Frames / bikes with disc mounts / brakes

Jamey

Disclaimer: I've decided that I'd like my next commuting bike to have disc brakes and my mind is made up so i don't want to debate the pros and cons in this thread. I know lots of people think disc brakes on a road-going bike are pointless and there are many opinions on the matter but I don't want this thread to turn into another discussion about whether disc brakes are worthwhile so if you're of the opinion that they're pointless there's probably no point reading any further. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I think it's a fair request. If you want to debate disc brakes then I'll happily join in the discussion in another thread if you want to start one and send me the link. Thank you.

Question 1: Apart from the Kinesis Decade Tripster, are there any other road-style framesets that have disc mounts? I know about the Cotic Roadrat but I need a frame that will take normal derailleur gears and the Roadrat is only set up for hub gears or SS/fixed so it's no use.

Question 2: Which pre-built bikes are worth looking at when it comes to road-going, disc braked bikes? It doesn't have to be drop bars, I'll consider flat bars but I don't want hydraulic discs as they're too much faff, I just want cable-pull ones, preferably Avid BBs, so that rules out the Boardman.

Question 3: Given that almost all frames / bikes will have normal cable stops, how easy is it to drill them out to accept full-length outers yourself? Or, alternatively, is it the sort of thing most bike shops can do fairly easily / cheaply?

I was looking into getting a custom frame made by various people, including Roastie's venture back when he was starting it up, but unfortunately that's going to be too expensive now so I need to look at off-the-peg bikes and frames.

Down the Road

You will NOT need the power of dics on the road. Limiting factor will be contact area. You simply do not have enough rubber in contact to harness the power of discs.

the road caliper brake is basically unchanged in 25 years - Why? It is perfect for the job

And yes I have ridden bikes with discs and STI levers and would have to say they do not stop that well

Jamey

Jesus Christ

Jimfrandisco

It's not very clear on the Cotic website, but the Roadrat does have drop-outs that you can bolt in that allow you to run a rear derailleur - http://www.18bikes.co.uk/news.php?articleshow=110

But difficult to find any close ups of what that drop out looks like.

good luck

Stuey01

Down the Road wrote:

You will NOT need the power of dics on the road. Limiting factor will be contact area. You simply do not have enough rubber in contact to harness the power of discs.

the road caliper brake is basically unchanged in 25 years - Why? It is perfect for the job

And yes I have ridden bikes with discs and STI levers and would have to say they do not stop that well

hahaha - reading fail.

Jamey,
the Kona Honky Inc ticks your boxes I think. Steel frame, carbon fork, drop bars, cable discs. I had a look at one recently when I was looking at a new winter roadie. Bit on the heavy side though. 2010 models may still be available at a discount, Evans had it at £850.

For framesets, Cotic X? it's their cyclocross frame and has disc mounts.

You can run derailleur gears on a road rat, though I think it is a bit more faff getting the wheel out with the sliding dropouts.

Buckled_Rims

Croix der fer ticks most of the boxes, and one has been ridden around the world in record time!

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/just-in-genesis-croix-de-fer-23959

Surfr

I'm looking at the Pompetamine for steel-singlespeed-disc-drop-bar commuting. Alfine options if you want gears. You can run a mech with the addition of a hanger on the rear hub I think. I've seen it done on someone's pompino tourer.

Jamey

Great stuff, thank you.

Both Cotic X and Honky Inc look good but looking at them has made me realise I forgot to say that I was also looking for full rack and mudguard mounts (commuting, innit) and I can't see any on the X or Honky, unless I'm being blind?

Bi50N

I recently bought an On-One Pompetamine Versa Pro for all-year commuting / light touring. It has:

Drop bars
Alfine 8 speed hub gear
Mechanical disc brakes
Steel frame
Full guard / rack mounts

I am incredibly happy with it, sounds a perfect match for your list of requirements too

Whilst deliberating, I also looked at the Genesis Day01 and heard good things about the Kona and the Cotic, but the On-One seemed the best package.

They also do a flat-barred version with the new Alfine 11

Stuey01

The Honky Inc is supposed to have one set of mounts, so you can mount a rack and mudguards sharing it, BUT, when I had a look at the bike in Evans they were not in evidence... strange as the Honky Tonk on which it is based definately has guard mounts (I seen 'em, with my own eyes).

Stuey01

Genesis Flight series... for a flat bar option.

Jamey

Thanks, I do need normal mech gears, unfortunately, otherwise both the Pomp and the Day01 would be good choices.

I like the look of the Cotic X a lot (like bright colours, me) and given that I plan to build my own wheels it makes sense to get a frameset rather than a whole bike but I can't see any rack or guard mounts in the photos and that would rule it out for me, annoyingly.

Got to have full mounts and normal mech gears as well as the discs, which is where the Kinesis Decade Tripster wins.

Unless the Honky Inc does have full mounts? Anyone know (doesn't say on the webpage and not clear from photos)?

Edit: cheers Stuey. I might have to take a closer look sometime.

Stuey01

Combine this with forward thinking disc brake option, and super practical mudguard mounting eyes and you have your perfect winter partner-in-grime.

From Cotic website re: the X.

You can see the mudguard eyes in some of the detail piccies. Don't know if you'll be able to get a rack on there as well though.

