets will be potentially problematic if you have an 11 tooth sproket. Depending on the spacer the chain might end up catching on it.

I ran 7spd on 8 for a few years but I had the clearance to put the spacer where it belongs. If you don't have the clearance for the space where it is supposed to go you will run into trouble if you ever convert to 9spd.

Mike

rolf_f

The tourer is 21 speed. I can honestly say, I have never felt it was missing out in terms of number of sprockets. Obviously it isn't as highly geared as the roadbikes though.

I think the reason the spacer didn't work in the right place is that the dropout is fitted with a saver that reduces clearance. Not a lot but just enough. Not sure how the original setup worked without such problems though. If I couldn't source 7 speed cassettes, I could just use an 8 without spacer and ignore the smallest sprocket.

rjsterry

Aside from begging from the LBS bits box, anyone know where you can obtain said spacers?

rolf_f

rjsterry wrote:

Aside from begging from the LBS bits box, anyone know where you can obtain said spacers?

Here you go: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 7s150p1331



(not sure what the thing in the pic is though!)

snailracer

Mudguards and a front mudflap, long enough to stop spray being thrown from the front tyre onto the chainwheel, will extend the life of your transmission.

rjsterry

Rolf F wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Aside from begging from the LBS bits box, anyone know where you can obtain said spacers?

Here you go: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 7s150p1331



(not sure what the thing in the pic is though!)

Ta for that.

Herbsman

Looking at this thread it seems I'm OK to replace my chain (I've done about 3,000 miles on it) but leave the cassette on if it shows no obvious signs of wear?

CyclingBantam

Herbsman wrote:

Looking at this thread it seems I'm OK to replace my chain (I've done about 3,000 miles on it) but leave the cassette on if it shows no obvious signs of wear?

In a word. Yes.

It will save you having to replace your cassette as often. If you keep running your current chain you will eventually have to change both.

Once your new chain has done 300 miles you can then swap back to the old one again for a bit, alternatively you might even get a third new one on and then give each of them a little more time each until you get problems.

mudcow007

how do you know when a cassette has worn or is it just a case of when the chain slips an you smack your knee on the stem?

wgwarburton

Hi,
When the chain wears it will start to skip on lightly used sprockets. A chain wears faster than the sprockets so you replace it first- If you replace it with a new one and it skips on the worn sprockets instead, then your cassette needs repair or replacement. Mostly these days people just replace the whole thing.

If you spread the usage across sprockets then the differential wear is smaller.

The idea behind rotating chains is that the chains wear along with the cassette, so you aim to start with new ones, and swap them frequently as the cassette wears. The chains wear at the same rate as the cassette and each other so you can use all of them together for longer.

Ideally, you work out how long your chainrings will last (eg twice as long as a cassette) then how long the cassettes last (eg three times as long as a chain). You then equip yourself with two cassettes and six chains.
Planned service life of the drivetrain is, say, six years. You use the first cassette for the first year, swapping chains every couple of months, then the other new cassette for the next year, along with its three chains, swapped every couple of months.
Go back to cassette 1 and its chains for the third year, cassette 2 and its chains for year 3 etc.
At the end of year six you replace the whole drivetrain: rings, two cassettes and six chains, having got the full service life out of each component, and start again. You can probably expect relatively poor "performance" towards the end of this cycle.

Similar strategies can obviously be used for FG/SS applications, if you go through sprockets or chains faster than chainrings. My current experience is that my 3/32 alloy rings don't significantly outlast my 1/8" steel sprockets. It might be worth swapping chains regularly but the parts are quite cheap and I don't have a lot of time... If you are spending big money on ultra-narrow chains & 10/11-speed drivetrain parts it's a different story, especially if (?) they wear out faster because there's so little metal in them.

Cheers,
W.

sketchley

Do components of higher end groupsets wear faster or slower then cheaper ones.

So in terms of wear is 105 better than ultegra or the other way round etc etc.
How to manufacturers stack up in terms of wear Is sram better than Shimano? What about campag?

Example is should I spend 200 more buying a planet x with sram red instead of rival. I doubt I'd notice that much difference but would red be cheaper in long run as it's stronger so wears less?

jzed

Sketchley wrote:

Do components of higher end groupsets wear faster or slower then cheaper ones.

So in terms of wear is 105 better than ultegra or the other way round etc etc.
How to manufacturers stack up in terms of wear Is sram better than Shimano? What about campag?

