Olympic XC Race

cloudynights

guess i must be fortunate to have long steep technical rides where i live and close too me, so maybe i view the olympic course as a little easy, will just have to wait till the olympics are upon us and see what the competitors views are

njee20

You really are trying to be stupid aren't you? You've not ridden it, you're judging it on photos, so it's completely irrelevant what's local to you. And anyway, whilst I find riding in Wales and the like good fun occasionally I personally much prefer my local (Surrey Hils) riding - there's the same amount of climbing, it's just not done in 30 minute chunks, you don't get the slogging up a dull straight fireroad and I prefer the variety of trails. The average northern trail - being a rocky doubletrack stretching across the moorland as far as the eye can see makes me want to cry with boredom! You can keep that!

Anyway, this is a race course, it's not somewhere to ride - I agree it would make a poor trail centre, it's designed to be ridden in <15 minutes for a start. As a general rule, places that are fun to ride are not good to race. I've done an XC race that was 3 laps of Cwmcarn - a great place to ride. The race was utter toss - nowhere to overtake, and those stupid motorbike gates causing bunching.

This will suit its intended purpose very well, there are some excellent technical features, and the multiple lines will make for great racing! I've got my tickets and I can't wait! It'll be all the better for not having whinging morons like yourself there pointing out how much quicker your 2 year old would be on their balance bike with their hands tied behind their back!xx

Thewaylander

I still think XC events make biking look pretty silluy compared to alot of outdoor sports, nowt is gonna change that. And people are allowed to enjoy what ever they want.

But I don't agree on the short climbs being that challenging, after riding round the new FTD in cannock, there are loads of little climbs on that and i felt like i'd hardly ridden at the end I think that is one of my issues with the short 5km Courses, though theya re advantagous to spectators, it can be hard to fit a bunch of decent accents in to really stretch peoples legs out

njee20

Courses have always been roughly that length, they've not got that much shorter really.

Have you ever done any racing? I assure you that you don't need one long climb to make a course tough. In fact, lots of little climbs can be tougher because it's unrelenting. If you have one long hill it's all done with, then you get a long descent to recover, then you hit the climb again, very dull.

If you rode FTD without feeling tired then good for you, you're obviously quite fit, but if you can finish an XC race without feeling tired you've not tried hard enough - whether it's pan flat, or in the Alps! Come and race Sherwood Pines next year, it's very flat, and pretty dull, but at average speeds of 15mph for 2 hours it's still hard work!

It is different when you're riding, one doesn't tend to attack climbs in the same way, you'll climb a 2 minute climb at the same pace you would a 30 minute one, where as in racing you'll sit down and grind out a 30 minute one, but sprint up a 2 minute one.

cloudynights

its real easy to wind some folk up, lets hope the video and pictures dont do it justice

agg25

Cloudynights, which part of LONDON Olympics did you not get? Beijing and Sydney mountain bike courses were equally as crap.

cloudynights

guess that must make it ok then, lets always follow whats gone before us god help any body who dare stick there head above the parapet and do something different, no worries lets play it safe

cloudynights

not wanting to shoot anybody down about this in london olympics thing, would anyone care to find out where 9 football matches are to be held including 2 semi finals. 3 points for the correct answer

cloudynights

this one will make you laugh talk about funny, who will be the host of the first olympic event for the london 2012 olympic games double points for this one

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

But I don't agree on the short climbs being that challenging, after riding round the new FTD in cannock, there are loads of little climbs on that and i felt like i'd hardly ridden at the end

You rode them at olympic pace obviously.

cloudynights

olympic pace seems to be get off and carry your bike up any knarly uphill, thats just what ive seen from any video or on tv

njee20

Assume your name is on the start sheet then?

Do you really think you're a better climber than an Olympic XC racer?!

I assume you're now gonna say "aaaah, I was only kidding, LOL ROFL PMSL, you're all so stupid!!!!!1111one!!111eleven11!!!" and we'll all be so impressed by your hilarious trolling! :roll:

Do you do any racing? The National Championships aren't far from you, I imagine Oli and Liam would enjoy a schooling in how to climb, I look forward to seeing you in the results!

As an aside... the regional football stadia being used is about the infrastructure. You have to have separate routes (called the Olympic Route Network) for the media/athletes/coaches etc to the public from their accomodation, if you do that for all the football stadia in London you rather quickly shut down the whole of London for the sake of one event, which isn't sensible. It may surprise you that there's a little more thought in the Olympics than a whole load of mutually exclusive events held vaguely near some host city.

cloudynights

could you point out to me where i said i was better than a olympic racer?

to play football matches in coventry, newcastle, manchester, and cardiff i understand the logic in freeing up space in london to a certain degree still not a point you can really argue on though, it is the london olympics as people keep saying on here, if however you follow your logic that certain football matches are fine to play in the places ive said then why does a mountain biking event have to be held in a farmers field in essex

ollie51

cloudynights wrote:

could you point out to me where i said i was better than a olympic racer?