Underscore

Salsa Vaya frameset?

andrewjoseph

I don't know your budget, but Burls Ti custom frameset and fork may be cheaper than many others in the UK.

He also does off the peg Ti frames.

When I was looking last year he was cheaper by far (for Ti at least).

You can have the stops you want. I wanted full length outers and he made the stops to suit.

If you go off the peg, I have full length outers on my mtb and use the traditional stops to ziptie the gear cable neatly into place.

Jamey

Salsa Vaya looks good, and even has the inboard disc mounting like the Tripster, thank you.

Shame it's brown but not the end of the world.

pdw

Stuey01 wrote:

Down the Road wrote:

You will NOT need the power of dics on the road. Limiting factor will be contact area. You simply do not have enough rubber in contact to harness the power of discs.

hahaha - reading fail.

Not only reading fail, but physics fail too. To a first approximation, force from the tyres is independent of contact area. It's not actually quite that simple, but the friction available from a road tyre on tarmac is way more than you'll see from an MTB tyre on just about any off road surface.

The limiting factor on a dry road on any bike is how far you can get your weight back: whatever brakes you have, you'll go over the bars before you lock the front wheel.

Anyway, I guess I've been sucked into the argument you didn't want to have, so I'll answer some of your questions to make up for it:

(1) I did this search recently and eventually settled on the Tripster. The other options I looked at were the Croix de Fer and the Singular Peregrine.

(3) I don't know about drilling out the stops, but I found compression of the outers to be a bit of a pain when setting up BB7s on my Tripster. Road levers don't pull a lot of cable, so a little bit of housing compression can quickly cause a problem, so keeping the outer runs short helps things. If you're worried about keeping cables clean, have a look at something like SRAM Flak Jackets that have separate covers to run between the stops.

Cuchulainn

How roady do you want it to be? I saw you mention the boardman frames. I've been really impressed with my Spec Crosstrail. Reviews tend to be a bit "what exactly does it want to do", but I love riding mine. In top gear I get about 25mph on the gps with no trouble, tend to cruise at 17 or so, the big tyres soak up the crap road surfaces here in Cheltenham and Bristol, I like being able to see over traffic with the flat bars and the big frame means it still handles nicely with loads on the pannier racks I fitted. Think the main downside for me is the sus front forks - I ride with mine locked out. However, on a commuter with the amount of stuff I tend to have on me it's not the weight of them that gets to me, more the unnecessary additional mechanics. Brakes are BB5's by the way.

The Rookie

I commute on a Carrera Gryphon on discs, built from a bare (boot fair) frame, the Gryphon isn't sparkling but more than competant, although the standard cable discs are uninspiring I'm told (mine aren't standard).

The Boardman Hybrid's are good disc braked flat bar bikes to consider, ranging from metal fork/cable to carbon/hydraulic.

A Friend at work just got a Raleigh Airlite SF 3.0 (Quad discs, Tiagra groupset, external BB, rigida rims, carbon forks) for £324 as a no brainer VFM disc braked flat barred hybrid for commuting. (RRP was £750, its last years model now so can be found for £550 which is more than reasonable, he got a good deal I think)

As far as I'm aware you can only have discs and drops if you use cable discs for road levers (rare), so BB5 or BB7 from Avid (which stop another friends Touring Tandem so can be deemed effective!) would be my only real choice.

Beware of between stay disc mounts, over this winter we had some frozen cables reported on here as its much more likely to allow water in with a horizontal and normal near vertical cable.

Simon

Jamey

Thanks everyone.

This has all been good stuff, however I think it's serving to bring me back to the first choice - Kinesis Decade Tripster.

TBH if it wasn't for the Tripster's integrated headset I probably wouldn't have even posted this thread, but hey, that's a whole other can of internet forum debate worms.

tomb353

would second the coment above on cable compression, keep meaning to replace the rear brake cable outer on my tripster with low compression kit.

Jamey

Yeah, been reading a few pages on setting up BB7s today and several mention compressionless housing.

Is it quite easy to come by? How much dearer is it?

pdw

When I set up my BB7s a week ago, the brakes were hopeless. I could pull the levers all the way to the bars and still not lock up the back / endo with the front. This was brand new pads on brand new discs, and I was expecting bedding in to make a bit of a difference but not a huge amount.

I bought a set of Flak Jackets from CRC for twenty something quid, and to be honest, they made no discernable difference to the outers compressing. I didn't bother to do the back and they feel pretty much the same.

What has made a huge difference is a week's riding and getting them properly bedded in - they're now working extremely well.

Proper compressionless cables like Nokons might make more of a difference to the feel, but I'd get the brakes properly bedded in on normal cables before shelling out extra money. Just make sure you take care over the cable cuts, and take the time to clean up the ends.

The integrated headset was the one thing I had against the Tripster, but whilst I believe the concerns are valid, I suspect they're overstated, particularly for a road bike.

getonyourbike

hydraulics are actually less fuss than you think, once they're set up can you leave them but on cables discs you have to adjust them to compensate for pad wear which hydraulics do automatically.

The Rookie

Maybe, but to be honest a 30 second tweek every month with an allen key isn't a killer!

Simon

tomb353

david hembrow has a bit on using compressionless outer on his blog its about recumbants but same principles apply, plus sells the outer on his ducth bike bits site.