is cycling really greener than driving?

Pep

One of the many reasons I love cycling is that is greener than driving. At least this is what I thought, but I'm almost having second thoughts.

In cycling the energy comes from food, and producing food is very energy wasteful: deforestation, fertilizer, transportation and storage, preservation, cooking, irrigation, ecc.

In driving the energy comes from fossil. And you can put more people in the same car for the same fuel.

I will not change my cucling/driving habits based on this, but I think is worthed a debate ...

rick_chasey

The energy made to make a car far outweighs anything else.

The energy spent maknig a bike far outweighs any expenditure you use on the bike to fuel it.

Blue Meanie

Fossil Fuel comes from err, fossils! Meaning that that carbon was locked away (millions of) years ago. The carbon released from food is months old.

Pep

Food production, delivery, storage, cooking, etc, consumes much fossil.

I love cycling. And I love everything about food. And I hate cars.
But I'm less convinced about greenery.

bompington

You obviously need to make the ultimate sacrifice for the planet - stop eating food.

edhornby

consider how much food you'd eat if you didn't ride your bike..... the increase in consumption is your carbon footprint

the increase in food consumption probably isn't as much as you'd think, hence why the carbon impact of a bike is super low - and as Rick Chasey says, think about the impact of building a car; mining the metals, producing the plastics, energy to run the car plant, extra food for a cyclist is a gnats poo in comparison

I will not change my cycling/driving habits based on this, but I think is worth blathering on anyway

verloren

Here, have some numbers: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... nt-cycling

Note that even the worst case there is probably still better than driving, though not by much.

ride_whenever

If you want to try and be rigorous then you can work on a driver using around 3 Kcal per mile (driving at 30mph) and a cyclist expending 60 odd (rough guesses, rounded to make the maths simpler) if we fuel both the rider and the driver on bacon (going on the guardian numbers) as a suitably delicious fuel...

The driver emits 10g co2 versus the cyclists 200g. however a 21mpg car will emit about 6kg of co2 in the same time. Initial setup costs are somewhat irrelevant given that the cyclist is an order of magnitude more carbon efficient.

The startup costs are likely to be much higher for the car though.

Pep

verloren wrote:

Here, have some numbers: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... nt-cycling

Note that even the worst case there is probably still better than driving, though not by much.

Wow, that's really an answer.
But how much can one trust those numbers?

verloren

You don't have to trust them at all, just work it out for yourself.

rake

what a load of bs.. what about the other chemicals in the exhaust, its not just co2. what about the heat wasted into the air, about 70%. you also need to eat food if your not riding.what about building and shipping cars.

mattshrops

face.. bovvered?

dilemna

Yes.

pst88

verloren wrote:

Here, have some numbers: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... nt-cycling

Note that even the worst case there is probably still better than driving, though not by much.

Well that article's a load of toss. I suppose people who drive cars don't eat at all do they? Here's a shocking revelation: on the days I drive to work I eat exactly the same amount of food as the days I ride to work. So on the days I ride I only use the energy from the food, on the days I drive I use the same amount of energy PLUS the energy from burning petrol. QED.

JonEdwards

I do most of my driving going interesting places to ride my bike. (hell, if I didn't ride bikes, I wouldn't need a car full stop)

Hence bikes are not green in the slightest. Fun , but not green.

mattshrops

which is greener- a dark green car or a light green car :?

eltonioni

People who make petrol (et al) also eat.

MichaelW

And dont forget to maintain your health and fitness you will have to drive to an air-conditioned shed (AKA Gym)where you can pedal a bicycle that is bolted to the ground OR run on an electrically propelled piece of road.

In my experience most drivers eat more than me (and it shows).

tebbit

How about the recycling of cars, about 80% is recyclable excluding oils in a really good car, so cycling is a lot greener, it would really change the Guardian numbers if they put in the carbon footprint of someone who grew their own vegetables and cycle to work.

lae

"How Bad Are Bananas" is a reasonably informative popular-science book on this topic.

It turns out that bananas, being shipped by boat rather than by plane, and not needing refridgeration or pesticides or artificial ripening, are actually a pretty eco-friendly food. So they're great for cycling. If you ate air-freighted asparagus grown in a warehouse under hotlamps then it'd be a different story.

Also, I'd think that driving an old car and using it for as long as possible is the greenest way to drive (electric cars run by green sources excepted). A modern car has a lot more energy embodied into it than an older car (although, obviously, the more miles you put on a car then the lower the material carbon output becomes as a proportion of the car's total carbon output), and by driving an old vehicle you're also saving a car from the scrapheap. A few years ago I used to have a Morris Minor that got 45mpg - as good as a modern saloon. And whilst 'tailpipe emissions' might be lower in a modern car due to catalytic converters, all a cat does is basically hold onto the emissions and transfer them to the processing site. Local emissions are lowered but global emissions remain the same.

And older cars are easier to convert to biofuel (either biodiesel, ethanol or cooking oil) than modern cars are. Although I suspect that if biofuels become more popular, manufacturers will start offering biofuel compatible cars as factory options. That's a good thing though!

lae

I clicked on the Guardian article - it's from the same book that I recommended.

Jez mon

lae wrote:

And older cars are easier to convert to biofuel (either biodiesel, ethanol or cooking oil) than modern cars are. Although I suspect that if biofuels become more popular, manufacturers will start offering biofuel compatible cars as factory options. That's a good thing though!

Not, sure about that one, takes a lot of land to grow the fuel, and globally, we don't have that much spare land/food. What's needed is a good electric car, with some cold fusion! Neither of which exist currently

shouldbeinbed

I don't give a monkeys, I ride to save my waistline not the planet

Smokin Joe

Who gives a f*ck.

Just do it.

ride_whenever

lae wrote:

And whilst 'tailpipe emissions' might be lower in a modern car due to catalytic converters, all a cat does is basically hold onto the emissions and transfer them to the processing site.

Not quite true, as you get fewer of the more harmful emissions, they tend to lower the proportion of incompletely oxidised emissions, which are generally stronger greenhouse gasses than carbon dioxide.

mattshrops

Smokin Joe wrote:

Who gives a f*ck.

Just do it.

Hey smokin joe someone ought to use that as a marketing catchphrase, well half of it

EKIMIKE

To be honest i'm with Smokin Joe and shouldbeinbed here.

Equally, i think the question is far too simplified. Some serious economics would be in order to figure it out. In the end not worth worrying about. We all know the answer. And it's nothing to do with economics - I've never once been riding along thinking how 'green' i am.

deptfordmarmoset

This won't really contribute anything to the debate but I stopped at this STOP sign today...I'm not really sure if it made me any greener though.

HadronCyclist

you still eat food if you drive.

Essex Man

Every weekend I go out on my bike, cycle 30 miles or so in a big circle and come back home again. That's me saving the planet then.

deptfordmarmoset

Essex Man wrote:

Every weekend I go out on my bike, cycle 30 miles or so in a big circle and come back home again. That's me saving the planet then.

Hey, we could make a film about how ultimately recycled you are! It would only need a couple of trucks for the tracking shots and the BBC would be happy to provide a helicopter for the arial shots.