You could very easily make the inference, as well as from a process of denomination.

cloudynights

yeah whatever
still being held in a farmers field great advertisement for uk mountain biking

njee20

yeah whatever

Great argument. Well done, you've now mastered the 'stroppy teenager' as well as the 'arrogant Northerner'.

if however you follow your logic that certain football matches are fine to play in the places ive said then why does a mountain biking event have to be held in a farmers field in essex

Huh? Where's the logic there? The medal football matches are being held in London. The mountain biking is being held at a venue as close to London as they could manage. The elevation will make for interesting racing. The fact it's open will make it good for spectators and TV cameras, there's room to get the media and what not in, they've been able to make a course exactly as they want. It makes a lot of sense!

Where would you have it? That's a serious question? Bear in mind that a course must be <20 minutes, and there's nothing more boring than watching (and this really matters for the Olympics) riders pedal into the distance and return once a lap, so it must be a cloverleaf type design.

Thewaylander

Northwind wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

But I don't agree on the short climbs being that challenging, after riding round the new FTD in cannock, there are loads of little climbs on that and i felt like i'd hardly ridden at the end

You rode them at olympic pace obviously.

I'm just pointing out it's not representative of the sport, and that XC races aren't. Plus i'm not saying you need one long climb Njee, what i'm saying you need to gain and lose so much alltitude for a good test climbing skill and so on, If the overall climb of the lap is fairly low, then it's not got any challenging decent/climb You need to gain a fair bit and go down a few times.

If its purely down to how fast you can pedal round a flat track... well in my veiw we have road riding and indoor tracks for that.

I will wait on seeing the course for real to comment on it, but i just feel the cross country format offers very little other than a fitness challenge not unlike road riding, or indoor track. and certainly doesn't give the sport a great image at the olympics.

People i know who have seen images and are not bikers just laugh at it currently and thats not the image we want to project for an event that is largely supported by people outside the sport.


These are of course my opinion, and feel free to be rude and childish as Northwind was above.

Tom BB

Thewaylander wrote:

But I don't agree on the short climbs being that challenging, after riding round the new FTD in cannock, there are loads of little climbs on that and i felt like i'd hardly ridden at the end

Have you ever ridden a race? There's a difference between riding a lap of Follow Yer Dad, and racing for an hour and half-two hours fella. If you felt like you'd 'hardly ridden' at the end, then ride faster.....I use it to train to race on.....I'm generally fecked at the end of a training session.....and I've been steadily improving in my race's too

shm_uk

Thewaylander wrote:

I'm just pointing out it's not representative of the sport, and that XC races aren't.

It is representative of XC racing though. Which is what the Olympics event is.

The Olympic XC race is a very specific event, and has been catered for by creating a very specific track.

Trail riding, or general mountain biking (or whatever you want to call it) isn't representative of Olympic XC racing.

Stiff_Orange

Tom BB wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

But I don't agree on the short climbs being that challenging, after riding round the new FTD in cannock, there are loads of little climbs on that and i felt like i'd hardly ridden at the end

Have you ever ridden a race? There's a difference between riding a lap of Follow Yer Dad, and racing for an hour and half-two hours fella. If you felt like you'd 'hardly ridden' at the end, then ride faster.....I use it to train to race on.....I'm generally fecked at the end of a training session.....and I've been steadily improving in my race's too

+1 I was going to say the same.

Stiff_Orange

shm_uk wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

I'm just pointing out it's not representative of the sport, and that XC races aren't.

It is representative of XC racing though. Which is what the Olympics event is.

The Olympic XC race is a very specific event, and has been catered for by creating a very specific track.

Trail riding, or general mountain biking (or whatever you want to call it) isn't representative of Olympic XC racing.

Interesting point, So what you saying is that for spectators like waylander who want to see people come down big hills at speed, we need some sort of "downhill" competion, perhaps even a world championships. But where are the biggest mountain..??? Fort William of course. I'll get onto the Lochaber tourist board an suggest it to them.

njee20

I'm just pointing out it's not representative of the sport, and that XC races aren't. Plus i'm not saying you need one long climb Njee, what i'm saying you need to gain and lose so much alltitude for a good test climbing skill and so on, If the overall climb of the lap is fairly low, then it's not got any challenging decent/climb You need to gain a fair bit and go down a few times.

But whether you have one long 1000ft climb (dull), or ten 100ft climbs (far more exciting) makes no difference to the overall amount of climbing!

As I said, I can see it's different when you're just riding, you plod up the hill, if the hill is long you run out of energy and find it harder work. If it's short you get regular respites and it feels easier. Racing is different. Seriously - try a race, a flat one, you'll either be very very slow, or you'll surprise yourself at how hard it is without vast amounts of elevation.

Plenty of people feel XC is not representative of what they think of as mountain biking, but frankly what most people think of as mountain biking isn't much of a sport - ride for a bit, stop, chat, ride a bit, go to the pub. It's no different to your overweight 40-somethings who go for a kick about in the park complaining the World Cup isn't representative of football... Downhill may be a better spectacle (I'm not denying that), but that's even further removed from what most people do!

