Tax heist of the century?
Comments
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What a surprise - Monibot shown up to be an ill-informed moron.0
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Adlerhorst wrote:I'll be brief on this (and I did not want my first post to be about tax), but suffice to say I know a fair bit about the topic as I have worked in the CT area for ten years now, and this article is without question the worst researched article I have ever read on the topic. It is actually worse than the private eye stuff on Vodafone (which missed the point massively as well).
All the branch exemption is doing is putting companies with overseas branches in the same place as had they had an overseas subsidiary. (i.e Dividends can be repatriated to the UK and not suffer additional tax in the UK), and also putting us in line with most of the rest of Europe who have a branch exemption.
Also, as ever, anti-avoidance legislation is in place to stop any flagrant abuse.
Also whilst I am not it any way a tory voter in any way shape or form, it should be noted that CT reform (which the branch exemption is a part of) was originally started under the last government, and the branch exemption idea has been kicking around for about two / three years now. To try and say this is a tory thing is utterly utterly wrong. Both parties were / are behind it.
What, not even a little bit?
I suspected as much. Monbiot's articles frequently seem to suffer from an eagerness to nail big business/oil/rightwing politics at the expense of getting the details right.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry wrote:
What, not even a little bit?
I suspected as much. Monbiot's articles frequently seem to suffer from an eagerness to nail big business/oil/rightwing politics at the expense of getting the details right.
Well, they've got to print something for me to line my dog's bed with.0 -
What's this "tax" you talk of?.
Beep Beep Richie.
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FCN +7 (Hanzo Fixed. Simple - for the commute)
FCN +10 (Loud and proud PA)0 -
Sewinman wrote:W1 wrote:What a surprise - Monibot shown up to be an ill-informed moron.
To be fair to Monbiot - who is to say the above posts are any more accurate? It fits with your view though - so they must be.
The posts above seem to appear to know what they're talking about, whereas Monibot is rehashing hand-wringing rubbish he want to be true and writing for an audience that wants to hear it.0 -
actually what is more surprising for me is that W1 just launched an attack at the guardian... if I am interpreting your above comments...
i often find we think similarily though you are slightly... more vocal than I shall we say
Goes to show the newspaper you read or hate MIGHT not mean you're a total dumbass...
However all believers [not all readers are believers] of the Daily Mail can eat pavement alla American History XLe Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
MonkeyMonster wrote:actually what is more surprising for me is that W1 just launched an attack at the guardian... if I am interpreting your above comments...
i often find we think similarily though you are slightly... more vocal than I shall we say
Goes to show the newspaper you read or hate MIGHT not mean you're a total dumbass...
However all believers [not all readers are believers] of the Daily Mail can eat pavement alla American History X
I think - but I'm not sure - that you might be calling me a dumbass! And you may have a point.
Suffice to say I can't stand the Guardian or the DM. Monibot particularly makes my teeth itch.
I find it hard to read any paper whilst scalping along the Embankment anyway.0 -
Article just sums up to me why I don't buy papers anymore, as the articles on both left and right sides are written by jurno's who don't understand what the hell they are talking about, simply political point scoring.
The UK will be a far better place once the likes of the Guardian and Mail fail.
Aside: Sure someone who posted on here said he was a personal freind of Monibot, maybe they could come to his rescue.0 -
W1 wrote:I find it hard to read any paper whilst scalping along the Embankment anyway.
Oooo bring out the big guns!
It's no secret that the Tories are pro business, and have less time for employees. It's a little dated marxist view, but it still largely rings true.
You can hear it in the rhetoric about people 'worknig for free' and making it easier for businesses to hire and fire etc.
It's also no secret that the tories get a lot of party funding from the City - as far as I am aware, considerably more than other parties (though I would imagine that balance has changed slighty post-blair).
What else would you expect? It'd be surprising if the party didn't have the support of the City, but they clearly do, and they're pandering to their base.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:I find it hard to read any paper whilst scalping along the Embankment anyway.
Oooo bring out the big guns!
It's no secret that the Tories are pro business, and have less time for employees. It's a little dated marxist view, but it still largely rings true.
You can hear it in the rhetoric about people 'worknig for free' and making it easier for businesses to hire and fire etc.
It's also no secret that the tories get a lot of party funding from the City - as far as I am aware, considerably more than other parties (though I would imagine that balance has changed slighty post-blair).
What else would you expect? It'd be surprising if the party didn't have the support of the City, but they clearly do, and they're pandering to their base.
Except - if you read the other posts - this was a Labour idea from 2009.....0 -
W1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:I find it hard to read any paper whilst scalping along the Embankment anyway.
Oooo bring out the big guns!
It's no secret that the Tories are pro business, and have less time for employees. It's a little dated marxist view, but it still largely rings true.
You can hear it in the rhetoric about people 'worknig for free' and making it easier for businesses to hire and fire etc.
