ooo err Brompton or a Boris?

iPete

My office is moving to an akward part of London, so on the days that I choose to go to the pub and not do the 20 mile ride in, I'll be relying on Boris bikes or busses :shock:

Suddenly a folder makes sense, cuts my 20 min walk to the station down and makes the 1.7 mile ride from waterloo a doddle.. how do they ride & how easy it is to get a Boris out during rush hour and back again, enough docks etc?

I'd be sacrificing a new carbon road bike and have to sell my 'ice bike'. On a plus it would mean any house move to London or flat move wouldn't make storage an issue... hmmm

Brompton would be on C2W and a Boris is £45 for the year!

BUT is it wrong to own a Brompton in your mid 20s?

ride_whenever

Get a kansi, not quite as good a fold, but a far far better ride. Go for the 3 speed version.

t4tomo

Vote for Brompton, A boris bike rides like a pig plus doesn't help your home to station journey.

For the relatively short hops you've got to ride, you can put up with the supposed inferior Brompton rideability* for its conveniance. Nothing folds as small or as easily, which is the main thing you want when trying to hop onto a crowded commuter train.

* back to rideability, they are a differnet feel to a regular bike, but the ride and handle very well when you are used to them. They are also pretty nippy on a city hop due to relative light weight and decent components. A lot of people try them once, it feels different and then they brand them with "inferior rideability".

3 gear version is heaps enough, if you're young and fit get the bigger front chain ring for extra speed. 1st gear on that is well low enough for most hills.


I was in my 30's when I got mine but never regreted it. Its quicker to fold up the Brompton and get on the train than it is to lock up your commuter bike at the staition.

Origamist

iPete wrote:

Brompton would be on C2W and a Boris is £45 for the year!

BUT is it wrong to own a Brompton in your mid 20s?

Of course it's wrong to own a Brompton if you were born in the 1980s. I made the same mistake and look what happended to me - a wanky user name on various cycling fora, a weird interest in big chain rings and small sprockets, a fear of seat-tube cracks, and a smug satisfaction in folding the thing quickly in front of an expectant audience.

The simple answer is to get both a Brompton and a Bojo bike fob. Best/worst of both worlds.

hatbeard

I'll no longer be in my 20s in june and I'm toying with the idea of a folder for practicality.

On sunday my girlfriend needed to catch the train from stratford back to essex and normally she would just hop on the dlr from greenwich straight there but due to engineering works on the stratford part of the line it was made much more difficult and not being familiar with london public transport she didn't want to brave the buses on her own.

that day I had been planning to pop up to the rapha sale in brick lane and then run an errand which required me to go up to hackney wick which I would have been able to do no problems if I hopped on my bike after she left to get on the dlr if normal operations were in place. instead we had to get the dlr to bank, walk to brick lane, walk back to liverpool street, get the central line to stratford for her to get her train, I then had to get a bus to hackney wick, walk to my destination, walk back, get a bus back to stratford, take central line to bank and finally the dlr back to greenwich.

with a folder I could have taken it with me on all of the various trains/tubes I had to use to get up there with girlfriend in tow and then on the way home I could have hopped on the bike where it would have been about three times as fast and I wouldn't have been subjected to the misery that was getting on a crowded bus out of/into stratford not to mention saved me about £4 in oyster fares.

also for me a folder would make a passable option for my girlfriend to ride when she's at mine so we could both go out shopping, run errands around town without me needing to keep a girlfriend sized bike in my flat as well for the odd occassion she would use it.

I doubt I'll ever go 'full brompton' but for filling in the gaps where a full size bike is not practical I think they have their place.

iPete

Thanks all, some very useful insight & the kansi 3twenty looks nice.

I think folding size is very important and will decide what I might go for, ideally I'll be able to sit on a train and have it under my feet! Its also a cool thought that I could take it away with me pretty much anywhere.

I pass a few Bromptons on my commute, its not about the bike but they don't look to slow, I'd deffo opt for the bigger gearing.

Does a quirky paint job make it acceptable for an 80s child? Also whats the deal with pedals, any reason I couldn't stick 1 sided SPDs on?

Clever Pun

Bromptons are great and really damned useful.

Also a pub bike you don't need to lock up... before when setting off after the pub though. I recently pulled a great wheelie off a pavement lost the bottom wheel and mashed my face.. got 5 stitches, a nice little reminder to stick to the basics

you certainly can stick spd's on although they don't fold so it'll be a little wider when folded

iPete

So you don't recommend I take it down the bmx park?