Northwind

Basically, XC racing is to everyday trail riding, what Moto GP is to going out for a sunday motorbike ride. And I've never complained that Rossi doesn't have to dodge u-turning taxis and potholes the size of a dustbin.

Nobody complains that DH racing looks a bit fast and scary and is run on difficult courses, and that it's not much like doing a lazy lap of Glentress? It's so unrepresentative of everyday riding!

Thewaylander

njee20 wrote:

I'm just pointing out it's not representative of the sport, and that XC races aren't. Plus i'm not saying you need one long climb Njee, what i'm saying you need to gain and lose so much alltitude for a good test climbing skill and so on, If the overall climb of the lap is fairly low, then it's not got any challenging decent/climb You need to gain a fair bit and go down a few times.

But whether you have one long 1000ft climb (dull), or ten 100ft climbs (far more exciting) makes no difference to the overall amount of climbing!

As I said, I can see it's different when you're just riding, you plod up the hill, if the hill is long you run out of energy and find it harder work. If it's short you get regular respites and it feels easier. Racing is different. Seriously - try a race, a flat one, you'll either be very very slow, or you'll surprise yourself at how hard it is without vast amounts of elevation.


Plenty of people feel XC is not representative of what they think of as mountain biking, but frankly what most people think of as mountain biking isn't much of a sport - ride for a bit, stop, chat, ride a bit, go to the pub. It's no different to your overweight 40-somethings who go for a kick about in the park complaining the World Cup isn't representative of football... Downhill may be a better spectacle (I'm not denying that), but that's even further removed from what most people do!

You almost got my point here at the start, Im not on about a single climb I'm on about cumalative climb and that still needs to be solid

SHM if this isn't represntative of the sport as a whole why the hell are we putting it in the olympics?

As for the Downhill stuff where you say its not like most people ride, It is for alot of people, i know alot of downhillers, and most Down hill courses can be gotten down by most riders. And most riders i know would love to have a try. But ask them about an XC course most riders would say no they'd rather go ride a trail. I mean most of the local built trails in my area are more DH oreintated and there are alot of DH trails too.

I just don't think the sport should be represented completely in this way, if more discaplines were involved then fine, But since we only get one i would honestly rather see non at all.

njee20

You're pigeon holing spectacularly there - we've got 'XC' 'downhill' and 'trails' as 3 separate things.

What about XC courses that take in DH courses? Or are run at trail centres?

At risk of opening a whole other can of worms which has been done to death what most people ride is XC. Most people do not get uplifts, they ride up the hills, then they ride down them again. That is what XC is. In a race context there are slightly different considerations - you need fireroad/doubletrack to pass/drink, laps need to be short etc etc. That's not to say that that is what XC racers find interesting. If I'm riding I'd sooner not go near a fireroad, and I sure as hell don't want to do 20 minute laps of a trail, but that's not practical for a race.

The issue of representation is what Northwind and I said - most people's 'style' of mountain biking isn't really sport; a bunch of overweight middle aged men stopping and chatting, then drinking beer wouldn't really cut it as an Olympic event.

I personally think the sport as a whole is far better for getting even some exposure on the global stage - if you genuinely think that no good at all comes from having an Olympic XC event (or road, or track) then I really pity your naivety.

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

As for the Downhill stuff where you say its not like most people ride, It is for alot of people, i know alot of downhillers, and most Down hill courses can be gotten down by most riders. And most riders i know would love to have a try. But ask them about an XC course most riders would say no they'd rather go ride a trail.

Go to Fort William and see how many of the everyday riders are going round the XC world cup route, and how many are on the DH... From what I've seen most riders don't want to do downhill at all, they see it as something different from normal riding, it took me a lot of effort to get a couple of mates to even consider riding a "downhill trail" at Innerleithen at the weekend even though it was easier than some XC trails.

njee20

As for the Downhill stuff where you say its not like most people ride, It is for alot of people, i know alot of downhillers, and most Down hill courses can be gotten down by most riders

First off, Northwind +1

It is for alot of people, i know alot of downhillers

Linked?

most Down hill courses can be gotten down by most riders

2 assumptions there - and how many people want to just 'get down' stuff - there's a few who will garner enjoyment purely from the satisfaction of having survived it, but I'll wager more people would rather ride a fast flowing trail.

Thewaylander

This is not my experience in my loCal area, but then I guess we have the more severe terrain which lets us do this,

I know most people who do push up days, then uplifts, and the xc loops they do is to fit round the edges.

njee20

I know most people who do push up days, then uplifts, and the xc loops they do is to fit round the edges.

I'm not even sure what that means? I wonder how many people use Cwm Down compared to those riding the XC trail? Serious question. I suspect there's more people doing the XC.

Thewaylander

Actually though that would be interesting because alot of the locals i know have been using the black DH added in to the red instead of the end decent.