It's also no secret that the tories get a lot of party funding from the City - as far as I am aware, considerably more than other parties (though I would imagine that balance has changed slighty post-blair).
What else would you expect? It'd be surprising if the party didn't have the support of the City, but they clearly do, and they're pandering to their base.
Except - if you read the other posts - this was a Labour idea from 2009.....
What's your point? They're not in power now...?0 -
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eh wrote:Article just sums up to me why I don't buy papers anymore, as the articles on both left and right sides are written by jurno's who don't understand what the hell they are talking about, simply political point scoring.
The UK will be a far better place once the likes of the Guardian and Mail fail.
Aside: Sure someone who posted on here said he was a personal freind of Monibot, maybe they could come to his rescue.
Political point scoring, eh? Which is different from your posts against anything leftwing because...
The Guardian have a fair few rightwing commentators contribute to the Comment section, unlike the DM. Just because you disagree with one of their regulars (he's usually in on a Tuesday as the lead article in the Comment section if you need to avoid him), it's hardly a reason to write off the whole paper.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:I find it hard to read any paper whilst scalping along the Embankment anyway.
Oooo bring out the big guns!
It's no secret that the Tories are pro business, and have less time for employees. It's a little dated marxist view, but it still largely rings true.
You can hear it in the rhetoric about people 'worknig for free' and making it easier for businesses to hire and fire etc.
It's also no secret that the tories get a lot of party funding from the City - as far as I am aware, considerably more than other parties (though I would imagine that balance has changed slighty post-blair).
What else would you expect? It'd be surprising if the party didn't have the support of the City, but they clearly do, and they're pandering to their base.
Except - if you read the other posts - this was a Labour idea from 2009.....
What's your point? They're not in power now...?0 -
W1 wrote:My point is - you can harp on about how it's all cushy between the tories and the City, but in this instance it was a Labour idea and Labour would have done the same thing. So are you going to have a moan about them being cushy with the City too?
Pretty much.
The point I guess I was making was that it's no surprise, since we definitely know the City loves the tories.
At least, in the office I sit they do. And the people I meet in the bars round here ... etc etc
I'd also suggest that Labour is likely to be a little more hostile to the City in future - since i think many of the Blarites, let alone those further left, feel they gave the City a good chance and they spoiled it.0 -
Financial services 10% share of UK GDP is higher than other major economies.
UK financial services employment picked up by 17,000 to reach 1.01m in the six months to September 2010.
Over 3,000 people are employed in financial services in 62 parliamentary constituencies, nearly 10% of all constituencies; with more than 1,000 people employed in financial services in 185 constituencies, 28% of the total.
Financial services generated a trade surplus of £40bn in 2009, expected to fall to around £36bn in 2010.
UK companies' earnings from FDI overseas, £8.2bn in 2009, have consistently exceeded foreign companies earnings from FDI in the UK, minus £2.5bn in 2009.
Out of 953 foreign companies authorised by the FSA 420 are US-owned, while in total there are 28 countries with ownership of at least 6 FSA authorised firms.
Tax take of UK financial services firms dropped to £53.4bn in 2009/10: still accounting for 11% of UK tax receipts.
http://www.thecityuk.com/what-we-do/rep ... -2010.aspx
Does anyone think an industry that pays 11% of UK tax receipts and contributes 10% of GDP should be discouraged?Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.
What would Thora Hurd do?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:My point is - you can harp on about how it's all cushy between the tories and the City, but in this instance it was a Labour idea and Labour would have done the same thing. So are you going to have a moan about them being cushy with the City too?
Pretty much.
The point I guess I was making was that it's no surprise, since we definitely know the City loves the tories.
At least, in the office I sit they do. And the people I meet in the bars round here ... etc etc
I'd also suggest that Labour is likely to be a little more hostile to the City in future - since i think many of the Blarites, let alone those further left, feel they gave the City a good chance and they spoiled it.
Not from my experience, as someone that works at an investment bank. Seems to be a fairly even/healthy mix of posh toffs and scummy students (naturally there's no middle ground).
Tories love the tories certainly. If by 'the City' you mean tories that work in the City then yes.
/Tautology0 -
W1 wrote:I think - but I'm not sure - that you might be calling me a dumbass! And you may have a point.
On the contrary, quite the opposite I like playing with double negatives accurately.Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
dhope wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:My point is - you can harp on about how it's all cushy between the tories and the City, but in this instance it was a Labour idea and Labour would have done the same thing. So are you going to have a moan about them being cushy with the City too?
Pretty much.
The point I guess I was making was that it's no surprise, since we definitely know the City loves the tories.
At least, in the office I sit they do. And the people I meet in the bars round here ... etc etc
I'd also suggest that Labour is likely to be a little more hostile to the City in future - since i think many of the Blarites, let alone those further left, feel they gave the City a good chance and they spoiled it.
Not from my experience, as someone that works at an investment bank. Seems to be a fairly even/healthy mix of posh toffs and scummy students (naturally there's no middle ground).