Watching them being folded on youtube is very convincing, clever little f****rs!

Mark Elvin

I love the Bromptom design, one bike I have always promised myself I'll buy.

t4tomo

you could put an Spd on the right pedal and leave the folder one on the left, but might be a little odd. for the length of journey, I'd just wear a pair of trainers.

I normally put my brommie next to the seat and use its seat as an armrest!

secretsam

iPete wrote:

BUT is it wrong to own a Brompton in your mid 20s?

Bromptons and all other foldies are wrong and evil, end of

Clever Pun

iPete wrote:

So you don't recommend I take it down the bmx park?

Watching them being folded on youtube is very convincing, clever little f****rs!

not after 8 hours drinking... no

flicksta

I relented last year after years of Brompton scoffing after my train company took a hard line against full size folders. It's got piddly wheels, so getting decent pace out of it is not great, I'm about to go from 50:12 SS to 54:12.

Still I have to say it ride's very well for what is a bike with essentially no adjustment potential. Sure there are things I would prefer to be different, but it goes on the train, in the car and everywhere easily. I have a 6.5 mile commute each way every day and it's fine for that. I've done 15 miles on it no problem.

mroli

Just to add on this - the Brompton is no 1 for folding size, is English, made in Chiswick and really good. I don't know about the Kansi too much - but it looks very much like a Dahon - I've got a MuSL and they are almost good enough for daily use and do a massive range of bikes for all occassions.

Purveyors of cheap SRAM goods Fudges Cycle Store carry the Dahons and the Bromptons and do good prices on them - worth a wander round if you're seriously interested - great for the comparison.

You won't get massive discounts on Bromptons though - they control their pricing pretty hard.

iPete

Thanks, didn't realise it was Chiswick, pass through on my commute!

t4tomo

originally designed / conceived in a bedroom overlooking Brompton Oratory in South Ken. Have never moved far from its west london roots.

shouldbeinbed

If it's foldability there isn't an argument. Brompton every time. I had an interesting Mcr to Blackpool foldy battle a few years back. Scrawny lad on a 3 speed brommy & chunky me on my Birdy. Had a bit of a chat and showed my respect, he was fine with the comfort & limited gearing for a lumpy 60 miles and regularly commuted 20 miles on it.

ride_whenever

On the kansi fold, it really isn't much bigger than a brompton at all, although the fold itself isn't quite as clever and it is a little trickier to get it to stay put.

It isn't a dahon clone, it was designed by a bmxer and then the folding was done almost as an afterthought. As such it rides really really really well, almost like a mtb. Try to take one for a test ride and absolutely hammer it. We have them in the shop and basically the manager bought one (despite being a stalwart anti-folding man) and he rides it like a hooligan. Jumping speed humps, wheelies etc. I've ridden a lot of folders (brompton, various dahons, birdy, moutlon), and the kansi is just something else...

On the spd front, I believe there is a company who does qr spd pedals.

stuaff

ride_whenever wrote:

On the kansi fold, it really isn't much bigger than a brompton at all, although the fold itself isn't quite as clever and it is a little trickier to get it to stay put.

It isn't a dahon clone, it was designed by a bmxer and then the folding was done almost as an afterthought. As such it rides really really really well, almost like a mtb. Try to take one for a test ride and absolutely hammer it. We have them in the shop and basically the manager bought one (despite being a stalwart anti-folding man) and he rides it like a hooligan. Jumping speed humps, wheelies etc. I've ridden a lot of folders (brompton, various dahons, birdy, moutlon), and the kansi is just something else...

On the spd front, I believe there is a company who does qr spd pedals.

MKS do removable clipless pedals (the Cube model)- they're two-bolt fitting, but are not SPD compatible, the cleats are different. Both pedals and cleats thankfully available in the UK.
The Kansi models certainly look interesting- the fold seems very similar in terms of size & speed to the Dahon equivalents, not a bad thing, would certainly look at one if I was in the market.

iPete

This'll be a tough decision if I go with it! Its hard to justify such a spend on a folder.

The Kansi 3 speed does look like much more fun to ride but the SL2-X looks like it'll be a little friendlier to carry around and squeeze onto sardine trains. The ability to strap a bag on the front of the Brompton could swing it but if I'm going to spend that much, need to be sure I'll be using it for years!