Example is should I spend 200 more buying a planet x with sram red instead of rival. I doubt I'd notice that much difference but would red be cheaper in long run as it's stronger so wears less?

May wear a little better but the main difference is going to be 1) weight and 2) performance. Oh and cost.....

mudcovered

JZed wrote:

May wear a little better but the main difference is going to be 1) weight and 2) performance. Oh and cost.....

Actually the higher end stuff is likely to wear much more quickly in some cases. A 105 cassette has cogs made of steel. Ultegra & up use aluminium which is softer so will wear more quickly.

Mike

sketchley

Why not make the higher end stuff out of something stronger then......

jzed

Sketchley wrote:

Why not make the higher end stuff out of something stronger then......

Everything is a trade off between weight, cost and durability

sketchley

I guessed that answer. To rephrase the question.

Surely there is a material that's light enough for the high end kit while also strong enough to improve wear rates over heavier lower end kit?

As I'm not to fused about weight as loosing my gut will out do any component savings it makes sense to go for lower end kit as it will last longer and be cheaper to replace. Bizarre product strategy that.

notsoblue

Sketchley wrote:

I guessed that answer. To rephrase the question.

Surely there is a material that's light enough for the high end kit while also strong enough to improve wear rates over heavier lower end kit?

As I'm not to fused about weight as loosing my gut will out do any component savings it makes sense to go for lower end kit as it will last longer and be cheaper to replace. Bizarre product strategy that.

I hear SRAM are unveiling their new Unobtainium gruppo this summer... With regards to cost/longevity, its not a tight correlation. Cheap, bottom of the range gear won't last long either. Its about picking the right equipment for the job, if you want longevity and robustness in your gearset then you'd go for something like a rholoff hub. SRAM Red etc... aren't designed to last ages, they're designed to be light and precise. Not for riding to work

jzed

Sketchley wrote:

I guessed that answer. To rephrase the question.

Surely there is a material that's light enough for the high end kit while also strong enough to improve wear rates over heavier lower end kit?

As I'm not to fused about weight as loosing my gut will out do any component savings it makes sense to go for lower end kit as it will last longer and be cheaper to replace. Bizarre product strategy that.

Yeah, and if you decide to upgrade later you can.

As an example a SRAM Force casette is about 50 notes and weighs around 220g. The red is about 150 notes and weights around 150grammes.

They reckon that they have used a more durable metal for the red whilst getting the weight reduction - hence the price.

snailracer

Sketchley wrote:

I guessed that answer. To rephrase the question.

Surely there is a material that's light enough for the high end kit while also strong enough to improve wear rates over heavier lower end kit?

As I'm not to fused about weight as loosing my gut will out do any component savings it makes sense to go for lower end kit as it will last longer and be cheaper to replace. Bizarre product strategy that.

The "low end" and "high end" definitions you are bandying about only really apply in a bicycle racing context, and commuting is not racing.

bails87

snailracer wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

I guessed that answer. To rephrase the question.

Surely there is a material that's light enough for the high end kit while also strong enough to improve wear rates over heavier lower end kit?

As I'm not to fused about weight as loosing my gut will out do any component savings it makes sense to go for lower end kit as it will last longer and be cheaper to replace. Bizarre product strategy that.

The "low end" and "high end" definitions you are bandying about only really apply in a bicycle racing context, and commuting is not racing.

Compare an F1 car and a diesel van. One is lighter, faster and more expensive but won't last as long. The cheaper one may last longer, but it's relatively slow and heavy. If you're racing you're probably happy to put up with the more frequent replacement because of the weight and performance improvements.

clarkey cat

and commuting is not racing.

I don't understand... :?

snailracer

bails87 wrote:

...Compare an F1 car and a diesel van. One is lighter, faster and more expensive but won't last as long. The cheaper one may last longer, but it's relatively slow and heavy. If you're racing you're probably happy to put up with the more frequent replacement because of the weight and performance improvements.

Driving a F1 car on the road would have awesome comedy value. No indicators, so it would get stranded every time it needed to change lanes. The clutch would burn out in short order. No starter, so you'd have to wait for a support vehicle if it stalls. No headlights, so no driving at night. No handbrake, so would roll back on hillstarts. Rubbish turning circle, so would have to "donut" around corners. No reverse gear. Would get grounded on every speedbump, etc.