Tories love the tories certainly. If by 'the City' you mean tories that work in the City then yes.
/Tautology0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:As usual, you can't expect journos to do a detailed analysis - even if they did understand it, they've got a story to sell.
from the draft proposal itself:Da Government wrote:2.16 The Government will extend the opt-in exemption regime for large and medium companies to all countries and territories, including those with which the UK has no tax treaty. The Government notes that this goes beyond the foreign branch exemption regimes of many other countries.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/corpora ... xation.pdf
Current rules may have a lower limit...[/quote]
Many - not all so, Mr Guardian journo made an incorrect statement, didn't he. But the protection against artificial diversion of profits is still there. If you read section 2.22 of the link you found, you'll see that."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
rjsterry wrote:As a confirmed lefty Guardian reader, even I take Monbiot's stuff with a pinch of salt. Bottom line is what net effect will it have on UK tax receipts from medium-sized and large corporations - i.e. will we the government be even more short of money than they were? As Stevo 666 has some knowledge of this part of the world IIRC, what does he think?
It's usually a trade off of some sort over time and between taxes - by making the UK more friendly towards big/international business they hope that more of them locate here (or at least stop leaving!)which increases things like income tax and NI receipts and also VAT when the people they employ here go spend. Also over time, if the level of UK activity increases due to this, UK corporation tax receipts may increase. Which they hope offsets any short term losses in corporate tax. In the end it depends on forecasts - so sometimes it's a bet.
However as you can see, places like Hong Kong and Switzerland have hardly beggared themselves by consistently imposing low tax rates on companies...."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:rjsterry wrote:As a confirmed lefty Guardian reader, even I take Monbiot's stuff with a pinch of salt. Bottom line is what net effect will it have on UK tax receipts from medium-sized and large corporations - i.e. will we the government be even more short of money than they were? As Stevo 666 has some knowledge of this part of the world IIRC, what does he think?
It's usually a trade off of some sort over time and between taxes - by making the UK more friendly towards big/international business they hope that more of them locate here (or at least stop leaving!)which increases things like income tax and NI receipts and also VAT when the people they employ here go spend. Also over time, if the level of UK activity increases due to this, UK corporation tax receipts may increase. Which they hope offsets any short term losses in corporate tax. In the end it depends on forecasts - so sometimes it's a bet.
However as you can see, places like Hong Kong and Switzerland have hardly beggared themselves by consistently imposing low tax rates on companies....[/quote]
No, they raise revenue through other avenues of taxation.Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
Think how stupid the average person is.......
half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.0 -
dilemna wrote:
No, they raise revenue through other avenues of taxation.
UK - link here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_receipts/tax-receipts-and-taxpayers.pdf
The UK corporation tax take was less than 10% of the total tax take in the last reported tax year
Hong Kong: link here: http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/abo/rev.htm
The HK corporation tax take was over 40% of the total tax take in the last reported tax year.
So you're wrong, HK makes more revenue from corporate tax than any other form of tax - unlike the UK.
As I mentioned before before - if you lower the corporate tax rate and make the tax environment more friendly, perversely it often increases the tax receipts over time as businesses come to your country. Unfortunately a lot of people just don't get it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's an economic inducement to lock in the banks so they will be less able to play the threatening-to-leave tactic when the Government attempts some other thing that they don't like, such as the current "fury" over levies on bonuses.
Now the Government can argue there's little pure economic reason to relocate the businesses to Switzerland or wherever.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:As I mentioned before before - if you lower the corporate tax rate and make the tax environment more friendly, perversely it often increases the tax receipts over time as businesses come to your country. Unfortunately a lot of people just don't get it.
Ditto the argument for flat tax. But can you imagine the roar of lycra being twisted were the fascists to suggest such a thing!0 -
"transfer of wealth from the poor"
Oxymoron innit?--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Stevo 666 wrote:As I mentioned before before - if you lower the corporate tax rate and make the tax environment more friendly, perversely it often increases the tax receipts over time as businesses come to your country. Unfortunately a lot of people just don't get it.
Worked for Ireland.0 -
dhope wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:W1 wrote:My point is - you can harp on about how it's all cushy between the tories and the City, but in this instance it was a Labour idea and Labour would have done the same thing. So are you going to have a moan about them being cushy with the City too?
Pretty much.
The point I guess I was making was that it's no surprise, since we definitely know the City loves the tories.
At least, in the office I sit they do. And the people I meet in the bars round here ... etc etc
I'd also suggest that Labour is likely to be a little more hostile to the City in future - since i think many of the Blarites, let alone those further left, feel they gave the City a good chance and they spoiled it.
Not from my experience, as someone that works at an investment bank. Seems to be a fairly even/healthy mix of posh toffs and scummy students (naturally there's no middle ground).
Tories love the tories certainly. If by 'the City' you mean tories that work in the City then yes.
/Tautology
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12401049
Told ya!0