Best try and get a test ride in really...

wgwarburton

Hi,
A minor addition- I have relatives with 3-speed Bromptons that they use a lot. I've borrowed them occasionally for runs to the shops, takeaway etc and I found the top gear on the three speed to be almost unuseably high- Spinning it out would be a challenge given the upright riding position, and small wheels.

I'd like to have one but I don't feel I'd use it enough to justify the cost.

Cheers,
W.

iPete

Thanks, I spot a Brompton most mornings, cruises along nicely at about 16mph, a bit slow for my liking should I be cycling in rage so I'll have a google into gear inches and see how it corresponds with my Allez double..

edit: Happily cruise on my roadie at 18-22mph on the small front ring (34)/ highest back ring (12) * 27 = 76.5

Now I need to find the Bromptons 2 speed gearing, Evans says 54t up front...

t4tomo

ride_whenever wrote:

On the kansi fold, it really isn't much bigger than a brompton at all, although the fold itself isn't quite as clever and it is a little trickier to get it to stay put.

The Kansai folds way bigger than a Brommie, for a start its 20" wheels vs 16" and it only folds in half. The Brommie effectively folds into 3. The brommie also folds into a stable "package" you can leave in train doorway or next to your seat unlike most other folders that need to be leaned against something or topple over or unfold themselve if knocked - which really p***es off fellow rail users.

I found the top gear on the three speed to be almost unuseably high- Spinning it out would be a challenge given the upright riding position, and small wheels.

Not an issue for me and I have the bigger front chain ring. I'm in 3rd most of the way through London, drop into 2nd at junctions / setting off.

wgwarburton

t4tomo wrote:

Me! wrote:

I found the top gear on the three speed to be almost unuseably high- Spinning it out would be a challenge given the upright riding position, and small wheels.

Not an issue for me and I have the bigger front chain ring. I'm in 3rd most of the way through London, drop into 2nd at junctions / setting off.

OK, fair enough. I think the standard top is 85", the optional higher range 91.5"... for me that's too high (Top on my geared touring bike, which is more stable on a descent than a Brommie, is about 88), but it's a personal thing... I'm just warning the OP that if he's a spinner he might find the same issue!!

Cheers,
W.

iPete

Warburton, I'm new to gear inches, not sure how correct this is...

Happily cruise on my roadie at 18-22mph on the small front ring (34)/ highest back ring (12) * 27 = 76.5? I usually use the bigger front ring but not sure what the rear ring is, hence using the calc above.

Origamist

iPete wrote:

Thanks, I spot a Brompton most mornings, cruises along nicely at about 16mph, a bit slow for my liking should I be cycling in rage so I'll have a google into gear inches and see how it corresponds with my Allez double..

edit: Happily cruise on my roadie at 18-22mph on the small front ring (34)/ highest back ring (12) * 27 = 76.5

Now I need to find the Bromptons 2 speed gearing, Evans says 54t up front...

The stock set-up (54/12-16) with the 2 speed Brompton will give you approx 74 and 55 G.I. - so you'll be fine.

iPete

Thanks & lastly, does the B-spoke package cost any more than picking one off the shelf with the same spec? Want to mix the colours up, maybe orange/white or black/white..

Origamist

iPete wrote:

Thanks & lastly, does the B-spoke package cost any more than picking one off the shelf with the same spec? Want to mix the colours up, maybe orange/white or black/white..

Changing the colour spec bumps up the price (by about £50 IIRC).

t4tomo

From what I recall I don't think so, its just you are unlikely to find anything but standard colours "off the shelf". if you used Bspoke and specced it same a s a standard model you'd get same price I think.

The advantage of off the shelf is you don't have to wait for it to be built for you. Mine took about 8 weeks I think but it was soon after the titanium bits were new out so demand was quite high.

I'd advise to go with the S-bars, gives a more direct feel to the ride and less upright riding position.

iPete

Thanks, took a S2L out for a spin yesterday, was a right hoot, the gearing was perfect, put a smile on my face!

Need to get back to reality though, I can walk into Evans tomorrow and pick up a 2010 S2L (£530) or S2L-X (£940) BUT if I want to B-spoke and get exactly what I want (Orange with firm suspension and racing tyres) the price is £1315 :shock:
http://www.evanscycles.com/product_docu ... r-form.pdf

For an extra £4.99 I could in theory get my dream carbon road bike.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/focus-cayo-20-u ... mpact-2011

Eurgh. Might go for the 2011 S2L-X as they offer it in white (£1008) but thats still a tough sum to swallow for what won't be a main bike.