The quiet peleton
I think you can compare the relative silence from pro's regarding Bertie and LA to that of people in the music industry to Michael Jackson in "93. I don't remember hearing a great deal of dissent. My point is that this isn't a 'cycling thing'.
It may have been the case in the past that the peloton was 'all for one and one for all' but nowadays I wonder if things have changed.
It may have been the case in the past that the peloton was 'all for one and one for all' but nowadays I wonder if things have changed.
'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
0
Comments
-
-
Inappropriate behaviour...'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0
-
-
there are no guilty parties in my analogy that's why I used it'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0
-
:?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.0 -
ok the guilt or innocence is not the issue - my point was
This silence is not confined to cycling but also raising the broader point of whether it is really sinister or just a group dynamic'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
Isn't it more just a case of not wanting to get involved?
No-one really knows what's going on - from what Landis said he barely knew what was occuring when he tested positive - so why risk landing in hot water?
It's just self preservation, not anything more sinister.0 -
personnaly I also agree that it isn't sinister'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0
-
Rick Chasey wrote::?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.
It was not proven to have been completely wrong , he gave the family of his accuser at the time over 20 million dollars to avoid a legal case so you can draw your own conclusions from that.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Rick Chasey wrote::?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.
It was not proven to have been completely wrong , he gave the family of his accuser at the time over 20 million dollars to avoid a legal case so you can draw your own conclusions from that.
From what I heard, the accusor gave a description of jackson's penis, and that proved to be a very wrong description. The impression I get is a particularly episode of someone praying on a very rich but mentally unstable man who would rather throw $20 million away than go through the stress of a trial.
Either way, it's not a comparable annecdote.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Rick Chasey wrote::?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.
It was not proven to have been completely wrong , he gave the family of his accuser at the time over 20 million dollars to avoid a legal case so you can draw your own conclusions from that.
The conclusion I draw is that I wouldn't take $20 million dollars from a man who had got their nob out in front of my son (if I had one). So I always assumed it was someone trying to make a bit of cash.
I think the group dynamic in the peloton is nothing like the music industry. I'd use Oasis as an example of this. They slagged off nearly every other group that existed and were still able to make a lot of money whilst initially being signed to a relatively minor label. Such a scenario would be impossible in cycling because you wouldn't win any races.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Moray Gub wrote:Rick Chasey wrote::?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.
It was not proven to have been completely wrong , he gave the family of his accuser at the time over 20 million dollars to avoid a legal case so you can draw your own conclusions from that.
From what I heard, the accusor gave a description of jackson's penis, and that proved to be a very wrong description. The impression I get is a particularly episode of someone praying on a very rich but mentally unstable man who would rather throw $20 million away than go through the stress of a trial.
As you do eh !Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:From what I heard, the accusor gave a description of jackson's penis, and that proved to be a very wrong description. The impression I get is a particularly episode of someone praying on a very rich but mentally unstable man who would rather throw $20 million away than go through the stress of a trial.
As you do eh !
A 'very wrong' description!!!! The mind boggles.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Rick Chasey wrote::?
From what I can see they seem not remotely related.
Cycling's a sport with a well known history of organised doping, which it has never really shaken. The latest doping accusations are nothing new or surprising given the history, and indeed, are probably expected.
The Michael Jackson thing was pretty different. It was someone accusing him of child sexual abuse which is a) plenty worse and b) proven to be completely wrong.
It was not proven to have been completely wrong , he gave the family of his accuser at the time over 20 million dollars to avoid a legal case so you can draw your own conclusions from that.
Yep - Jacko was a kiddy fiddler like LA was a doper. Some things don't need to be proved in a court of law.
Shamon.0 -
I don't believe it, a few days away and I find that instead of arguing about Lance, Bertie and doping we're arguing about Whacko, quality this forum is. Earlier today I was looking at the very hotel where he dangled one of his kids over the balcony.
Come on though, he was a sad sod with no idea how to relate to adults, hence the child friends, but I don't for one moment think he was Garry Glitter.0 -
I think the analogy is appropriate - both involve huge amounts of money to make "allegations" go away. Whereas Jacko paid off the parents, Lance just got his Uncle Tom to pay-off Hein and Pat. The trouble for Bertie was that clearly all the alligences had already been "bought"Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
-
dougzz wrote:I don't believe it, a few days away and I find that instead of arguing about Lance, Bertie and doping we're arguing about Whacko, quality this forum is. Earlier today I was looking at the very hotel where he dangled one of his kids over the balcony.
Come on though, he was a sad sod with no idea how to relate to adults, hence the child friends, but I don't for one moment think he was Garry Glitter.
I think this he cant relate to adults line was a bit of smokescreen put out by his aides to cover up the basic fact on occasions he slept with young boys who were not his own children ............deeply disturbing .Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:
I think this he cant relate to adults line was a bit of smokescreen put out by his aides to cover up the basic fact on occasions he slept with young boys who were not his own children ............deeply disturbing .
But how can we really know Moray? He never tested positive for this in a court of law so how can you throw this accusation at him, I thought you didn't approve of the the court of public opinion. You can't have a pop at Whacko unless you have a pop at all the other similar losers out there with their entourages placing the stories to try and control public opinion.0 -
dougzz wrote:Moray Gub wrote:
I think this he cant relate to adults line was a bit of smokescreen put out by his aides to cover up the basic fact on occasions he slept with young boys who were not his own children ............deeply disturbing .
But how can we really know Moray? He never tested positive for this in a court of law so how can you throw this accusation at him, I thought you didn't approve of the the court of public opinion. You can't have a pop at Whacko unless you have a pop at all the other similar losers out there with their entourages placing the stories to try and control public opinion.
Too bad he's not with us any more, we could have sent dennis to sit down and have a beer with him. We'd have know for sure then.Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
Vitus Sentier VRS - 20170 -
Monty Dog wrote:I think the analogy is appropriate - both involve huge amounts of money to make "allegations" go away. Whereas Jacko paid off the parents, Lance just got his Uncle Tom to pay-off Hein and Pat. The trouble for Bertie was that clearly all the alligences had already been "bought"
You've just re-invented the analogy. Originally the comparison was about how few fellow musicians commented on his alleged kiddy-fiddling. Not about how he paid money to make things go away.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
Therefore I deduce that Filippo Simeoni and Jarvis Cocker are the same man and I claim my £5.0
-
What a strange thread“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
-
dougzz wrote:Moray Gub wrote:
I think this he cant relate to adults line was a bit of smokescreen put out by his aides to cover up the basic fact on occasions he slept with young boys who were not his own children ............deeply disturbing .
But how can we really know Moray? He never tested positive for this in a court of law so how can you throw this accusation at him, I thought you didn't approve of the the court of public opinion. You can't have a pop at Whacko unless you have a pop at all the other similar losers out there with their entourages placing the stories to try and control public opinion.
He admitted he slept with children that were not his so right away he has a massive problem as in most societies that is not an acceptable thing to be doing and so the easy way out is to trot out the old he cant handle adults line which enabled some warped individuals to defend this behavhiour. Oh for sure he was great entertainer but behind all that was a dark dark individual and no matter how good he could dance and sing that should not detract from the kind of character he was.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0
